WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.000


00:00:20.472 --> 00:00:22.140
>> I'm andy hevesi.
I'm the CHAIRMAN Of the children

00:00:23.410 --> 00:00:25.477
and families committee of the
state assembly.

00:00:27.146 --> 00:00:29.481
I have the privilege to be
joined by my colleague and

00:00:30.550 --> 00:00:32.550
friend the ranking republican

00:00:35.554 --> 00:00:37.554
member on the committee marjorie

00:00:38.557 --> 00:00:40.557
byrnes.

00:00:40.594 --> 00:00:42.594
She drove 400 miles to get here

00:00:43.229 --> 00:00:45.731
and we will be doing follow-up
hearings and we thought it was

00:00:46.232 --> 00:00:47.432
important to start in new york
city.

00:00:51.300 --> 00:00:53.705
A couple rules of road.
Everybody is going to get a

00:00:54.173 --> 00:00:56.574
chance to say what they need to
say.
That is the purpose of the

00:00:57.176 --> 00:00:59.412
hearing and we are here and
broken protocols with the

00:00:59.412 --> 00:01:01.914
assembly.
We are not changing policy but

00:01:02.916 --> 00:01:05.484
in this case, we've changed the
order of the hearing a little
bit.

00:01:07.286 --> 00:01:09.589
We are giving everybody time to
speak more but there are rules

00:01:09.589 --> 00:01:12.230
of the road.
Let me go through it.

00:01:13.920 --> 00:01:15.293
The lawyers want me to make sure
that everybody is aware.

00:01:16.763 --> 00:01:17.997
First this is a safe comfortable
place.

00:01:19.132 --> 00:01:21.934
If anybody thinks this is the
appropriate time to heckle or

00:01:22.235 --> 00:01:24.970
protesting it's not.
We will ask you to leave if you

00:01:25.405 --> 00:01:28.140
do that immediately.
The reason is and I want to be

00:01:29.242 --> 00:01:31.242
clear, we want to give everybody

00:01:31.978 --> 00:01:34.613
a safe place a place to talk but
we are looking for policies.

00:01:36.490 --> 00:01:38.490
In my head I need to say I've

00:01:38.485 --> 00:01:40.485
heard that from another parent

00:01:41.540 --> 00:01:43.540
or maybe we need to keep the

00:01:44.390 --> 00:01:46.758
cycle going for MS. Byrnes and
our staff so we are learning

00:01:47.460 --> 00:01:49.460
from you as you speak.

00:01:49.695 --> 00:01:52.431
One more parameter for
everybody.
I'm going to read what the

00:01:52.933 --> 00:01:55.234
lawyers wrote me to read to you
you will appreciate it.

00:01:55.302 --> 00:01:58.370
The lawyers.
My friends.

00:01:59.706 --> 00:02:02.507
We are using today's testimony
to inform our policy decisions

00:02:02.909 --> 00:02:04.909
but the legislature and the

00:02:05.244 --> 00:02:07.244
hearing is not a forum to

00:02:07.714 --> 00:02:08.981
resolve or address individual
cases.

00:02:10.250 --> 00:02:13.119
We ask that witnesses share
relevant information, experience

00:02:13.453 --> 00:02:15.453
and perspectives without using

00:02:15.755 --> 00:02:17.823
the names of persons involved in
specific matters.

00:02:18.324 --> 00:02:20.324
So please do not tell me the

00:02:21.227 --> 00:02:23.227
name of your spouse or your case

00:02:23.529 --> 00:02:26.132
worker or somebody at acs and
that does not help and I will

00:02:27.167 --> 00:02:29.969
tell you why.
For those with want to

00:02:30.270 --> 00:02:33.239
understand, seven years ago I
was the CHAIRMAN Of the

00:02:33.740 --> 00:02:36.442
oversight committee and I did a
hearing after two kids were

00:02:38.112 --> 00:02:40.112
killed in the child welfare

00:02:40.346 --> 00:02:43.115
system and I was greener there
and we let people testify and

00:02:43.884 --> 00:02:45.951
they talked about their family
members on the record.

00:02:46.186 --> 00:02:48.186
Legally that is ok.

00:02:49.589 --> 00:02:51.589
But the problem is you don't

00:02:52.158 --> 00:02:55.127
want a hearing to be used as a
way to harass or accuse anybody.

00:02:57.300 --> 00:02:59.331
So the assembly did the smart
thing they pulled down that

00:03:00.100 --> 00:03:02.100
hearing from the website.

00:03:02.202 --> 00:03:05.710
So it makes it less public.
So if people are using names

00:03:06.206 --> 00:03:08.206
here, there is a chance we MAY

00:03:09.476 --> 00:03:11.476
not be able to keep that on the

00:03:11.745 --> 00:03:14.680
website which is the opposite
point of this exercise.

00:03:15.815 --> 00:03:17.815
Please do not mention names.

00:03:17.885 --> 00:03:19.885
I am expecting there will be

00:03:20.530 --> 00:03:22.530
tough topics, race, and family

00:03:22.256 --> 00:03:25.240
separation and we will do it
respectfully and we should get

00:03:26.393 --> 00:03:28.393
right to it.

00:03:28.862 --> 00:03:30.862
MS. Byrnes do you have anything

00:03:32.165 --> 00:03:34.399
to say or are we ready to roll.
>> we are ready to roll and the

00:03:35.336 --> 00:03:37.870
chair and I will receive a
wealth of information which will

00:03:39.973 --> 00:03:41.974
help both sides of the aisle
dramatically formulate important

00:03:42.609 --> 00:03:44.577
policy for the state.
Thank you MR. Chair.

00:03:44.644 --> 00:03:46.644
>> thank you.

00:03:47.800 --> 00:03:49.800
Our first person to testify is

00:03:50.250 --> 00:03:52.918
my friend, the commissioner of
acs, david hansell thank you for

00:03:53.954 --> 00:03:56.923
coming here today and thank you
for taking the time.

00:03:57.858 --> 00:04:00.393
The floor is yours.
>> welcome to new york city.

00:04:02.863 --> 00:04:05.564
I am david hansell I am the
commissioner for the

00:04:06.166 --> 00:04:07.733
administration for children's
services.

00:04:08.501 --> 00:04:10.569
Our child welfare goal is to
connect families with the

00:04:11.338 --> 00:04:13.338
services and supports that they

00:04:13.841 --> 00:04:15.441
need to safely care for their
children.

00:04:16.610 --> 00:04:18.911
We acknowledge the longstanding
racial disparities in child

00:04:19.146 --> 00:04:21.146
welfare and we're committed to

00:04:22.215 --> 00:04:24.215
the goal that a child or

00:04:24.317 --> 00:04:26.317
family's race or ethnicity does

00:04:26.953 --> 00:04:28.953
not determine how they fare.

00:04:29.490 --> 00:04:31.357
Acs has taken steps by
connecting families to the

00:04:32.259 --> 00:04:34.259
supports they need while

00:04:34.862 --> 00:04:36.862
minimizing more intrusive

00:04:37.640 --> 00:04:39.231
interventions I will touch on
some today.

00:04:39.933 --> 00:04:41.933
While the work of insuring

00:04:42.435 --> 00:04:45.404
children is safe is essential
child protection investigations

00:04:46.707 --> 00:04:48.741
can be intrusive for families.
We have been advocating for

00:04:51.278 --> 00:04:52.678
changes to avoid unnecessary
investigations.

00:04:53.413 --> 00:04:56.480
Acs is required by state law to
respond to reports accepted by

00:04:56.783 --> 00:04:58.783
the state and referred to us.

00:04:58.819 --> 00:05:00.819
The greatest source of racial

00:05:01.821 --> 00:05:03.821
disparity in new york's city

00:05:04.250 --> 00:05:06.250
child welfare system is at the

00:05:06.494 --> 00:05:08.494
front door where there is
overrepresentation of black and

00:05:08.495 --> 00:05:10.495
latinx families.

00:05:12.566 --> 00:05:15.501
To help address this acs is
instructing staff on the ways to

00:05:16.203 --> 00:05:18.203
provide support to families

00:05:20.174 --> 00:05:22.174
without an acr report.

00:05:22.877 --> 00:05:24.877
As chair hevesi notes we

00:05:24.979 --> 00:05:26.979
encouraged the state to

00:05:29.983 --> 00:05:31.983
encourage bias training and we

00:05:32.186 --> 00:05:34.186
appreciate your support.

00:05:34.521 --> 00:05:36.422
To further we are continue
ing to

00:05:38.590 --> 00:05:39.793
expand cares our
non-investigatory child response

00:05:40.594 --> 00:05:42.594
to reports when there is no

00:05:42.596 --> 00:05:44.596
immediate danger to children or

00:05:46.233 --> 00:05:49.168
allegation of serious child
maltreatment.
We have expanded to all five

00:05:49.870 --> 00:05:52.572
boroughs and doubled cap I it.
We want families to feel

00:05:53.473 --> 00:05:55.473
connected to communities and

00:05:56.430 --> 00:05:58.144
have access to resources that
direct poverty and the stresses

00:05:58.613 --> 00:06:00.613
of parenting and to be armed

00:06:00.781 --> 00:06:02.515
with information how to keep
children safe.

00:06:05.352 --> 00:06:07.820
We support three family enrich.
Centers since they were launched

00:06:09.990 --> 00:06:11.824
in 2018 every aspect has been
codesigned with community

00:06:12.393 --> 00:06:14.393
members and we are expanding

00:06:16.564 --> 00:06:18.564
from 3 to 30 over the next three

00:06:20.670 --> 00:06:22.670
years for an rfp we are seeking

00:06:23.670 --> 00:06:25.670
local providers with deep ties

00:06:25.873 --> 00:06:27.240
to the communities to run the
sites.

00:06:28.342 --> 00:06:30.342
We created an office to expand

00:06:30.478 --> 00:06:32.478
our ability to educate parents

00:06:32.513 --> 00:06:34.981
on important child safety topics
and avoid dangers to children we

00:06:37.284 --> 00:06:40.860
are focusing on safe sleep
practices, safe storage of

00:06:41.855 --> 00:06:44.524
medication and safe storage of
cannabis edibles and many

00:06:45.125 --> 00:06:47.426
families have a need for
affordable childcare we are

00:06:48.529 --> 00:06:50.530
taking steps to expand access as
much as possible.

00:06:50.865 --> 00:06:53.733
I appreciate the committee's
support this year and looking

00:06:55.703 --> 00:06:57.703
forward to expand next year.

00:06:58.439 --> 00:07:01.700
We believe the best way to keep
children safe is to provide

00:07:01.342 --> 00:07:03.760
families with the services and
supports they need.

00:07:04.111 --> 00:07:06.580
Because of our focus on
prevention services that support

00:07:08.149 --> 00:07:10.149
parents and children in their

00:07:12.119 --> 00:07:14.119
homes there are fewer than 7300

00:07:14.722 --> 00:07:16.722
in child care.

00:07:17.158 --> 00:07:18.458
Families are telling us
themselves.

00:07:20.270 --> 00:07:22.270
In our family experience survey,

00:07:22.197 --> 00:07:24.666
about 93% of respondents said
they were happy with the

00:07:24.666 --> 00:07:26.666
prevention services they

00:07:29.604 --> 00:07:31.738
received and 87% said they would
recommend them to others.

00:07:31.906 --> 00:07:34.400
The system would that be
possible without the state's

00:07:34.542 --> 00:07:36.542
partnership and the child

00:07:36.710 --> 00:07:39.679
welfare financing structure of
open ended reimbursement thank

00:07:41.716 --> 00:07:44.618
you for your tireless advocacy
to maintain this we look forward

00:07:46.787 --> 00:07:48.787
to working with you to restore

00:07:49.257 --> 00:07:51.257
state reimbursement to 65%.

00:07:51.592 --> 00:07:53.592
We're fully engaged in

00:07:54.161 --> 00:07:56.161
implementing the federal family

00:07:56.297 --> 00:07:58.666
first law and I thank you them
for the recent plan.

00:08:00.702 --> 00:08:03.437
And we very much value the role
of parent advocates trained

00:08:03.838 --> 00:08:05.838
professionals who have lived

00:08:05.940 --> 00:08:07.174
experience in the child welfare
system.

00:08:08.409 --> 00:08:11.110
A study of our parent advocacy
initiative in child safety

00:08:11.212 --> 00:08:13.880
conferences found a significant
increase in conference

00:08:14.616 --> 00:08:16.616
attendance by parents a

00:08:16.951 --> 00:08:19.686
reduction in removals and
increased use of kinship care.

00:08:20.722 --> 00:08:23.156
We have issued a paper to expand
the program based on this

00:08:25.626 --> 00:08:27.594
research with an rfp
forthcoming.

00:08:29.497 --> 00:08:31.497
As we our foster system one of

00:08:31.732 --> 00:08:34.401
the most significant
transformations will be parents
advocates.

00:08:35.770 --> 00:08:38.505
There will be a workforce of 150
parent advocates at our foster

00:08:39.540 --> 00:08:42.476
care agencies who will work with
parents so more children go home

00:08:44.145 --> 00:08:46.145
quickly and safely.

00:08:46.647 --> 00:08:49.449
In conclusion I'm grateful to
the assembly and the committee

00:08:50.510 --> 00:08:52.753
for your support and advocacy on
behalf of new york city children

00:08:53.210 --> 00:08:55.456
and families and I acknowledge
the community members here today

00:08:56.724 --> 00:08:59.493
as well who I know care about
the child welfare system on

00:08:59.494 --> 00:09:01.161
families as we do.
Thank you.

00:09:01.829 --> 00:09:04.332
>> you finished with two seconds
left.
I was impressed.

00:09:04.332 --> 00:09:07.167
Thank you, commissioner.
If I can, a number of questions

00:09:07.436 --> 00:09:09.703
and first thank you for all of
the work you do.

00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:13.840
This is not an easy job.

00:09:14.609 --> 00:09:16.609
Let me start with probably the

00:09:16.711 --> 00:09:19.579
most difficult arena and you
mentioned it in your testimony

00:09:21.182 --> 00:09:23.650
that you're seeing race as an
impact of a driver of the

00:09:24.352 --> 00:09:26.821
numbers of kids from black and
brown communities that are

00:09:27.550 --> 00:09:29.623
affected by the system.
Can you talk a little bit about

00:09:29.925 --> 00:09:31.925
that and expand on that?

00:09:32.460 --> 00:09:34.460
I think that is at least for me,

00:09:34.629 --> 00:09:36.629
the numbers are outrageous and

00:09:37.231 --> 00:09:39.666
they speak to systemic racism
but it's not just for me.

00:09:41.302 --> 00:09:43.302
This is a long question.

00:09:43.972 --> 00:09:45.972
It's not just for me about acs

00:09:47.175 --> 00:09:49.743
it is a societal issue going
back hundreds of years.

00:09:50.211 --> 00:09:52.714
Tell me what you think how race
is driving the numbers for our

00:09:52.714 --> 00:09:54.714
kids?

00:09:55.183 --> 00:09:57.183
>> this is a very serious issue

00:09:58.186 --> 00:10:00.186
and it's serious for us at acs.

00:10:00.489 --> 00:10:02.489
You are right it is broader than

00:10:03.992 --> 00:10:06.127
child welfare but it has been an
endemic problem across the

00:10:06.361 --> 00:10:08.361
country and new york state and

00:10:08.430 --> 00:10:10.430
new york city for the longest as

00:10:10.532 --> 00:10:12.666
child welfare programs existed
and I believe we have a

00:10:13.568 --> 00:10:15.969
responsibility to address it.
And we have a responsibility to

00:10:17.973 --> 00:10:20.242
work to become an antiracist
organization and we are doing

00:10:20.242 --> 00:10:22.242
that.

00:10:22.411 --> 00:10:25.450
We begun by looking at the data
because we think it's important

00:10:25.180 --> 00:10:27.180
to identify what is driving this

00:10:27.782 --> 00:10:29.782
as you suggested and what we can

00:10:29.951 --> 00:10:32.419
do that will make a difference
and move the needle.

00:10:33.721 --> 00:10:35.556
We have done this actually
several years now.

00:10:36.525 --> 00:10:39.327
And what we've done we're happy
to share the data with the

00:10:40.696 --> 00:10:43.330
committee is to look at a child
or family's progression through

00:10:43.932 --> 00:10:45.932
the child welfare system from

00:10:45.967 --> 00:10:47.967
the initial report that comes in

00:10:48.570 --> 00:10:50.971
and looking at the increment of
disparity at each of the stages.

00:10:51.506 --> 00:10:54.342
As I said in my testimony when
we look at those data the

00:10:54.643 --> 00:10:56.643
largest source of disparity is

00:10:58.413 --> 00:11:00.413
right at the front door in scr

00:11:00.415 --> 00:11:02.415
reporting where very

00:11:03.885 --> 00:11:06.553
families are reported than the
proportion of the population and

00:11:07.550 --> 00:11:09.556
latinx families as well.
And there is additional

00:11:10.626 --> 00:11:11.926
disparity at other stages in the
process.

00:11:15.130 --> 00:11:17.130
And so we have developed and

00:11:18.166 --> 00:11:20.968
actually several years ago are
implementing an equity action

00:11:22.370 --> 00:11:25.305
plan a set of strategies to
address disparity at each of the
stages.

00:11:26.174 --> 00:11:28.409
It's on our website and publicly
available but happy to make sure

00:11:29.445 --> 00:11:31.445
that the committee has it.

00:11:31.847 --> 00:11:34.582
And includes a range of actions.
I talked about because it is

00:11:35.484 --> 00:11:38.185
where the greatest increment
begins which is at the front

00:11:38.420 --> 00:11:40.420
door how we can change that.

00:11:40.822 --> 00:11:42.822
As you know, as you both know,

00:11:43.224 --> 00:11:45.627
we don't have discretion over
what reports we respond to.

00:11:47.529 --> 00:11:50.264
If a report is made to the scr
the state refer it is to us and

00:11:50.666 --> 00:11:52.567
we are required to respond in
some way.

00:11:53.680 --> 00:11:55.680
So what we've tried to do is

00:11:56.171 --> 00:11:58.272
first of all to work with the
source of the majority of

00:11:59.400 --> 00:12:01.175
reports we receive which is
mandated reporters,

00:12:01.443 --> 00:12:04.450
professionals who are required
to report if they see evidence

00:12:05.848 --> 00:12:07.148
that a child has been
maltreated.

00:12:08.684 --> 00:12:10.684
But we think that there are

00:12:11.286 --> 00:12:14.880
there is overreporting in some
categories and bias in
reporting.

00:12:15.390 --> 00:12:18.259
And that is why I touched on
this and I'm happy to talk about

00:12:18.860 --> 00:12:20.860
it further we have worked with

00:12:21.230 --> 00:12:23.298
the largest categories of
mandated reporters the schools

00:12:24.660 --> 00:12:26.901
and hospitals and healthcare
providers to make sure they

00:12:28.537 --> 00:12:30.871
understand when a report is and
is not appropriate.

00:12:31.607 --> 00:12:33.607
When something that they observe

00:12:33.875 --> 00:12:35.875
in the context of their work is

00:12:36.511 --> 00:12:39.447
or is not a child welfare issue
and should not be reported but

00:12:39.949 --> 00:12:41.949
dealt with differently.

00:12:42.718 --> 00:12:44.652
So we've been working actually
since the beginning of the

00:12:45.320 --> 00:12:47.455
pandemic with the department of
education around that because we

00:12:48.423 --> 00:12:51.580
were concerned early in the
pandemic when learning was

00:12:51.593 --> 00:12:53.593
remote that there would be

00:12:53.795 --> 00:12:55.795
inappropriate reports based on a

00:12:56.320 --> 00:12:58.166
child not being able to access
remote learning because the

00:12:59.101 --> 00:13:01.369
family did not have internet
access and now with the return

00:13:02.271 --> 00:13:04.839
to in-person, and we know
families are struggling with

00:13:05.400 --> 00:13:07.400
issues about returning their

00:13:07.376 --> 00:13:09.410
kids to school we don't want
reports that need to be

00:13:10.112 --> 00:13:12.814
addressed by the schools around
helping parents access what they

00:13:14.250 --> 00:13:16.419
think is the most appropriate
learning methodology for their

00:13:16.419 --> 00:13:18.286
kids.
>> can I jump in.

00:13:19.880 --> 00:13:22.560
Thank you for those answers.
First, this is a follow-up to

00:13:22.570 --> 00:13:24.570
the conversation that the

00:13:24.226 --> 00:13:26.226
commissioner and I had about

00:13:26.662 --> 00:13:29.330
educational neglect with kids or
parents keeping their kids home

00:13:29.799 --> 00:13:32.200
because they don't think the
schools are safe.

00:13:33.436 --> 00:13:35.670
I would be for and this is not
mayoral politics but I would be

00:13:36.305 --> 00:13:38.305
for a remote option.

00:13:38.807 --> 00:13:41.676
In the absence of that the
commissioner setup protocols so

00:13:42.110 --> 00:13:44.879
no parent should be threatened
with kids going into the system.

00:13:45.414 --> 00:13:47.414
There's protocols for that.

00:13:48.117 --> 00:13:49.951
If anybody is hearing that let
us know.

00:13:50.419 --> 00:13:52.787
I thank you for your work on
that.
>> it's the department of

00:13:54.423 --> 00:13:56.624
education setting up the
protocols but their guidance

00:13:57.826 --> 00:14:00.262
which they have been messaging
to teachers and staff since the

00:14:00.262 --> 00:14:03.164
beginning of the pandemic and
they are shortly we hope within

00:14:05.201 --> 00:14:07.201
a matter of days issuing written

00:14:07.670 --> 00:14:09.604
guidance reflects that it is
their responsibility to work

00:14:10.806 --> 00:14:13.608
with families to engage children
in schooling whether that is in

00:14:14.743 --> 00:14:16.611
school or through home
instruction or whatever.

00:14:16.946 --> 00:14:19.614
>> so that is helpful.
Let me take a step back to

00:14:20.482 --> 00:14:22.718
something you mentioned about
mandated reporters.

00:14:23.619 --> 00:14:26.880
You hit on a good issue and
thank you for your help in the

00:14:26.880 --> 00:14:28.880
past budget.

00:14:28.324 --> 00:14:30.759
I understand the complexities of
the mandated reporting system

00:14:32.194 --> 00:14:35.290
and that it can be seen a
surveillance.
I get it.

00:14:36.599 --> 00:14:38.599
We did pass an update in this

00:14:39.402 --> 00:14:42.237
past budget to the mandated
reporter law requiring they been

00:14:43.906 --> 00:14:45.906
trained in childhood trauma.

00:14:46.108 --> 00:14:48.743
That is being worked through and
anybody who wants to contact our

00:14:48.878 --> 00:14:51.646
office and have a conversation
about what that training looks

00:14:52.448 --> 00:14:54.282
like we are in the process of
doing that.

00:14:55.417 --> 00:14:57.417
The second thing we have to put

00:14:57.821 --> 00:14:59.821
together we passing the budget

00:15:00.790 --> 00:15:02.790
implicit bias training for

00:15:03.493 --> 00:15:05.694
mandated reporters and that will
be coming as well.

00:15:06.195 --> 00:15:08.195
I thank you for your help.

00:15:08.264 --> 00:15:10.264
I think this is an opportunity

00:15:10.666 --> 00:15:12.666
if I can I want to say thank you

00:15:13.936 --> 00:15:16.805
and this is to the system.
The commissioner mentioned there

00:15:18.374 --> 00:15:20.442
are 7,000 kids in foster care.
That is amazing.

00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:24.913
The numbers were up 15,000 or
higher?

00:15:25.848 --> 00:15:27.480
>> it depends what point in
time.

00:15:28.584 --> 00:15:30.584
The peak was 50,000.

00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:33.689
10 years ago we were 50,000.
>> that number is great and part

00:15:34.257 --> 00:15:36.792
of the reason I believe that
number dropped to that level

00:15:37.894 --> 00:15:39.894
because the state did one good

00:15:42.532 --> 00:15:45.300
program, the 65/35 reimbursement
for prevention.

00:15:45.868 --> 00:15:48.570
I believe that prevention is the
key to all of this.

00:15:48.838 --> 00:15:50.838
That I believe that there needs

00:15:51.241 --> 00:15:54.142
to be an infusion of state money
into prevention services before

00:15:55.311 --> 00:15:58.180
kids get traumatized after they
get traumatized and there are

00:15:59.382 --> 00:16:01.650
services for kids who are really
hurting and their families.

00:16:03.185 --> 00:16:05.553
Part of this context so
everybody understands who I am

00:16:06.222 --> 00:16:08.924
and what we are pushing for
there needs to be money from the

00:16:09.693 --> 00:16:12.194
state to be invested in
prevention services so kids do

00:16:13.263 --> 00:16:15.931
not touch the child welfare
system or if they do we are

00:16:17.500 --> 00:16:20.101
giving them the proper services
as to extreme measures to deal

00:16:20.536 --> 00:16:23.238
with the problem.
So I wanted to mention that.

00:16:24.274 --> 00:16:26.575
I believe in prevention.
I know you do, too.

00:16:27.711 --> 00:16:29.745
And I will lead you into talking
about childcare because

00:16:30.814 --> 00:16:32.648
childcare is trauma prevention
and mitigation.

00:16:33.716 --> 00:16:36.218
Can you talk about childcare?
>> I appreciate that framing

00:16:36.986 --> 00:16:39.487
because that is the way we've
looked at it.

00:16:41.900 --> 00:16:43.292
Childcare is still part of our
portfolio we are responsible for

00:16:45.595 --> 00:16:47.595
the city's voucher system which

00:16:47.831 --> 00:16:50.320
provides either free or low cost
childcare for individuals

00:16:51.334 --> 00:16:53.334
through vouchers.

00:16:53.436 --> 00:16:56.371
And we have been engaged in
trying to figure out how we can

00:16:56.906 --> 00:16:59.107
expand access to childcare for
families who need t we know it

00:16:59.843 --> 00:17:02.378
is a critical need especially
now with parents going back to

00:17:03.580 --> 00:17:05.748
work after a long period of time
many have been working through

00:17:06.820 --> 00:17:08.650
the pandemic there are a lot of
reasons why families need

00:17:08.651 --> 00:17:10.651
affordable childcare.

00:17:10.653 --> 00:17:12.653
We have been working closely

00:17:14.290 --> 00:17:16.290
with ocfs to look where we can

00:17:16.426 --> 00:17:18.828
expand access to childcare.
I'm happy to say they have

00:17:19.529 --> 00:17:21.830
signed off on a number of
expansions in new york city that

00:17:22.320 --> 00:17:24.320
we will be implementing which

00:17:24.367 --> 00:17:27.102
include things like making
childcare available to parents

00:17:28.638 --> 00:17:30.239
who are engaged in substance
abuse treatment.

00:17:31.700 --> 00:17:33.700
To parents who have completed

00:17:33.176 --> 00:17:36.120
any kind of involvement in the
child welfare system prevention

00:17:39.716 --> 00:17:41.716
services who have reunited a

00:17:42.719 --> 00:17:44.719
child from or adopted a child.

00:17:45.688 --> 00:17:48.230
And that will be focusing on
expanding access to childcare in

00:17:48.958 --> 00:17:51.793
a number of communities around
new york city that have been

00:17:53.397 --> 00:17:55.397
particularly heavily hit by

00:17:55.532 --> 00:17:58.167
covid and that faced
longstanding high rates of

00:17:59.350 --> 00:18:01.637
poverty and other factors.
We are focused on that.

00:18:02.710 --> 00:18:04.573
And there are areas where we
would love to see the state

00:18:06.643 --> 00:18:08.643
expand the statutory parameters

00:18:08.644 --> 00:18:10.644
and look forward to working on

00:18:10.681 --> 00:18:12.381
it with you next year.
>> thank you.

00:18:13.116 --> 00:18:15.116
First I thank you and also

00:18:15.686 --> 00:18:18.387
deputy commissioner for ocfs
that was an amazing thing you

00:18:19.990 --> 00:18:22.658
heard that ocfs is allowing new
york city to expand childcare

00:18:23.293 --> 00:18:25.293
and it gives everybody the

00:18:25.662 --> 00:18:27.662
accepts where acs is trying to

00:18:28.365 --> 00:18:30.233
move to childcare and ocfs I
thank them both.

00:18:30.434 --> 00:18:32.434
So everybody in the room is

00:18:33.403 --> 00:18:36.173
clear the statutory moves we -- 
we need to expand childcare.

00:18:36.173 --> 00:18:38.173
Period.

00:18:38.775 --> 00:18:41.109
We need to expand childcare.
Senator my colleague in the

00:18:42.745 --> 00:18:44.881
senate is leading a universal
childcare tour to figure out

00:18:45.916 --> 00:18:48.184
what that looks like but
childcare is important and the

00:18:49.653 --> 00:18:51.554
commissioner and ocfs has been
working with us.

00:18:52.656 --> 00:18:54.656
We have legislation to expand

00:18:54.791 --> 00:18:57.226
childcare in new york by 10,000
slots and it is not enough it is

00:18:58.161 --> 00:19:00.963
a start but we have a bill
passed the senate and it was my

00:19:03.100 --> 00:19:05.100
fault it didn't pass we didn't

00:19:07.176 --> 00:19:09.710
have enough time but we are
going to get it done.
We are looking to expand 10,000

00:19:10.340 --> 00:19:12.340
slots and another bill that will

00:19:12.375 --> 00:19:14.375
allow part-time parents to have

00:19:15.178 --> 00:19:16.445
the kids in full-time in
childcare.

00:19:17.447 --> 00:19:20.183
If you are a part-time parent
regardless of their needs cannot

00:19:21.285 --> 00:19:23.853
get access to full-time care it
is an outrage.

00:19:24.388 --> 00:19:26.388
Part-time parents are working

00:19:26.823 --> 00:19:28.823
their butts off and their kids

00:19:28.925 --> 00:19:31.727
should be able to get full-time
care and we are looking to pass

00:19:32.762 --> 00:19:35.731
that bill as well.
Last thing, commissioner, the

00:19:35.799 --> 00:19:37.799
parent advocates.

00:19:38.235 --> 00:19:40.235
Do me a favor tell me more about

00:19:41.238 --> 00:19:43.239
that, 150 parent advocates.
>> parent advocates are

00:19:43.807 --> 00:19:46.242
individuals who had lived
experience in the families and

00:19:46.610 --> 00:19:48.978
the child welfare system and
have been trained to work with

00:19:49.112 --> 00:19:51.247
other parents to help them
through the system.

00:19:52.549 --> 00:19:54.549
We have been working with parent

00:19:55.853 --> 00:19:57.853
advocates at acs for sometime.

00:19:58.550 --> 00:20:00.690
In our what we call our initial
child safety conferences we are

00:20:01.158 --> 00:20:03.158
engaging with the family around

00:20:03.927 --> 00:20:06.796
trying to identify what the best
safety precautions are for the

00:20:08.980 --> 00:20:10.232
kids we often conduct a child
safety conference and we have

00:20:10.600 --> 00:20:12.600
been including parent advocates

00:20:12.703 --> 00:20:14.270
to work with parents in those
conferences.

00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:16.839
We just cooperated on research

00:20:17.410 --> 00:20:19.410
to look at an expanded model for

00:20:19.760 --> 00:20:21.711
the parent advocates and child
safety conferences and as I said

00:20:23.247 --> 00:20:24.847
in my testimony had positive
results.

00:20:25.782 --> 00:20:27.782
Fewer kids going to foster care

00:20:27.918 --> 00:20:30.854
more kinship care.
And better involvement
generally.

00:20:32.790 --> 00:20:35.124
So we want to capitalize on that
and expand in accordance with

00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:38.661
the model we have issued a
concept paper to do that and

00:20:40.230 --> 00:20:43.320
issuing an rfp for organizations
that want to partner to provide

00:20:43.633 --> 00:20:45.633
the advocates n foster care we

00:20:46.337 --> 00:20:49.172
are in the process right now of
reprocureing our foster care

00:20:49.473 --> 00:20:51.473
system in new york city and

00:20:51.475 --> 00:20:53.475
making many, many changes.

00:20:53.677 --> 00:20:56.579
One of the most significant is
that we will be requiring all

00:20:58.282 --> 00:21:00.783
foster care agencies to provide
parent advocates to work with

00:21:02.152 --> 00:21:04.152
parents and families where they

00:21:04.422 --> 00:21:06.423
are working towards
reunification with children from

00:21:06.958 --> 00:21:08.958
foster care and that will make a

00:21:09.827 --> 00:21:12.328
difference in terms of
expediting save reunification

00:21:12.930 --> 00:21:14.930
for parents and children.

00:21:16.330 --> 00:21:18.769
>> anything you can do to get
kids back to families I support

00:21:18.769 --> 00:21:21.537
so thank you commissioner.
I think that is all I have.

00:21:21.873 --> 00:21:23.873
Do you have questions?

00:21:24.342 --> 00:21:25.642
>> you were thorough and I
answered -- 

00:21:26.744 --> 00:21:29.512
asked some of the ones.
But what I would like to do I

00:21:29.647 --> 00:21:32.150
know today we are going to hear
a lot of information from a lot

00:21:32.783 --> 00:21:35.485
of people.
And I'm quite confident that at

00:21:35.986 --> 00:21:38.921
the end I will have more
questions and concerns.

00:21:39.457 --> 00:21:41.457
And with your permission and

00:21:41.959 --> 00:21:43.959
with the chair's, I can reach

00:21:44.862 --> 00:21:47.430
out to you in the future with
more information so that we can

00:21:48.332 --> 00:21:50.332
make sure that we get the

00:21:50.868 --> 00:21:53.703
answers we need to do the right
thing.
>> absolutely.

00:21:54.204 --> 00:21:56.405
And if the committee wants to
share questions with us in

00:21:57.742 --> 00:21:59.742
writing after the hearing based

00:22:00.780 --> 00:22:02.612
on the testimony I will be happy
to respond.

00:22:06.684 --> 00:22:08.351
>> I have another question.
So -- 

00:22:09.486 --> 00:22:11.486
>> I won't do that next time.

00:22:11.755 --> 00:22:14.390
>> the fec's, this is a
softball, do you think the state

00:22:17.610 --> 00:22:19.610
should be giving more money for

00:22:19.564 --> 00:22:21.564
family enrichment centers?

00:22:24.635 --> 00:22:26.635
>> one word answer h and the

00:22:27.338 --> 00:22:29.338
state does provide generous

00:22:29.740 --> 00:22:31.400
support for prevention but
not -- 

00:22:32.277 --> 00:22:34.878
>> I got to jump in when we are
following the law we wrote it is

00:22:38.483 --> 00:22:41.510
a 65 there were 35.
>> however that funding does not

00:22:42.553 --> 00:22:44.553
reach family enrichment centers

00:22:44.722 --> 00:22:46.722
because they are what we call

00:22:47.424 --> 00:22:49.927
primary prevention and the point
of primary prevention is to be

00:22:50.929 --> 00:22:52.763
independent of child welfare
protective system.

00:22:53.498 --> 00:22:55.932
That is the model.
But unfortunately, the state

00:22:56.734 --> 00:22:58.268
funding doesn't reach to that
model.

00:22:59.737 --> 00:23:01.737
Yes, we would love to see the

00:23:02.730 --> 00:23:04.730
state expand both get back to

00:23:04.375 --> 00:23:06.709
65% and expand it to include
models of primary prevention

00:23:08.246 --> 00:23:10.747
like the family enrichment
centers.
>> so you are aware and that

00:23:11.150 --> 00:23:12.316
will be the end of the questions
for you.

00:23:14.850 --> 00:23:16.787
So you are aware we are putting
together an agenda to take care

00:23:19.560 --> 00:23:21.791
of focus on primary prevention
for kids starting with the most

00:23:22.660 --> 00:23:24.828
important thing is to makeup for
the damage from the last

00:23:27.165 --> 00:23:29.933
governor the last 12 years every
year that gentleman moved to cut

00:23:32.337 --> 00:23:34.571
funding for kids the most
vulnerable kids in new york.

00:23:35.339 --> 00:23:37.339
We fought him back but we lost a

00:23:38.209 --> 00:23:40.877
couple 60 million was cut a
couple years ago.

00:23:40.911 --> 00:23:42.911
There are programs that are

00:23:44.416 --> 00:23:46.416
existing that are good including

00:23:47.850 --> 00:23:49.850
65/35, including the child

00:23:49.988 --> 00:23:51.988
welfare housing subsidy for kids

00:23:53.357 --> 00:23:55.492
which is so low you cannot get a
closet for it.

00:23:56.127 --> 00:23:58.229
There are things that we have
not done well in the state that

00:23:58.229 --> 00:24:00.631
need to be done.
That is one problem.

00:24:01.399 --> 00:24:03.399
The second problem is we have to

00:24:04.269 --> 00:24:06.837
have new mechanisms to do
primary and secondary prevention

00:24:08.172 --> 00:24:10.172
in communities with state money

00:24:10.608 --> 00:24:13.577
that also this is our idea I'm
throwing this at you that you

00:24:13.978 --> 00:24:15.978
can document while they are

00:24:16.214 --> 00:24:18.883
providing services so they can
qualify for title 4e federal

00:24:19.150 --> 00:24:21.150
money that is part of the goal

00:24:22.220 --> 00:24:24.688
and the third is universal
childcare.
It requires money.

00:24:26.424 --> 00:24:29.192
We are going to be I am, with
the number of my colleagues,

00:24:30.940 --> 00:24:32.229
pushing for more money into
primary prevention for kids.

00:24:32.496 --> 00:24:34.496
Thank you for all of the work

00:24:34.699 --> 00:24:37.201
that you've been doing and we've
learned a lot from this hearing

00:24:37.202 --> 00:24:39.570
and your partnership thank you
for the work you are doing on

00:24:39.838 --> 00:24:42.239
behalf of kids.
Commissioner I appreciate you

00:24:42.574 --> 00:24:45.309
taking the time today.
>> thank you so much.

00:24:48.346 --> 00:24:50.346
>> the next witness, joyce

00:24:51.830 --> 00:24:53.830
mcmillan the executive director

00:24:53.485 --> 00:24:56.353
of jmac for families.
Joyce, please come on up.

00:24:59.891 --> 00:25:01.891
[Applause]

00:25:03.428 --> 00:25:05.829
I am assuming that is not for
me.

00:25:06.798 --> 00:25:08.798
How are you doing.

00:25:09.167 --> 00:25:10.868
>> how are you this morning.
>> I am great.

00:25:12.370 --> 00:25:14.238
The floor is yours.
>> I say thank you for all that

00:25:15.507 --> 00:25:17.507
you are doing to bring awareness

00:25:18.443 --> 00:25:20.443
to this issue around what some

00:25:20.745 --> 00:25:23.513
call child welfare that I call
the family policing system.

00:25:24.549 --> 00:25:27.118
I would like to start
unfortunately I didn't write

00:25:28.820 --> 00:25:31.155
anything out but listening to
david hansell helped me a little
bit.

00:25:34.659 --> 00:25:37.362
I will start with saying he
spoke about how they are trying

00:25:37.362 --> 00:25:39.362
to do different.

00:25:40.980 --> 00:25:42.980
But if we want to reduce black

00:25:42.333 --> 00:25:45.203
and poor families from being
impacted, then we should tell

00:25:46.371 --> 00:25:48.371
them their rights.

00:25:49.808 --> 00:25:51.909
[Applause]
>> for everybody I appreciate

00:25:52.277 --> 00:25:54.445
that by the way.
I appreciate there's going to be

00:25:55.980 --> 00:25:57.214
a lot of bills that we want to
support.

00:25:58.349 --> 00:26:01.151
Do me a favor keep the clapping
to a minimum.

00:26:01.553 --> 00:26:03.722
>> sensibly it's the most
sensible and reasonable thing we

00:26:03.722 --> 00:26:05.722
can do.

00:26:06.692 --> 00:26:09.360
We talk about all of the other
convoluted ways to reduce after

00:26:09.828 --> 00:26:11.828
the fact.

00:26:13.980 --> 00:26:15.866
The prevention happens before.
An ounce of prevention is worth

00:26:16.734 --> 00:26:18.734
more than a pound of cure.

00:26:20.172 --> 00:26:22.172
How do we prevent families from

00:26:22.641 --> 00:26:24.943
becoming insnared with them them
their rights and allow them to

00:26:24.943 --> 00:26:26.943
lawyer up.

00:26:27.612 --> 00:26:30.214
We have great defender services
in new york and hopefully your

00:26:30.615 --> 00:26:33.117
funds can help to do that.
But everyone across the state

00:26:34.819 --> 00:26:36.819
should have the ability to have

00:26:40.125 --> 00:26:41.492
an attorney when acs, cps
knocks.

00:26:44.796 --> 00:26:47.331
But parent advocates are window
dressing.

00:26:49.670 --> 00:26:51.568
It is abusive and uses a slave
mentality to take the same

00:26:52.237 --> 00:26:54.237
people that you've caused a

00:26:55.841 --> 00:26:57.841
great deal of harm mentally

00:26:58.744 --> 00:27:00.744
abused, tore apart their family,

00:27:01.790 --> 00:27:03.481
violated their rights, caused
unimaginable amount of harm and

00:27:05.517 --> 00:27:07.517
said, hey you can come work for

00:27:08.286 --> 00:27:11.550
me and I will pay you minimum
wage and you will work at the

00:27:11.590 --> 00:27:14.359
bottom of the food chain in our
agency and we will treat you the

00:27:15.627 --> 00:27:17.627
same way we treated you when you

00:27:18.630 --> 00:27:20.630
were under our supervision.

00:27:21.433 --> 00:27:24.402
Ace's training is good, implicit
bias train something good but

00:27:25.437 --> 00:27:27.710
parents knowing their rights is
best.

00:27:28.730 --> 00:27:30.730
Real preventative services is

00:27:30.576 --> 00:27:32.576
additional funding for families

00:27:34.146 --> 00:27:36.146
to have more cash on hand,

00:27:36.248 --> 00:27:38.450
daycare, respite service,
housing, and knowing their

00:27:38.450 --> 00:27:40.618
rights.
It's really all about knowing

00:27:41.253 --> 00:27:44.540
your rights no matter what it is
that you say no matter how you

00:27:44.823 --> 00:27:47.225
slice it, it's about knowing
your rights.

00:27:48.270 --> 00:27:50.595
Why would anyone want to operate
without someone knowing the

00:27:51.897 --> 00:27:53.897
rights that they have?

00:27:53.966 --> 00:27:56.667
Clear boundaries is what we all
set for ourselves.

00:27:57.369 --> 00:27:59.369
Parents do not have the right or

00:27:59.571 --> 00:28:02.440
black parents do not have the
right to have clear boundaries

00:28:02.674 --> 00:28:05.610
to know what is happening.
When is the last time you bought

00:28:06.379 --> 00:28:08.379
a suit and they told you after

00:28:08.881 --> 00:28:11.182
you purchased it what the return
poll

00:28:11.483 --> 00:28:13.986
ken polaskysy is.
That doesn't happen and the fact

00:28:15.687 --> 00:28:18.189
we have to sit here and give
testimony about something

00:28:19.291 --> 00:28:21.291
sensible is frustrating to me.

00:28:21.327 --> 00:28:23.662
I'm trying to maintain my
composure but this is the most

00:28:23.663 --> 00:28:25.698
ridiculous thing.
This should have been passed

00:28:25.698 --> 00:28:28.366
years ago.
This shouldn't be something new.

00:28:28.567 --> 00:28:30.301
>> we are talking about the
walker bill?

00:28:30.736 --> 00:28:33.104
>> we are talking about the know
your rights.

00:28:33.906 --> 00:28:35.940
>> the walker bill.
>> yep.
>> ok.

00:28:36.642 --> 00:28:38.642
>> I don't have a lot more to

00:28:39.245 --> 00:28:41.245
add other than it's incumbent on

00:28:42.148 --> 00:28:44.148
all of us to not just talk about

00:28:44.884 --> 00:28:46.751
how we make changes but to make
changes

00:28:47.386 --> 00:28:49.420
>> I can jump in.
We have touched this

00:28:49.988 --> 00:28:51.988
conversation before and to be

00:28:52.591 --> 00:28:55.590
honest if I was a smart
politician I would not talk

00:28:55.762 --> 00:28:57.762
about this with you.

00:28:58.397 --> 00:29:00.999
The walker bill first of all
it's her bill she is a great

00:29:01.400 --> 00:29:03.400
colleague and a friend of mine

00:29:03.536 --> 00:29:06.404
and I believe in principle about
getting people their rights.

00:29:08.730 --> 00:29:10.730
The problem I'm having is on

00:29:11.843 --> 00:29:13.177
that bill and I understand the
frustration.

00:29:15.140 --> 00:29:17.215
Or I'm trying to understand the
frustration about we're setting

00:29:17.483 --> 00:29:19.585
up a system allowing the
government to come into people's

00:29:19.585 --> 00:29:22.253
houses.
I get that.

00:29:23.756 --> 00:29:26.324
My problem is and I'm not
against the walker bill because

00:29:27.126 --> 00:29:29.727
I like parts of it I think you
can figure this out.

00:29:30.362 --> 00:29:32.362
But my fundamental problem is

00:29:33.499 --> 00:29:35.499
this is where two things I care

00:29:36.135 --> 00:29:38.135
about conflict.

00:29:39.105 --> 00:29:41.107
First is we'll spend the rest of
my life fighting for children's

00:29:41.107 --> 00:29:42.907
safety.
And on the other hand I will

00:29:44.430 --> 00:29:46.611
spend the rest of my life making
sure that parents and kids do

00:29:47.646 --> 00:29:50.449
not get ripped away from each
other because that is a trauma

00:29:51.217 --> 00:29:54.186
for kids and has consequences
for them and terrible for the

00:29:54.554 --> 00:29:56.554
family and the taxpayers and

00:29:57.223 --> 00:29:59.223
those two things conflict.

00:29:59.625 --> 00:30:01.893
So I'm having trouble with that.
>> I'm going to help you.

00:30:02.861 --> 00:30:05.696
We have one of two choices.
Either we follow the law and

00:30:07.967 --> 00:30:10.136
have acs get court orders unless
there is emergency

00:30:10.136 --> 00:30:12.671
circumstances.
or we change the law so that

00:30:13.673 --> 00:30:16.541
they can just trample in
people's houses and they never

00:30:17.543 --> 00:30:20.311
have to be told their rights.
Right now as it stands there is

00:30:20.746 --> 00:30:23.470
nothing that says that parents
shouldn't know their rights but

00:30:24.184 --> 00:30:26.486
there is something that says acs
should have a court order to

00:30:26.486 --> 00:30:28.486
enter the home.

00:30:28.688 --> 00:30:31.256
>> I appreciate that.
So my instinct is to tell you

00:30:31.858 --> 00:30:33.858
we're going to figure out a way

00:30:34.660 --> 00:30:37.429
to get parents to know their
rights.
But I don't know what that looks

00:30:37.897 --> 00:30:40.698
like and it is not my bill.
I will follow the lead of walker

00:30:41.340 --> 00:30:43.669
my colleague and friend.
>> when we look at the two

00:30:44.671 --> 00:30:46.671
things I want to reiterate when

00:30:47.673 --> 00:30:49.673
we look at what the law says,

00:30:50.142 --> 00:30:52.770
acs is not getting court orders
to enter homes.

00:30:53.120 --> 00:30:55.120
If they don't want to tell

00:30:55.381 --> 00:30:57.949
people their rights at minimum
they need to stomp down to court

00:30:58.151 --> 00:31:00.151
and get a court order.

00:31:00.320 --> 00:31:02.320
>> I get you I don't want to

00:31:03.890 --> 00:31:05.791
speak for acs I'm not sure that
is their position that don't

00:31:06.325 --> 00:31:08.600
want to tell people their
rights.

00:31:08.628 --> 00:31:11.620
We'll deal with the bill and for
everybody in the room the bill

00:31:11.964 --> 00:31:14.432
will come up in the next couple
months in JANUARY or FEBRUARY

00:31:15.134 --> 00:31:17.836
there will be discussions I'm
not disappearing if anyone wants

00:31:18.380 --> 00:31:20.873
to have conversations about the
bill.
This is I

00:31:23.509 --> 00:31:25.477
a serious topic and I'm
open to it.

00:31:26.746 --> 00:31:29.548
One last thing I have less than
a minute.

00:31:31.150 --> 00:31:33.118
So a couple months back I was
representing and working with a

00:31:33.887 --> 00:31:35.887
family who happens to be here.

00:31:37.357 --> 00:31:39.357
I'm not going to say their name.

00:31:39.959 --> 00:31:41.959
and I was giving them advice how

00:31:43.290 --> 00:31:45.290
to interact with acs.

00:31:47.600 --> 00:31:50.680
And the acs called me up, are
you a parent advocate?

00:31:51.705 --> 00:31:53.705
You can say that.

00:31:54.107 --> 00:31:56.543
I'm asking because I've never
met a parent advocate that do

00:31:56.543 --> 00:31:58.543
what you do.

00:31:58.578 --> 00:32:00.578
What do you mean?

00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:02.880
I've never met a parent advocate

00:32:02.915 --> 00:32:05.383
who did not work with acs to
build the relationship between

00:32:06.786 --> 00:32:08.786
us and the family so that we can

00:32:08.922 --> 00:32:10.922
do our full investigation.

00:32:11.124 --> 00:32:13.124
And I asked her had she advised

00:32:13.393 --> 00:32:15.393
the family of her rights?

00:32:15.462 --> 00:32:17.797
She said we are responsible to
investigate and insure the

00:32:17.797 --> 00:32:20.465
safety.
She knew nothing about advising

00:32:21.267 --> 00:32:24.690
anyone of their rights was not
interested in advising anyone of

00:32:24.700 --> 00:32:26.639
their rights.
But she was very interested in

00:32:27.808 --> 00:32:30.609
becoming my friend and having me
coerce the family into allowing

00:32:32.579 --> 00:32:35.470
her to violate them.
>> I appreciate that.

00:32:35.281 --> 00:32:38.830
>> thank you.
>> joyce, this has been helpful

00:32:38.885 --> 00:32:40.885
and for you and everybody else,

00:32:40.987 --> 00:32:43.889
as long as I'm chair of this
committee and I look to stay

00:32:45.580 --> 00:32:47.580
here as long as possible we will

00:32:47.327 --> 00:32:49.563
have open conversations even if
it's uncomfortable for

00:32:49.563 --> 00:32:51.997
everybody.
I believe everybody from the

00:32:52.532 --> 00:32:54.800
commissioner to every parent
they have earned the right to

00:32:56.436 --> 00:32:57.736
come here and talk about their
experiences.

00:32:59.505 --> 00:33:01.600
Joyce I thank you for coming
today.

00:33:01.642 --> 00:33:04.430
>> absolute last thing I have to
be clear on this.

00:33:04.478 --> 00:33:07.120
Commissioner, I hope you are
still here to understand why we

00:33:07.247 --> 00:33:09.247
fight so hard.

00:33:10.500 --> 00:33:12.851
When I have a system called a
child protection system based on

00:33:13.820 --> 00:33:15.687
the outcomes we know kids are
not being protected.

00:33:16.622 --> 00:33:18.622
If I did the same things to a

00:33:18.826 --> 00:33:20.826
child that happens within the

00:33:21.628 --> 00:33:23.628
child welfare system, we would

00:33:24.310 --> 00:33:26.310
bury me under the earth.

00:33:26.700 --> 00:33:29.201
And so we utilize mandated
reporters to seek families out

00:33:29.903 --> 00:33:31.903
to feed them into a system that

00:33:32.500 --> 00:33:34.973
we know are failing.
Everyday.
This is what we do for reasons

00:33:35.341 --> 00:33:37.844
that families shouldn't come
under the radar.

00:33:38.812 --> 00:33:41.714
Reasons related to poverty why I
push that we have mandated

00:33:42.516 --> 00:33:44.160
supporters not mandated
reporters.

00:33:45.518 --> 00:33:47.518
People who can see that if the

00:33:48.154 --> 00:33:50.956
clothes are dirty acs is not
coming to your house or coming

00:33:51.991 --> 00:33:54.560
to your home with groceries.
Refer the person where they can

00:33:56.230 --> 00:33:58.598
get resources to combat those
difficulties or the challenges

00:33:58.699 --> 00:34:01.600
they MAY be having.
Reporting is not the answer

00:34:01.902 --> 00:34:04.103
because surveillance is not
support and that is the only

00:34:07.340 --> 00:34:09.842
thing that acs provides is
surveillance.
They are strip searched children

00:34:10.911 --> 00:34:13.646
in foster care or at home when
they come and do their
investigation.

00:34:14.214 --> 00:34:16.582
They say it is not a strip
search but that is what it is.

00:34:17.170 --> 00:34:19.510
They are separated from
everything and everyone they

00:34:19.686 --> 00:34:21.686
know and love.

00:34:21.922 --> 00:34:23.789
They have set visit time onset
visit days.

00:34:24.190 --> 00:34:25.991
They have oversight during the
visit period.

00:34:26.626 --> 00:34:28.127
They both eat what they are
served.

00:34:30.397 --> 00:34:32.310
They both change homes and cells
regularly.

00:34:33.934 --> 00:34:36.869
They use garbage bags to change
locations and parole backed they

00:34:37.738 --> 00:34:39.738
utilize the same language.

00:34:42.576 --> 00:34:45.544
Any system built to protect
children sthud not mimic the

00:34:46.680 --> 00:34:48.680
same thing to punish the adults.

00:34:49.383 --> 00:34:51.818
>> thank you for that that was
helpful.
Joyce before you go.

00:34:54.555 --> 00:34:56.555
Let me get this on the record.

00:34:57.240 --> 00:34:59.240
Many of my colleagues in the

00:35:00.860 --> 00:35:03.462
legislature are coming to the
agreement on one point.

00:35:04.265 --> 00:35:07.233
And I mentioned it earlier but I
want to drill down on it because

00:35:08.235 --> 00:35:10.235
you finished with support.

00:35:13.173 --> 00:35:15.173
I believe that acs and ocfs are

00:35:15.342 --> 00:35:17.676
underfunded but that is not from
their point.

00:35:18.878 --> 00:35:21.380
That's our failure as a governor
and the state legislature.

00:35:21.682 --> 00:35:23.682
I believe we have been failing

00:35:25.850 --> 00:35:27.850
kids for years so I understand

00:35:28.789 --> 00:35:30.957
the idea of turning mandated
reporters into supporters.

00:35:32.225 --> 00:35:34.225
And we're going to try to drive

00:35:34.928 --> 00:35:37.663
to get supports in there.
>> you just sent me on the edge

00:35:38.999 --> 00:35:40.999
with that being underfunded.

00:35:42.136 --> 00:35:43.303
At 85 broad street is goldman
sax.

00:35:44.905 --> 00:35:47.607
And if you go to goldman sachs
you can talk to someone in the

00:35:49.610 --> 00:35:51.711
mail room up and they will tell
you goldman sachs never

00:35:52.120 --> 00:35:54.120
continued to invest money in

00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:56.683
something that was failing.
Acs is failing.

00:35:58.520 --> 00:36:00.153
They've failed the parents they
failed the children and failed

00:36:01.122 --> 00:36:03.523
the communities and failed their
own workers that is why they

00:36:03.924 --> 00:36:06.192
have a high turnover rate.
>> I appreciate your testimony

00:36:06.393 --> 00:36:09.162
thank you for your friendship
and your testimony here today.

00:36:09.429 --> 00:36:11.429
>> thank you.

00:36:12.399 --> 00:36:14.399
[Applause]

00:36:14.468 --> 00:36:16.970
Next we would like to call the
deputy commissioner of the

00:36:18.372 --> 00:36:20.840
division of child welfare from
the new york state office of

00:36:22.776 --> 00:36:24.776
children and family services,

00:36:25.179 --> 00:36:27.246
deputy commissioner lisa ghartey
ogundimu.
>> good morning.

00:36:28.482 --> 00:36:30.216
>> thank you for taking the time
to come here.

00:36:32.220 --> 00:36:33.854
>> thank you for having me.
It's lisa ghartey ogundimu thank

00:36:39.894 --> 00:36:41.894
you.

00:36:42.429 --> 00:36:44.330
Good morning chair hevesi and
ranking member.

00:36:45.799 --> 00:36:48.340
And distinguished members I'm
lisa ghartey ogundimu deputy

00:36:49.270 --> 00:36:52.172
commissioner for the division of
child welfare and community

00:36:52.573 --> 00:36:55.800
services at the new york state
office of children and family
services.

00:36:55.843 --> 00:36:57.843
Thank you for the opportunity to

00:37:00.381 --> 00:37:02.515
discuss ocfs's work to transform
and modernize new york's child

00:37:02.616 --> 00:37:04.616
and welfare system.

00:37:05.720 --> 00:37:07.387
I will summarize my written
testimony.

00:37:07.722 --> 00:37:09.722
New york's child welfare system

00:37:10.892 --> 00:37:12.892
is an 18 inflection point.

00:37:14.610 --> 00:37:16.362
For too long child welfare which
impacts families of color has

00:37:17.531 --> 00:37:19.531
been focused on perceived

00:37:19.633 --> 00:37:22.301
individual deficits as the cause
of child abuse and maltreatment

00:37:23.338 --> 00:37:25.706
instead of recognizing the
public health challenge stemming

00:37:26.808 --> 00:37:29.643
from multiple complex causes
that have long-term impacts on

00:37:30.811 --> 00:37:33.213
the overall health and
well-being of children, parents

00:37:34.548 --> 00:37:36.950
and communities.
According to federal statistics,

00:37:40.153 --> 00:37:42.153
in new york, 57% of

00:37:43.625 --> 00:37:46.293
substantiated cps report involve
maltreatment are neglect only

00:37:47.195 --> 00:37:48.428
and far too many are rooted in
poverty.

00:37:50.998 --> 00:37:53.299
It is imperative we refocus.
Improving the health and

00:37:53.667 --> 00:37:56.336
well-being of families and
communities necessitates placing

00:37:57.237 --> 00:37:59.237
economic and concrete supports

00:37:59.941 --> 00:38:01.808
at the center of prevention
strategies.

00:38:02.710 --> 00:38:04.710
Insuring race equity and social

00:38:06.647 --> 00:38:09.490
justice are embedded throughout
the continuum of our effort.

00:38:10.684 --> 00:38:13.319
Our bold vision for modern
icizing child welfare is

00:38:13.687 --> 00:38:16.220
centered on investing in the
parents, families and

00:38:17.492 --> 00:38:20.930
communities we serve.
Deepening existing

00:38:20.461 --> 00:38:22.461
collaborations with our sister

00:38:22.463 --> 00:38:25.165
state agencies, leveraging
federal funding opportunities

00:38:26.968 --> 00:38:29.769
such as family first and
pro-actively addressing
inequities.

00:38:31.372 --> 00:38:33.372
As we transform we must work to

00:38:33.642 --> 00:38:36.477
breakdown silos.
This transformation will move

00:38:37.245 --> 00:38:39.245
new york toward a holistic

00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:41.615
system of child and family
well-being.

00:38:42.784 --> 00:38:45.619
Developing a public health
approach to child abuse and

00:38:47.321 --> 00:38:49.321
maltreatment prevention.

00:38:56.448 --> 00:38:57.951
Our vision building upon
existing work prioritizes
prevention and reimagines the
front door where families
receive help before a call is

00:38:58.466 --> 00:39:01.134
ever made to the state-wide
central register of child abuse

00:39:03.671 --> 00:39:06.339
and maltreatment or the scr.
With your unwavering support new

00:39:07.641 --> 00:39:10.144
york's investment in state
reimbursement for preventative

00:39:10.779 --> 00:39:13.280
services helped us achieve and
maintain one of the lowest

00:39:13.882 --> 00:39:15.882
foster care admission rates in

00:39:16.384 --> 00:39:18.384
the nation.

00:39:18.853 --> 00:39:21.288
Family first authorizes new
federal reimbursement for

00:39:22.723 --> 00:39:24.723
preventative services.

00:39:25.160 --> 00:39:27.394
Ocfs drafted new york's proposed
prevention plan shared

00:39:28.263 --> 00:39:29.596
state-wide with our
stakeholders.

00:39:30.765 --> 00:39:33.000
We are assessing feedback and
preparing to submit our plan to

00:39:34.502 --> 00:39:36.870
the federal government shortly.
Family first also brings

00:39:37.839 --> 00:39:39.720
significant changes to foster
care.

00:39:40.241 --> 00:39:42.241
Reducing the reliance on

00:39:43.678 --> 00:39:46.514
congregate care to prioritize
family based and kinship

00:39:46.681 --> 00:39:48.681
placements.

00:39:49.117 --> 00:39:51.452
Ocfs worked with our local
services district to improve

00:39:52.220 --> 00:39:55.550
foster parent recruitment and
increase the use and support of

00:39:56.791 --> 00:39:58.791
kinship resources.

00:39:59.894 --> 00:40:01.894
Ocfs launched the kin first fire

00:40:02.164 --> 00:40:04.765
wall practice making kinship
placement the presume active

00:40:05.467 --> 00:40:08.680
placement for children to
encourage this work we set a

00:40:08.937 --> 00:40:11.238
target of 30% of all placements
with kin.

00:40:12.206 --> 00:40:14.206
We not only achieved our goal

00:40:14.208 --> 00:40:16.208
but far exceeded it.

00:40:16.244 --> 00:40:18.244
I'm pleased to share our most

00:40:19.381 --> 00:40:21.949
recent data show that 43% of all
foster care placements in new

00:40:23.585 --> 00:40:25.986
york are with kin.
Our vision -- 

00:40:26.540 --> 00:40:28.890
>> can I stop you there.
That is amazing.

00:40:28.890 --> 00:40:30.358
Thank you.
>> that is a heck of an

00:40:30.358 --> 00:40:31.958
achievement.
>> thank you.

00:40:33.461 --> 00:40:36.264
Our vision to transform child
welfare entails grounding our

00:40:39.670 --> 00:40:40.334
work in a trauma informed
approach.

00:40:41.136 --> 00:40:43.136
Your work has been instrumental

00:40:43.605 --> 00:40:45.605
in bringing vital recognition of

00:40:45.807 --> 00:40:47.807
the damage and lasting impacts

00:40:48.276 --> 00:40:50.711
of adverse childhood experiences
to the forefront.

00:40:52.413 --> 00:40:54.582
We know the unfortunate reality
that disparities exist

00:40:55.184 --> 00:40:57.952
throughout the child welfare
system.
Families of color are more

00:40:58.820 --> 00:41:01.722
likely to be involvedded in a
report to the scr and children

00:41:02.424 --> 00:41:05.192
of color are more likely to be
placed in foster care and

00:41:06.895 --> 00:41:08.195
experience slower achievement to
permanency.

00:41:08.930 --> 00:41:11.599
The component in your
legislation requiring mandated

00:41:12.468 --> 00:41:14.468
reporters and cps staff to

00:41:14.670 --> 00:41:17.710
receive training about
recognizing implicit bias and

00:41:18.607 --> 00:41:20.607
decision making, compliments

00:41:21.242 --> 00:41:23.242
work ocfs has been engaged in.

00:41:23.311 --> 00:41:25.311
Such as implementing the blind

00:41:25.413 --> 00:41:28.148
removal process.
This process a homegrown

00:41:29.184 --> 00:41:31.184
strategy from nassau county has

00:41:31.854 --> 00:41:34.455
been shown to be effective in
reducing racial disparity.

00:41:35.290 --> 00:41:37.792
It entails redacting any
personal and demographic

00:41:39.940 --> 00:41:41.962
information about a child or
family when a case is being

00:41:43.640 --> 00:41:44.565
presented before removal is
considered.

00:41:45.100 --> 00:41:47.100
In doing so, the decision to

00:41:47.369 --> 00:41:50.138
remove is based on the facts
related to safety, risk and

00:41:51.600 --> 00:41:53.841
family strengths.
In typical new york fashion we

00:41:55.777 --> 00:41:58.412
are a leader in the smas with
several states following suit to

00:42:00.482 --> 00:42:02.416
implement blind removals.
Unfortunately removing children

00:42:02.852 --> 00:42:04.852
from their homes is sometimes

00:42:05.921 --> 00:42:08.189
necessary to keep them safe.
Accordingly it is crucial that

00:42:09.458 --> 00:42:11.458
the facts warrant the

00:42:11.627 --> 00:42:13.627
significant intervention.

00:42:15.196 --> 00:42:17.196
The scr reform legislation that

00:42:17.332 --> 00:42:20.200
takes effect JANUARY first, 2022
is an important step in

00:42:20.269 --> 00:42:22.269
addressing disparities by

00:42:22.671 --> 00:42:24.671
increasing the legal standard to

00:42:26.708 --> 00:42:28.676
indicate cpr reports and
limiting negative responses to

00:42:30.450 --> 00:42:32.580
families who are impacted
personally and professionally by

00:42:33.748 --> 00:42:35.748
an indicated report.

00:42:36.518 --> 00:42:38.587
A key component of ocfs's
implementation of the law is

00:42:38.587 --> 00:42:41.489
providing individuals
investigated by cps their rights

00:42:43.292 --> 00:42:45.526
in writing and plain language
and accessible in other

00:42:46.562 --> 00:42:48.562
languages for individuals who do

00:42:49.564 --> 00:42:51.564
not speak english.

00:42:52.334 --> 00:42:54.334
Additionally, ocfs continues to

00:42:54.903 --> 00:42:57.706
advocate for state-wide
implementation of family sponsor

00:42:58.841 --> 00:43:00.841
fairs or cares in new york city

00:43:01.310 --> 00:43:03.310
a cps response.

00:43:04.613 --> 00:43:07.448
I want to thank you assemblyman
hevesi again for your

00:43:07.783 --> 00:43:10.684
sponsorship of legislation to
achieve these goals n child

00:43:11.486 --> 00:43:14.456
welfare proceedings families
achieve better outcomes when all

00:43:15.157 --> 00:43:17.157
parties have access to high

00:43:17.326 --> 00:43:19.326
quality legal representation.

00:43:19.428 --> 00:43:22.263
Title 4 federal reimbursement is
available to support the legal

00:43:22.531 --> 00:43:24.531
representation of children and

00:43:25.234 --> 00:43:28.350
parents in child welfare
proceedings.
Along with our partners in state

00:43:29.337 --> 00:43:31.473
government, the office of
indigent legal services and the

00:43:33.476 --> 00:43:35.476
office of court administration

00:43:36.780 --> 00:43:38.113
ocfs has taken the steps to
access this federal funding

00:43:38.113 --> 00:43:40.581
opportunity.
>> I'm proud to say that new

00:43:41.383 --> 00:43:43.851
york's program design requires
baseline standards from

00:43:44.519 --> 00:43:46.519
improving the quality of legal

00:43:47.122 --> 00:43:48.423
representation in new york
state.

00:43:49.358 --> 00:43:52.127
The child welfare system cannot
be truly family centered without

00:43:52.761 --> 00:43:54.761
giving voice to the families it

00:44:00.836 --> 00:44:02.836
is impacted.

00:44:09.963 --> 00:44:12.747
Last year ocfs launched the
parent advisory board with
membership of parents of origin,
foster parents, kin givers an
dop active parents.
In addition we are working to
hire individuals with lived
experience as our family policy
advisers.

00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:17.819
These individuals I envision
will inform child welfare policy

00:44:19.121 --> 00:44:22.890
and programs and regulatory
structure to help improve

00:44:22.825 --> 00:44:24.825
practice state-wide.

00:44:28.300 --> 00:44:30.300
This is for us is a key strategy

00:44:30.766 --> 00:44:33.668
to bring and infuse not only as
was stated a moment ago and I

00:44:34.370 --> 00:44:37.271
appreciate that for us it is not
window dressing it has to be

00:44:37.940 --> 00:44:40.508
state employees working
side-by-side with my entire team

00:44:42.780 --> 00:44:44.780
to help us understand what we're

00:44:44.947 --> 00:44:46.947
doing well and what we need to

00:44:48.250 --> 00:44:50.585
improve what is going wrong.
Ocfs is extraordinarily proud of

00:44:52.880 --> 00:44:54.255
the progress we have made and is
excited to continue working to

00:44:55.557 --> 00:44:58.192
realize the bold vision for
truly transforming new york's

00:44:59.662 --> 00:45:02.197
child welfare system.
However, there is still much

00:45:02.398 --> 00:45:04.398
work to be done.

00:45:04.467 --> 00:45:07.335
Thank you for the opportunity to
testify today and I welcome any

00:45:08.204 --> 00:45:10.104
questions and feedback you MAY
have.

00:45:10.573 --> 00:45:12.730
>> thank you deputy
commissioner.

00:45:12.708 --> 00:45:14.275
And please send regards to the
commissioner.

00:45:15.979 --> 00:45:18.114
She is a friend and does a
really, tough job and I

00:45:18.114 --> 00:45:20.114
appreciate it.

00:45:21.651 --> 00:45:23.552
A couple of topics of note.
Can you talk about the

00:45:24.687 --> 00:45:26.988
importance of kib kinship?
There's going to be a panel here

00:45:28.290 --> 00:45:30.290
that is talking about kinship.

00:45:30.492 --> 00:45:32.492
I am of the opinion that kinship

00:45:32.662 --> 00:45:34.662
is the way to get kids out of

00:45:37.533 --> 00:45:39.935
the to haver dare every in the
room we have expanded the

00:45:40.970 --> 00:45:42.970
definition of kinship to include

00:45:44.807 --> 00:45:46.807
parents not related by blood,

00:45:47.743 --> 00:45:49.743
marriage or adoption, the

00:45:50.180 --> 00:45:52.581
definition of kin includes a
family friend anybody with a

00:45:53.116 --> 00:45:55.450
positive relationship with a kid
that the judge signs off and

00:45:56.520 --> 00:45:57.652
says they have a positive
relationship.

00:45:59.210 --> 00:46:01.523
because we have expanded that
definition we should be using

00:46:02.892 --> 00:46:04.892
more kincare but we need to fund

00:46:05.594 --> 00:46:07.594
it can you talk about kincare?

00:46:08.431 --> 00:46:10.431
>> I think the points that I was

00:46:10.500 --> 00:46:12.500
making earlier in my testimony,

00:46:12.669 --> 00:46:15.437
drive home the importance not
only at the state level but

00:46:16.839 --> 00:46:19.740
within all of our counties
across new york state and the

00:46:20.420 --> 00:46:22.420
ability for new york to exceed

00:46:22.645 --> 00:46:24.645
our target of 30% of children in

00:46:24.713 --> 00:46:27.182
child welfare placed with kin
but hit the 43%.

00:46:28.151 --> 00:46:30.886
We know and the research
supports that a, the decision to

00:46:31.721 --> 00:46:34.356
remove a child from their home
is highly traumatic for the

00:46:34.424 --> 00:46:37.259
child and the family.
And the outcomes for the child

00:46:38.961 --> 00:46:41.429
and the parents the caregivers
are far better when they are

00:46:42.999 --> 00:46:44.999
placed with relatives.

00:46:45.100 --> 00:46:47.770
And relatives being whatever
that definition MAY fit for that
child.

00:46:48.905 --> 00:46:51.206
As you said, we appreciate the
expansion of the definition to

00:46:53.900 --> 00:46:55.844
include as we caulkin relatives
and the neighbor down the hall

00:46:57.146 --> 00:46:59.648
that the child has known their
entire life a schoolteacher as

00:46:59.648 --> 00:47:02.418
well.
When a child and their parents

00:47:02.953 --> 00:47:05.320
are in the caregiver are
together and they know one

00:47:05.822 --> 00:47:08.724
another and they have that bond
that history, the outcomes are

00:47:09.158 --> 00:47:11.158
far better so it's key for all

00:47:12.277 --> 00:47:13.406
of the work we do.
We are working closely with our

00:47:14.597 --> 00:47:16.464
new york state and kinship
navigator in addition to the

00:47:17.330 --> 00:47:19.635
work that I men shod with the
family first, the federal

00:47:21.938 --> 00:47:24.173
government has created a kinship
navigator program expanding

00:47:26.376 --> 00:47:27.576
federal dollars to support this
work.

00:47:28.544 --> 00:47:30.612
The programs have to be on the
federal clearinghouse there is a

00:47:32.115 --> 00:47:34.317
lot of work we're doing -- 
>> does it have to be evidence

00:47:34.317 --> 00:47:36.317
wayed?

00:47:37.200 --> 00:47:38.354
>> at least be in the
clearinghouse.

00:47:39.522 --> 00:47:41.423
And right now, we're all
watching across the country for

00:47:42.592 --> 00:47:44.226
the programs that have been
submitted.

00:47:45.595 --> 00:47:46.862
Ohio has a program that looks
promising.

00:47:48.231 --> 00:47:51.166
We would love our homegrown
policy to make it in first.

00:47:51.734 --> 00:47:53.734
But as you've stated it is

00:47:54.304 --> 00:47:56.304
important to draw the funds down

00:47:56.606 --> 00:47:58.974
whichever program gets in the
clearinghouse we'll look closely

00:47:59.709 --> 00:48:01.709
at implementing so we can have

00:48:01.911 --> 00:48:03.779
enough money to support these
important programs.

00:48:04.147 --> 00:48:06.648
>> I appreciate that.
And I will ask you a question

00:48:08.518 --> 00:48:10.518
but I do not want the answer.

00:48:11.321 --> 00:48:13.756
I believe that the federal
government did a good job with

00:48:14.558 --> 00:48:15.958
the federal families first
legislation.

00:48:17.761 --> 00:48:20.663
The intention is good you got to
get the kids out of congregate

00:48:21.531 --> 00:48:23.933
foster care and I liked they put
money behind it.
There's millions of dollars

00:48:23.933 --> 00:48:25.933
there.

00:48:26.269 --> 00:48:28.638
The problem is you can't fund
programs that are not evidence

00:48:29.640 --> 00:48:32.141
based in new york.
If new york state was to create

00:48:33.176 --> 00:48:36.110
a mechanism where we can fund
programs that are not evidenced

00:48:36.913 --> 00:48:38.913
based on the state's dime and

00:48:41.170 --> 00:48:43.485
document them so that they can
proceed and get money from title

00:48:44.922 --> 00:48:46.922
4 is that something in concept

00:48:48.158 --> 00:48:51.127
that you think might work?
>> ocfs drafted a bold visionary

00:48:51.695 --> 00:48:53.695
plan for prevention here in new

00:48:53.830 --> 00:48:56.131
york state and we have actually
had many conversations with our

00:48:57.233 --> 00:48:59.101
partners at the federal
government.

00:48:59.303 --> 00:49:01.170
We recognize the limitation of
family first.

00:49:01.504 --> 00:49:03.806
We appreciate the goals of
family first and the spirit of

00:49:03.907 --> 00:49:05.907
family first.

00:49:06.510 --> 00:49:08.510
But grounding it in secondary

00:49:08.779 --> 00:49:10.779
prevention is not far enough.

00:49:10.881 --> 00:49:13.449
We have put in our plan the
importance of -- 

00:49:14.184 --> 00:49:16.184
>> can I ask you a question.

00:49:16.486 --> 00:49:18.486
Did phipps only funding

00:49:18.488 --> 00:49:20.222
secondary and no primary
prevention?

00:49:23.560 --> 00:49:25.695
>> their focus is secondary and
tresh area.

00:49:26.330 --> 00:49:28.330
>> that is a mistake.

00:49:29.990 --> 00:49:31.990
>> our plan focuses on the focus

00:49:31.201 --> 00:49:34.103
of primary prevention and making
sure we moved and we find the

00:49:35.338 --> 00:49:37.806
ability to move services as far
upstream as possible.

00:49:38.475 --> 00:49:40.977
So to your point, what we're
trying to do and what we believe

00:49:41.311 --> 00:49:43.311
the federal government will be

00:49:44.248 --> 00:49:46.282
open to as well, is that
recognizing the different needs

00:49:46.917 --> 00:49:49.510
of families and the different
stages of prevention.

00:49:50.187 --> 00:49:52.688
We are in constant conversation
with the federal government

00:49:53.123 --> 00:49:55.758
primary prevention and its
importance.
>> I appreciate it.

00:49:56.994 --> 00:49:58.994
Before I go to the next topic if

00:49:59.563 --> 00:50:01.563
I can ask everybody I know it

00:50:02.232 --> 00:50:04.232
seems like I am a hypocrit.

00:50:04.401 --> 00:50:06.737
Can everybody keep their masks
on.
>> do you want me to mask as

00:50:06.737 --> 00:50:08.737
well.

00:50:10.473 --> 00:50:13.243
>> not when you are speaking.
Quick question about the

00:50:13.778 --> 00:50:15.913
implicit bias and the ace's
training I know they are in

00:50:15.913 --> 00:50:17.913
process.

00:50:19.820 --> 00:50:21.818
Do you have a ball park sense
what that training will look

00:50:21.818 --> 00:50:23.818
like will be done?

00:50:24.554 --> 00:50:26.722
>> we are engaged in providing
implicit bias training now.

00:50:27.757 --> 00:50:30.560
We have been doing this work for
quite sometime we are working on

00:50:32.530 --> 00:50:34.530
the mandated reporter training

00:50:35.399 --> 00:50:37.200
and infusing implicit bias
training as well.

00:50:37.735 --> 00:50:39.735
Early in the beginning of the

00:50:39.803 --> 00:50:42.738
new year but that does not stop
the ongoing work that is
happening now.

00:50:44.474 --> 00:50:46.474
We have infused implicit bias

00:50:46.576 --> 00:50:48.845
training within our case worker
training and infused the

00:50:49.213 --> 00:50:51.213
training within our state

00:50:51.749 --> 00:50:54.170
workforce as well as well as
foster parent training.

00:50:56.787 --> 00:50:58.787
>> one last topic, I appreciate

00:50:59.560 --> 00:51:01.560
your time and the testimony.

00:51:02.893 --> 00:51:05.795
So you mentioned that the title
4e federal money could be used

00:51:06.464 --> 00:51:08.566
to provide attorneys for parents
in child welfare cases?

00:51:08.566 --> 00:51:10.566
>> yes.

00:51:10.568 --> 00:51:13.269
>> that is the greatest thing
ever.
Tell me about that.

00:51:14.538 --> 00:51:16.506
>> a few years ago the federal
government made available to

00:51:17.541 --> 00:51:19.541
states the ability to drawdown

00:51:21.440 --> 00:51:23.440
federal dollars to support

00:51:23.470 --> 00:51:25.470
parental legal representation

00:51:25.850 --> 00:51:27.850
for children and parents in a

00:51:28.919 --> 00:51:30.919
child welfare proceeding.

00:51:30.988 --> 00:51:33.389
There were steps required by the
states to show how you would

00:51:34.825 --> 00:51:36.825
claim it, how the training would

00:51:36.827 --> 00:51:38.827
be provided and we have to

00:51:39.864 --> 00:51:41.131
partner with our sister state
agencies.

00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:45.000
We have developed mou's and ils

00:51:45.102 --> 00:51:47.102
is the lead agency across the

00:51:47.638 --> 00:51:49.572
state providing training to
attorneys.

00:51:51.642 --> 00:51:54.210
The counties have to send us an
mou new york state to show how

00:51:54.711 --> 00:51:56.913
they will track the cases and
provide the claims.

00:51:58.390 --> 00:52:00.450
>> is it a request for the
county to do this or allowed?

00:52:01.852 --> 00:52:04.421
Every county is open to do this.
>> do they know this?

00:52:05.423 --> 00:52:06.823
>> everybody knows.
>> fantastic.

00:52:09.793 --> 00:52:12.395
>> how come I don't know.
>> the reason I'm asking is we

00:52:14.310 --> 00:52:16.310
have a bill I'm looking at ryan

00:52:16.267 --> 00:52:18.869
from kincare in kin cases to
provide an attorney I want to

00:52:19.871 --> 00:52:21.871
make sure maybe those two things

00:52:22.640 --> 00:52:24.674
fit I'm getting a thumb's up.
>> everybody does know.

00:52:24.742 --> 00:52:26.742
>> everybody knows it.

00:52:28.178 --> 00:52:30.178
I'm late to the game thank you.

00:52:35.887 --> 00:52:37.887
I think that is all I have.

00:52:39.891 --> 00:52:41.891
>> I have one question, you

00:52:42.226 --> 00:52:44.961
indicated that kinship
placements is 43%.

00:52:46.664 --> 00:52:48.431
What had it been before it
became an emphasis?

00:52:49.634 --> 00:52:52.269
And I know the definition has
changed that MAY have changed

00:52:54.372 --> 00:52:56.372
how many people are eligible to

00:52:57.475 --> 00:52:58.808
be depending how kinship is
defined.

00:53:02.813 --> 00:53:04.813
But what had it been prior to

00:53:05.316 --> 00:53:07.316
looking at that target of 30%?

00:53:10.880 --> 00:53:11.288
>> I would like to frame the
work.

00:53:12.423 --> 00:53:15.920
There are different types of kin
placement.
We have direct placement and

00:53:16.828 --> 00:53:19.195
those are families many of whom
MAY have been involved with the

00:53:21.650 --> 00:53:24.330
child welfare system or not want
any further involvement with the

00:53:24.836 --> 00:53:26.836
child welfare system and you

00:53:29.608 --> 00:53:32.109
have kin who come in as and take
advantage of or provide supports

00:53:34.412 --> 00:53:37.213
through the kin gap program.
Our numbers were varied across

00:53:38.182 --> 00:53:40.182
the state with family first and

00:53:40.384 --> 00:53:42.384
the work that we knew about

00:53:42.687 --> 00:53:44.687
being trauma informed forced the

00:53:45.490 --> 00:53:47.858
state to say we need to have a
shared baseline.

00:53:48.893 --> 00:53:50.893
We were below that 30% and

00:53:50.928 --> 00:53:53.363
figured if we could get their
first we would do well.

00:53:55.466 --> 00:53:57.834
We were in the low double-digits
so it was an effort in new york

00:53:58.302 --> 00:54:01.710
city and had been higher than
the rest of the state but we

00:54:02.640 --> 00:54:04.640
needed to get the entire state

00:54:04.876 --> 00:54:07.144
up to a baseline and then
continue moving from there.

00:54:08.679 --> 00:54:10.679
And although we've hit that 43%

00:54:11.149 --> 00:54:13.984
we continue to work harder and
it should be 100% of children.

00:54:14.185 --> 00:54:16.185
>> and obviously with the change

00:54:16.454 --> 00:54:18.923
of the definition, that should
aid in try toggle vaccinate

00:54:20.892 --> 00:54:22.393
those numbers?
>> definitely.

00:54:23.528 --> 00:54:26.196
It's been extremely helpful.
>> thank you.

00:54:27.699 --> 00:54:30.660
>> deputy commissioner, one
personal prerogative.

00:54:30.968 --> 00:54:32.968
I have been on a state-wide

00:54:34.339 --> 00:54:36.339
childcare tour led by my senate

00:54:36.575 --> 00:54:38.575
colleague brisport who was great

00:54:38.576 --> 00:54:40.576
and everywhere I go and we've

00:54:41.479 --> 00:54:43.479
done city stops and upstate in

00:54:43.648 --> 00:54:45.648
long island everywhere I go

00:54:45.783 --> 00:54:48.652
people are grateful for the
stabilization grants and the

00:54:49.620 --> 00:54:50.887
ease those have gotten out the
door.

00:54:52.491 --> 00:54:54.758
I was the guy yelling at you for
several years to get the money

00:54:54.893 --> 00:54:57.127
out the door.
Amazing job with the grants

00:54:57.495 --> 00:54:59.495
thank you to you and

00:55:00.432 --> 00:55:03.400
commissioner pool and governor
governor hochul and really

00:55:03.968 --> 00:55:05.968
excited about working with

00:55:06.204 --> 00:55:08.204
governor hochul with her focus

00:55:09.140 --> 00:55:11.209
on childcare and issues in this
area.
Thank you for your testimony and

00:55:11.209 --> 00:55:12.843
time today.
>> thank you so much.

00:55:14.579 --> 00:55:16.880
>> thank you, ma'am.
>> let's get going.

00:55:17.782 --> 00:55:20.484
Next group and remember I'm
bringing you up in group but

00:55:43.341 --> 00:55:45.376
everybody gets their time.
MS. Hackett.

00:55:46.440 --> 00:55:48.512
>> my family and I have been
impacted by the weaponnization

00:55:50.348 --> 00:55:52.348
of acs on JUNE 8th I received a

00:55:52.784 --> 00:55:55.619
call stating someone called the
anonymous line and reported my
family.

00:55:57.155 --> 00:55:59.155
She would not tell me what I was

00:55:59.524 --> 00:56:01.524
being reported for but I had to

00:56:02.494 --> 00:56:03.761
comply or have the police at my
door.

00:56:04.763 --> 00:56:06.763
After telling herrion

00:56:09.367 --> 00:56:10.634
her, I don't know
you.

00:56:11.503 --> 00:56:13.503
She told me a person reported my

00:56:14.873 --> 00:56:16.540
family of child endangerment and
malnourish.

00:56:18.760 --> 00:56:20.812
She asked me if I thought anyone
would be doing this maliciously

00:56:22.781 --> 00:56:24.781
and the only place I could think

00:56:24.783 --> 00:56:26.885
it could come from was a staff
member at my children's

00:56:26.885 --> 00:56:28.885
elementary school.

00:56:29.554 --> 00:56:32.122
She stated the person says my
youngest children are skinny and

00:56:33.291 --> 00:56:35.959
their cheeks are hallow and
their bones were sticking out.

00:56:36.661 --> 00:56:38.661
She was able to give my address

00:56:39.765 --> 00:56:42.567
and told me it was only for my
two younger children though I

00:56:45.670 --> 00:56:47.905
have older child.
Who would have access to this

00:56:47.973 --> 00:56:49.973
information with the threat of

00:56:50.408 --> 00:56:53.277
the police, I consented and I'm
here to tell you the miranda

00:56:54.213 --> 00:56:57.115
rights and child welfare bills
needs to pass as it will support

00:56:58.150 --> 00:57:01.180
families who are are the subject
of malicious intent at the hands

00:57:01.453 --> 00:57:02.987
of the new york city department
of education.

00:57:05.230 --> 00:57:07.230
I was an active parent pta

00:57:07.292 --> 00:57:09.393
PRESIDENT And co-chair district
14 council PRESIDENT My husband

00:57:10.962 --> 00:57:13.650
was the title one rep and none
of that mattered to the staff

00:57:13.650 --> 00:57:15.650
members.

00:57:15.334 --> 00:57:17.769
They wanted to silence me and
maintain power and harm my

00:57:19.838 --> 00:57:22.106
family and acs gave them the
avenue to do it violently.

00:57:24.476 --> 00:57:26.476
The doe and ps147 principal used

00:57:29.715 --> 00:57:31.715
me as an engagerred parent and

00:57:32.851 --> 00:57:34.851
discarded me.

00:57:34.887 --> 00:57:37.722
for six years or more 45,000 of
which was received during the

00:57:38.423 --> 00:57:40.910
school closure during the
pandemic.

00:57:40.592 --> 00:57:43.327
Uncovering the shortfalls of the
budget, curriculum and

00:57:45.196 --> 00:57:47.196
advocating against antiblackness

00:57:47.800 --> 00:57:49.800
and anti-[Inaudible]

00:57:49.835 --> 00:57:52.236
And I was attacked for it.
The principal lied to me, lied

00:57:53.605 --> 00:57:56.207
to parents, represented herself
as an advocate for families and

00:57:56.808 --> 00:57:58.808
children and pitted a community

00:57:59.478 --> 00:58:02.346
against each other.
I was meeting with the
superintendent and the principal

00:58:03.248 --> 00:58:05.248
to discuss my children's safety

00:58:05.918 --> 00:58:08.190
on JUNE second I told her how
she abandoned my family and

00:58:08.621 --> 00:58:10.621
other families and put us in

00:58:10.623 --> 00:58:13.491
harm for retaliation.
My husband and I both told them

00:58:14.393 --> 00:58:16.393
they needed to tell the truth as

00:58:16.762 --> 00:58:18.762
my children's direct safety is

00:58:19.331 --> 00:58:21.331
at risk, as well as my personal

00:58:22.401 --> 00:58:25.300
safety in the community by not
addressing the violence when a

00:58:27.390 --> 00:58:29.390
parent passed around a antiblack

00:58:29.708 --> 00:58:32.510
and transphobic flyer which my
child's teacher agreed with.

00:58:33.178 --> 00:58:36.113
They put us in harm.
We told them we would not be

00:58:36.448 --> 00:58:38.448
pushed out of the school.

00:58:38.483 --> 00:58:40.852
My children were remote 100% of
the time during the pandemic but

00:58:42.555 --> 00:58:45.560
on that day we took them to the
school that was the only time

00:58:46.358 --> 00:58:48.358
they saw them in person.

00:58:48.761 --> 00:58:51.195
After that meeting I received a
acs call on JUNE 8.

00:58:52.831 --> 00:58:55.333
No one cared about the welfare
of my children and offered

00:58:56.268 --> 00:58:57.602
support for food if they were
concerned.

00:58:58.905 --> 00:59:00.905
With 18 dayses left of the

00:59:01.474 --> 00:59:03.474
school year they ran to acs

00:59:03.809 --> 00:59:06.611
because they knew the lies could
be viewed as fact.

00:59:08.800 --> 00:59:10.800
On JUNE 21, I along with other

00:59:10.382 --> 00:59:12.382
parent advocates met with the

00:59:13.180 --> 00:59:15.180
chancellor, the deputy

00:59:15.221 --> 00:59:17.221
chancellor, superintendent,

00:59:17.523 --> 00:59:19.991
face, the new acting
superintendent along with the

00:59:21.930 --> 00:59:23.495
director of lgbtq programming to
finally address the violence and

00:59:24.697 --> 00:59:27.665
racism in our district.
All are are aware of what

00:59:28.800 --> 00:59:31.680
happened to knee yet nothing has
been done to support my family

00:59:32.710 --> 00:59:34.240
and families like mine beyond
the safety transfer that is not

00:59:34.240 --> 00:59:36.675
enough.
My family was the only one to

00:59:37.310 --> 00:59:38.510
receive a case.
Why?

00:59:39.912 --> 00:59:42.347
The difference between myself
and other families that were

00:59:42.881 --> 00:59:44.881
advocating is that I'm black.

00:59:45.217 --> 00:59:47.285
No one saw the humanity in me or
my children.

00:59:48.220 --> 00:59:50.220
Despite thigh meeting reporting

00:59:50.657 --> 00:59:53.392
to osi I have not received a
follow-up meeting.

00:59:56.620 --> 00:59:58.620
How can they be trusted.

00:59:58.163 --> 01:00:00.163
Anonymous reporting is used to

01:00:00.266 --> 01:00:02.266
harm parents and families.

01:00:03.202 --> 01:00:05.169
Anonymous reporting is
weaponnized against black and

01:00:06.405 --> 01:00:08.405
brown families I would never let

01:00:10.420 --> 01:00:12.430
a stranger in my home let alone
during a pandemic.

01:00:13.179 --> 01:00:14.946
My family was guilty and had to
prove our innocence.

01:00:15.781 --> 01:00:17.781
No one fact checked the person

01:00:18.617 --> 01:00:20.719
who called and they were
emboldened to continue this

01:00:20.719 --> 01:00:23.121
violent behavior.
This is not about the safety of

01:00:23.756 --> 01:00:25.123
children this is about power and
control.

01:00:26.125 --> 01:00:28.125
The impact of this violent

01:00:28.428 --> 01:00:30.996
practice outweighs the intent of
what anonymous report something
supposed to do.

01:00:31.998 --> 01:00:33.932
It is no secret that staff
members and administrative

01:00:35.340 --> 01:00:37.335
members use acs as police to
control families.

01:00:37.436 --> 01:00:39.436
There are other families who

01:00:39.672 --> 01:00:41.672
have to deal with this violence.

01:00:42.542 --> 01:00:44.542
I have ptsd behind this and

01:00:45.411 --> 01:00:47.613
other mothers who have had their
children kidnapped.

01:00:50.383 --> 01:00:52.484
It only perpetuates the issues.
Case workers do not tell you

01:00:52.585 --> 01:00:54.585
your rights.

01:00:54.754 --> 01:00:57.589
On that phone call she told me
if I did not consent the police

01:00:57.890 --> 01:01:00.659
would be sent to my home.
The process is invasive.

01:01:02.262 --> 01:01:04.730
Checking our cabinets our fridge
our living arrangements.

01:01:05.364 --> 01:01:07.364
We have been parents for 14

01:01:07.700 --> 01:01:09.367
years and never been suggested
of violence.

01:01:09.902 --> 01:01:12.705
My husband is a chef with
degrees of his own and none of

01:01:12.705 --> 01:01:15.173
that mattered.
Although the case was closed and

01:01:16.943 --> 01:01:19.445
my family's livelihood was put
into jeopardy, we were at the

01:01:19.979 --> 01:01:21.979
beck and call of acs.

01:01:22.150 --> 01:01:24.150
I did not leave cares the cares

01:01:24.170 --> 01:01:26.170
unit thinking we were safe and

01:01:26.180 --> 01:01:28.153
this would never happen again.
There's nothing in place that

01:01:28.521 --> 01:01:30.521
will stop this violence from

01:01:30.790 --> 01:01:32.230
happening to me over and over
again.

01:01:33.159 --> 01:01:35.494
This only perpetuates it and
allows people to call when they

01:01:36.663 --> 01:01:39.364
are angry and destroy people's
lives.
As I talk to you right now and

01:01:39.966 --> 01:01:41.966
this is public I'm putting

01:01:42.502 --> 01:01:45.437
myself at more risk for causing
surveillance with the safety

01:01:46.500 --> 01:01:48.500
transfer my family is not safe

01:01:49.208 --> 01:01:51.710
under the doe has with acs.
As a parent who is participating

01:01:53.680 --> 01:01:55.680
in the strike for remote, acs

01:01:57.550 --> 01:02:00.180
aalways used as a tactic for
coercion to bring my children

01:02:02.210 --> 01:02:04.210
into the school.

01:02:04.257 --> 01:02:07.920
I present well I'm maier red I
have three degrees but I am

01:02:08.294 --> 01:02:11.263
still a black woman with black
children that no one cares
about.

01:02:11.498 --> 01:02:14.199
what happens to the parents who
feel they cannot speak up?

01:02:15.602 --> 01:02:18.470
Through all of this I've lost 20
pounds there is a physical toll

01:02:19.205 --> 01:02:21.139
and mental toll and a trust has
been broken.

01:02:23.409 --> 01:02:25.409
I will never trust the doe as

01:02:25.411 --> 01:02:27.411
they are in bed with acs.

01:02:27.914 --> 01:02:29.914
We need to support the miranda

01:02:30.217 --> 01:02:32.785
rights and child welfare and
kstleddal reporting bill to end

01:02:33.319 --> 01:02:35.319
the cycle of violence.

01:02:35.755 --> 01:02:37.755
I was also told by the acs

01:02:37.924 --> 01:02:39.924
worker if I had her white

01:02:40.960 --> 01:02:42.960
counter part as my acs case

01:02:43.362 --> 01:02:44.529
worker that I would have scared
him.

01:02:45.732 --> 01:02:48.267
What about me presents is scary?
Because I know my rights and I

01:02:49.200 --> 01:02:51.603
would not allow anyone to come
into my home and speak to my

01:02:52.172 --> 01:02:54.573
children in the manner which
they do?

01:02:55.642 --> 01:02:58.477
I implore you to look at this
from a point of view of impacted

01:02:59.245 --> 01:03:01.947
parents and what happens beyond
the laws and the things written

01:03:04.484 --> 01:03:06.852
on paper.
[Applause]
>> thank you for your testimony

01:03:09.623 --> 01:03:12.157
and before I get to the other
parents who will be testifying,

01:03:13.526 --> 01:03:15.526
just want to say I am the lead

01:03:16.195 --> 01:03:18.630
sponsor of the confidential
reporting bill.

01:03:18.866 --> 01:03:20.866
You heard the commissioner of

01:03:22.169 --> 01:03:25.370
acs on the record say we don't
get to choose who we investigate

01:03:25.438 --> 01:03:28.207
it's by law by statute.
There is a problem with racism

01:03:29.209 --> 01:03:31.209
before it gets to the portfolio

01:03:31.678 --> 01:03:33.678
acs there is a triggering event

01:03:33.713 --> 01:03:36.810
which is a harassing call took
place for you.

01:03:36.850 --> 01:03:38.850
I am of the same opinion that

01:03:39.386 --> 01:03:41.487
some of my colleagues that
anonymous report something not

01:03:41.755 --> 01:03:44.290
something that should be part of
the child welfare system.

01:03:44.491 --> 01:03:46.491
We've seen evidence in other

01:03:47.661 --> 01:03:50.362
states where you've gotten away
from anonymous reporting system

01:03:52.980 --> 01:03:54.980
and the number of cases has not

01:03:54.101 --> 01:03:56.101
gone up and kids' safety has not

01:03:56.103 --> 01:03:58.739
been put in jeopardy.
I will be looking and pushing

01:03:58.739 --> 01:04:01.574
for that bill.
It is not an easy lift but we

01:04:02.476 --> 01:04:04.476
will be fighting for the bill

01:04:05.145 --> 01:04:07.145
nobody should be using the acs

01:04:08.782 --> 01:04:10.782
or removal of your kid to punish

01:04:10.850 --> 01:04:13.586
somebody it's boyfriends, and
girlfriends and a guy in the

01:04:14.455 --> 01:04:16.455
subway this is a mechanism where

01:04:17.291 --> 01:04:19.425
if you are malicious you can rip
someone's life apart.

01:04:20.660 --> 01:04:23.596
And so that is bad.
But for me from a policy level

01:04:24.464 --> 01:04:26.464
and I want to get this on the

01:04:27.634 --> 01:04:29.634
record, too, the fact that new

01:04:29.870 --> 01:04:31.870
york state and government in

01:04:32.339 --> 01:04:34.907
general is engaged in separating
parents from families and I get

01:04:36.443 --> 01:04:39.145
that I understand if there's
extreme circumstances.

01:04:40.947 --> 01:04:43.282
But removing a parent from their
kid is a trauma.

01:04:44.584 --> 01:04:47.253
It is a childhood trauma.
It's one of those events that

01:04:47.955 --> 01:04:50.757
has the potential to have that
kid's life doomed or defined.

01:04:51.959 --> 01:04:54.427
We railed against it when the
kids coming across the border

01:04:55.280 --> 01:04:57.280
were separated from their

01:04:57.300 --> 01:04:59.990
families and we rail against it
when kids are locked up when

01:04:59.990 --> 01:05:01.934
they are young.
But yet we continue to keep the

01:05:02.100 --> 01:05:04.336
practice going.
We've got to do everything we

01:05:05.472 --> 01:05:07.472
can to make sure we are not

01:05:07.775 --> 01:05:10.476
unfairly getting kids aware from
their parents it is a tra matt

01:05:10.978 --> 01:05:13.446
that ruins lives.
I will be pushing that bill and

01:05:14.548 --> 01:05:15.748
your testimony was helpful
today.

01:05:16.650 --> 01:05:17.850
>> I want to say one other
thing.

01:05:20.453 --> 01:05:23.223
With all the antibias trainings
there are still staff members

01:05:23.958 --> 01:05:26.192
and teachers that are advising
other teachers when they have

01:05:28.950 --> 01:05:30.950
difficult students to call acs.

01:05:31.980 --> 01:05:33.980
So for support of that bill will

01:05:34.267 --> 01:05:37.236
help mitigate that but all the
'ty bias training does not

01:05:37.571 --> 01:05:39.571
mitigate what is happening in

01:05:39.840 --> 01:05:41.840
the school system and acs is

01:05:42.109 --> 01:05:44.577
giving the staff members and the
doe permission to violate

01:05:45.179 --> 01:05:47.313
families over and over again.
>> I appreciate that.

01:05:49.883 --> 01:05:51.883
Let me just I mentioned this and

01:05:51.918 --> 01:05:54.587
I want to get this on the
record.
I have been hearing from parents

01:05:57.580 --> 01:05:59.426
across the state if they have a
reasonable help objection to

01:05:59.627 --> 01:06:01.627
sending their kids to school

01:06:02.162 --> 01:06:04.897
they should not be threatened by
acs I'm hearing that is
happening.

01:06:06.000 --> 01:06:08.000
We called acs and they are

01:06:09.269 --> 01:06:11.270
coming out with rules to we can
disseminate to make sure that

01:06:11.438 --> 01:06:13.438
that is not happening.

01:06:14.750 --> 01:06:16.443
If that is happening let us
know.
>> it's happening.

01:06:17.812 --> 01:06:20.470
I'm removing my kids from the
department of education and home

01:06:20.470 --> 01:06:22.416
schooling because of that
threat.
>> thank you for your testimony

01:06:22.416 --> 01:06:24.416
I appreciate it.

01:06:26.687 --> 01:06:28.721
>> thank you.
>> MR. Collins.

01:06:29.923 --> 01:06:31.923
The floor is yours, sir.

01:06:32.693 --> 01:06:34.693
>> thank you.

01:06:34.729 --> 01:06:36.729
Good afternoon.

01:06:37.465 --> 01:06:39.465
I'm Dajuan collins I am an

01:06:39.633 --> 01:06:41.734
impacted parent and a member of
parents action network.

01:06:42.903 --> 01:06:44.237
Thank you for the opportunity to
testify.

01:06:46.740 --> 01:06:48.941
My son isaiah was born JANUARY
3, 2007.

01:06:50.770 --> 01:06:52.770
I found out he was my son when

01:06:52.280 --> 01:06:54.981
he was a few months old thanks
to a paternity test.

01:06:55.316 --> 01:06:57.316
He was in the system because he

01:06:57.952 --> 01:07:00.520
whats born with a positive
toxicology screening for
cocaine.

01:07:01.355 --> 01:07:03.355
I went through the process of

01:07:04.758 --> 01:07:06.325
getting him back establishing my
paternity.

01:07:07.862 --> 01:07:10.430
Once I got custody of my son acs
tried to make me take a urine

01:07:11.399 --> 01:07:13.399
test I was confused because I

01:07:13.701 --> 01:07:15.602
had gotten my son back and had
done nothing wrong.

01:07:17.671 --> 01:07:20.106
There is no reason that acs
should ask me for a drug test

01:07:20.774 --> 01:07:22.774
and the case worker was pushy

01:07:23.176 --> 01:07:25.176
and no one told me my rights.

01:07:25.346 --> 01:07:28.140
I knew joyce mcmillan.
The parent advocate who informed

01:07:29.417 --> 01:07:31.417
me of my rights I was able to

01:07:33.200 --> 01:07:35.889
tell acs they cannot force me to
undergo a drug test without a

01:07:36.190 --> 01:07:37.590
court order but they harassed
me.

01:07:39.930 --> 01:07:41.427
I was arrested later that year
on unrelated charges.

01:07:45.266 --> 01:07:48.340
My son was safe at home with his
grandmother.
A case worker came to my home

01:07:49.136 --> 01:07:51.136
and took my son from the

01:07:51.672 --> 01:07:54.307
grandmother under the guise of
an emergency removal they put

01:07:55.309 --> 01:07:58.770
him in foster care with a
stranger.
I didn't know anything about

01:07:58.479 --> 01:08:01.215
family law but I wanted to know
what the emergency was that made

01:08:02.383 --> 01:08:04.651
it so important that acs took my
son out of my house.

01:08:05.953 --> 01:08:08.121
I had to fight to get the
transcripts from my attorney and

01:08:08.723 --> 01:08:11.191
when I did there was no evidence
of what the emergency was to

01:08:12.326 --> 01:08:13.826
allow the emergency to have been
undertaken.

01:08:14.928 --> 01:08:16.162
The emergency removal was
illegal.

01:08:17.799 --> 01:08:20.434
While I was incarcerated did I
did everything I could to make

01:08:21.369 --> 01:08:23.369
sure my son was ok.

01:08:24.380 --> 01:08:26.673
i was asking about his health,
education, speech therapy even

01:08:27.208 --> 01:08:29.208
my chip case worker testified

01:08:30.878 --> 01:08:33.146
that I did everything that an
incarcerated father do and set

01:08:34.916 --> 01:08:36.150
the bar high for other dads in
prison.

01:08:37.318 --> 01:08:39.318
My mom and sister were fighting

01:08:39.621 --> 01:08:42.289
to bring him home from foster
care from new york to chicago.

01:08:43.591 --> 01:08:44.925
My north vietnam is a
registered -- 

01:08:45.593 --> 01:08:47.593
my mom is a registered nurse.

01:08:47.628 --> 01:08:50.530
They did everything they could
to become kin guardians and met

01:08:51.533 --> 01:08:54.340
all the requirements gave
fingerprints and had the home

01:08:54.402 --> 01:08:56.402
inspected and improved.

01:08:57.205 --> 01:08:59.205
They had his room ready with a

01:08:59.807 --> 01:09:02.676
board saying welcome home isaiah
and bought toys everything was

01:09:04.110 --> 01:09:05.378
setup for his arrival but it
never happened.

01:09:06.847 --> 01:09:09.483
The agency failed to submit
paperwork to the judge.

01:09:09.751 --> 01:09:11.751
The toys are sitting in the

01:09:14.255 --> 01:09:17.224
garage at this point.
Despite my efforts to stay

01:09:18.493 --> 01:09:21.428
connected to my son and mom and
sister's efforts to become

01:09:24.298 --> 01:09:26.298
guardians acs changed the

01:09:26.668 --> 01:09:28.369
unification straight to adoption
adoption.

01:09:29.638 --> 01:09:31.405
There was no plan for the
relative.

01:09:31.840 --> 01:09:34.675
A judge terminated my parental
rights because I failed to

01:09:35.843 --> 01:09:38.578
provide an adoptive resource for
my son while incarcerated.

01:09:39.514 --> 01:09:41.781
But this was the agency's role I
did everything I was required to

01:09:42.750 --> 01:09:45.152
do but the agency was required
to assist and plan with me and

01:09:45.820 --> 01:09:48.656
they didn't do that.
The agency didn't cooperate with

01:09:50.580 --> 01:09:53.260
me but instead in two letters
that I received while I was in

01:09:54.195 --> 01:09:56.195
prison the case worker told me

01:09:56.330 --> 01:09:58.330
due to my incarceration I cannot

01:09:58.533 --> 01:10:00.533
plan for the son therefore the

01:10:02.571 --> 01:10:03.904
birth mom and has been
noncompliant.

01:10:04.773 --> 01:10:07.708
They are seeking a change
straight to adoption.

01:10:08.376 --> 01:10:11.178
The judge blamed me for failing
to fulfill this requirement.

01:10:12.413 --> 01:10:13.647
And terminated my rights to my
son.

01:10:14.716 --> 01:10:17.830
14 years later in MAY of this
year through the grace of GOD

01:10:18.520 --> 01:10:20.855
and my efforts I was able to see
my son again for the first time.

01:10:22.491 --> 01:10:24.425
His adoptive parent allowed me a
three-and-a-half hour visit.

01:10:26.928 --> 01:10:28.962
It's the only time I've seen him
since 2016.

01:10:30.398 --> 01:10:32.966
And I let him know I have been
fighting for him every loving

01:10:33.968 --> 01:10:36.703
him 14 years later the toys my
mom bought are still in the
garage.

01:10:38.440 --> 01:10:40.440
So I need him to know we need

01:10:40.876 --> 01:10:43.844
reform and accountability.
There are people who get

01:10:44.145 --> 01:10:46.280
promoted behind me case after
all of this.

01:10:47.282 --> 01:10:49.683
The judge who removed my son is
now the head judge.

01:10:50.351 --> 01:10:52.351
I would love to see the judges

01:10:52.387 --> 01:10:54.522
and attorneys and case workers
come under scrutiny.

01:10:55.390 --> 01:10:57.390
I had a court appointed attorney

01:10:57.759 --> 01:10:59.759
and he failed to adequately

01:11:00.161 --> 01:11:02.161
represent me he did not inform

01:11:02.297 --> 01:11:04.297
me to appeal my son's removal

01:11:04.299 --> 01:11:06.733
order or the placement order my
son's placement in foster care.

01:11:09.404 --> 01:11:11.400
I lost the right to appeal those
those.

01:11:11.440 --> 01:11:14.375
There were other decisions made
throughout my case that I know

01:11:15.744 --> 01:11:18.145
now I could have appealed but I
found it out after the fact.

01:11:19.147 --> 01:11:21.147
The state needs to provide

01:11:22.417 --> 01:11:24.918
support for the defenders that
have parent advocates and wrap

01:11:25.486 --> 01:11:27.486
around support.

01:11:27.589 --> 01:11:29.589
And parents need to be told what

01:11:30.793 --> 01:11:32.793
their rights are when they

01:11:33.195 --> 01:11:35.195
interact with acs I was lucky to

01:11:35.197 --> 01:11:37.197
have joyce tell me my rights but

01:11:37.532 --> 01:11:40.234
no case worker they tried to
bully me and failed to follow

01:11:40.969 --> 01:11:43.837
through on planning that could
have enabled me to keep my son.

01:11:44.505 --> 01:11:47.108
The system looks to us as
criminals but we need to start

01:11:48.277 --> 01:11:50.277
looking at them as criminals

01:11:50.379 --> 01:11:52.647
until the law cuts both ways
there cannot be justice into

01:11:52.647 --> 01:11:55.316
thank you.
Let me ask you a question there

01:11:55.751 --> 01:11:58.686
are a couple things thank you
for sharing.

01:11:58.953 --> 01:12:01.322
That has to be difficult for
everybody who is sharing today I

01:12:01.423 --> 01:12:03.423
appreciate it.

01:12:03.459 --> 01:12:06.427
The adoptive resource could you
tell me about that, they said

01:12:07.830 --> 01:12:09.797
you were not able to provide a
resource for your -- 

01:12:11.366 --> 01:12:14.100
I think that tips into another
issue and legislation but if you

01:12:14.102 --> 01:12:15.836
could tell me about that a
little bit?

01:12:16.638 --> 01:12:19.730
>> when I was in prison, I
received two letters from the

01:12:20.410 --> 01:12:22.410
planning agency.

01:12:23.545 --> 01:12:25.847
And they told me that due to my
incarceration I cannot plan for

01:12:26.715 --> 01:12:29.417
my son.
Therefore the birth mom -- 

01:12:30.118 --> 01:12:31.419
>> even after you are out?
>> period.

01:12:33.388 --> 01:12:35.624
>> you cannot plan because you
are -- 
what if you come out in two

01:12:35.624 --> 01:12:38.158
days?
>> it didn't matter because when

01:12:39.610 --> 01:12:40.995
I did come home they did not
plan with me.

01:12:42.498 --> 01:12:45.233
The attorneys kept telling knee
to get a one bedroom apartment

01:12:46.935 --> 01:12:49.870
and I did that and the next
thing was you need to surrender

01:12:51.606 --> 01:12:54.900
your parental rights were the
only things that were offered

01:12:54.900 --> 01:12:55.542
me.
>> ok.

01:12:57.460 --> 01:12:59.460
Let me step back and I will talk

01:12:59.448 --> 01:13:01.448
about the surrendering rights in

01:13:02.284 --> 01:13:04.284
a second.

01:13:06.922 --> 01:13:08.922
You're telling me that the

01:13:08.924 --> 01:13:10.924
impetus for you losing the kid

01:13:11.626 --> 01:13:14.396
your son was that you didn't
pay?
>> that I didn't plan.

01:13:14.597 --> 01:13:17.980
>> that you didn't plan.
When you tried to plan they

01:13:17.266 --> 01:13:19.268
wouldn't let you plan because
you were in prison.

01:13:19.268 --> 01:13:21.268
>> right.

01:13:21.737 --> 01:13:24.138
>> is there a law that they can
say that is allowed?

01:13:27.876 --> 01:13:29.910
>> the controlling case if I can
remember, there was a new york

01:13:31.747 --> 01:13:33.747
court of appeals case I cannot

01:13:34.817 --> 01:13:36.817
remember off the tip of my

01:13:36.819 --> 01:13:38.819
tongue diligent efforts to me.

01:13:39.488 --> 01:13:41.488
And one of those diligent

01:13:42.724 --> 01:13:44.692
efforts was to assist an
incarcerated parent for the

01:13:44.926 --> 01:13:47.495
planning of the future of my
son.
>> but it's beyond that.

01:13:48.163 --> 01:13:50.163
There should be and we should

01:13:50.166 --> 01:13:53.100
talk about this I'm talking to
my lawyer friends there MAY need

01:13:54.503 --> 01:13:56.503
to be a statute that says you

01:13:56.672 --> 01:13:58.672
cannot deny somebody the ability

01:13:59.308 --> 01:14:01.410
to plan for taking care of their
kids because they are

01:14:01.410 --> 01:14:03.410
incarcerated.

01:14:03.478 --> 01:14:05.478
>> there is a case on that.

01:14:05.480 --> 01:14:07.480
>> I want to see it in law.

01:14:07.750 --> 01:14:09.752
I am the legislature.
So, yes, that is something we

01:14:09.752 --> 01:14:11.752
should look into.

01:14:13.689 --> 01:14:16.900
But that is an outrage in and of
itself.
What we are looking for and

01:14:16.492 --> 01:14:18.492
thank you for the testimony what

01:14:19.294 --> 01:14:21.294
we are looking for is ways that

01:14:21.463 --> 01:14:23.864
the system drives a wedge or
goes to separate families from

01:14:24.767 --> 01:14:27.702
kids that is what I'm trying to
avoid at all costs.

01:14:28.838 --> 01:14:30.505
So I really appreciate that is
very helpful.

01:14:31.730 --> 01:14:33.942
>> I think the issue even with
me being in prison the agency

01:14:34.443 --> 01:14:36.443
was responsible for placing my

01:14:37.312 --> 01:14:39.312
son with a willing relative.

01:14:40.820 --> 01:14:42.718
And my mom my son's grandmother
came forth in the beginning and

01:14:43.186 --> 01:14:45.153
she had gone through everything
they told her.

01:14:47.290 --> 01:14:49.991
The judge ordered an expedited
and the state of new york agreed

01:14:50.726 --> 01:14:53.294
to pay for the placement of my
son in chicago and again the

01:14:54.290 --> 01:14:56.290
planning agency did not submit

01:14:58.234 --> 01:15:00.435
the paperwork for placement for
a relative.

01:15:01.304 --> 01:15:03.304
>> we should talk about this off

01:15:04.600 --> 01:15:06.808
line that was helpful I
appreciate it.
>> do you have any questions.

01:15:07.576 --> 01:15:10.178
>> I don't right now I have
questions when I get back to my

01:15:10.646 --> 01:15:12.413
office about looking up laws in
this area.

01:15:13.415 --> 01:15:15.415
Because some of this is contrary

01:15:16.686 --> 01:15:18.860
to my understanding of the
process.

01:15:20.323 --> 01:15:22.691
But if my memory is correct and
with that experience then I

01:15:23.926 --> 01:15:25.794
agree with the chair that's a
dramatic issue.

01:15:26.328 --> 01:15:28.328
>> the court of appeals case

01:15:29.198 --> 01:15:31.132
came to mind the matter of
sheila g.

01:15:32.201 --> 01:15:34.503
>> you have a memory like mine.
>> it comes and goes.

01:15:35.271 --> 01:15:37.271
>> I'm with you.

01:15:38.341 --> 01:15:40.942
>> and also social service law
384 section b.

01:15:43.446 --> 01:15:45.446
>> you are a very dangerous man.

01:15:46.415 --> 01:15:49.317
>> due diligence into that is
great.
And the two of your points.

01:15:50.486 --> 01:15:52.486
I hear you about the money for

01:15:52.522 --> 01:15:55.570
the bronx defenders I get that
and appreciate that.

01:15:55.925 --> 01:15:57.925
We talked about assisting

01:15:58.761 --> 01:16:00.761
parents get right to counsel and

01:16:05.334 --> 01:16:07.334
then the change of goal from

01:16:08.738 --> 01:16:10.738
reunification to surrendering

01:16:11.541 --> 01:16:13.541
your parental rights, we are

01:16:13.576 --> 01:16:16.378
going to have to talk more about
that.
That shouldn't be something that

01:16:16.379 --> 01:16:19.800
happens quickly.
That should be a last resort.

01:16:19.181 --> 01:16:21.181
Thank you for your help I

01:16:22.585 --> 01:16:24.585
appreciate it.

01:16:24.587 --> 01:16:26.321
>> MS. Wright the floor is
yours.

01:16:27.824 --> 01:16:29.824
Thank you.

01:16:29.859 --> 01:16:31.859
>> I'm desiree wright with ja

01:16:32.428 --> 01:16:34.428
mack for families I have been

01:16:35.398 --> 01:16:37.732
involved with acs family
regulation system since I was 17

01:16:38.134 --> 01:16:40.134
years old.

01:16:40.936 --> 01:16:43.771
Acs took my son from me when I
was 17 and he was in foster care

01:16:43.807 --> 01:16:45.807
for three years.

01:16:46.276 --> 01:16:48.276
His time in foster care damaged

01:16:48.578 --> 01:16:50.578
him I'm 43 and we are still

01:16:50.847 --> 01:16:53.682
being harassed by acs I am a
parent advocate and work for

01:16:54.383 --> 01:16:56.451
moving from family power to make
changes to the system.

01:16:57.620 --> 01:16:59.620
The other day I got a knock on

01:17:00.220 --> 01:17:02.220
the door from acs and I felt

01:17:02.525 --> 01:17:04.493
like that 17-year-old girl all
over again.

01:17:05.528 --> 01:17:07.528
I forgot my rights.

01:17:09.899 --> 01:17:11.899
The ptsd kicks if I'm anxious,

01:17:11.968 --> 01:17:13.968
up all night, I get scared and I

01:17:14.300 --> 01:17:15.237
feel like I'm going to lose my
family.

01:17:16.839 --> 01:17:19.341
And it brings back all those
memories that are not healthy

01:17:20.430 --> 01:17:22.430
for me.

01:17:22.746 --> 01:17:25.714
Most parents who have dealt with
acs have the same reaction.

01:17:28.510 --> 01:17:30.510
It is a traumatic situation.

01:17:31.954 --> 01:17:34.689
Acs and the child welfare system
targets black and brown

01:17:35.859 --> 01:17:37.859
communities by illegally

01:17:38.610 --> 01:17:39.662
shipping their child away from
them.

01:17:41.131 --> 01:17:43.565
When acs comes in my home it
doesn't feel like they are to

01:17:43.666 --> 01:17:46.401
help you.
Acs is more powerful than the
police.

01:17:47.203 --> 01:17:49.203
And that is not ok.

01:17:49.605 --> 01:17:52.507
The criminal justice system has
a burden of proof but the family

01:17:54.911 --> 01:17:57.179
court only requires a
preponderance of evidence.

01:17:57.547 --> 01:17:59.547
The criminal justice system has

01:18:00.383 --> 01:18:02.918
more laws to protect criminals
for their freedom but there are

01:18:03.353 --> 01:18:06.221
no laws to protect mothers to
keep their families together.

01:18:08.658 --> 01:18:09.991
Parents need to be read miranda
rights.

01:18:11.194 --> 01:18:13.296
Just like they do for criminals.
Police do not investigate things

01:18:14.631 --> 01:18:17.600
for 90 days why should I have to
be investigated for 90 days?

01:18:18.401 --> 01:18:20.836
Why do criminals get a second
chance at life when mothers are

01:18:22.710 --> 01:18:24.339
not given a second chance to
raise their children?

01:18:25.942 --> 01:18:28.810
Every time acs comes to my home
they make my five-year-old strip

01:18:30.480 --> 01:18:33.115
down so they can check his body
for bruises and make me leave

01:18:33.283 --> 01:18:35.283
the room to question him.

01:18:37.120 --> 01:18:39.788
It is illegal for minors to be
questioned without a consenting

01:18:41.291 --> 01:18:43.392
adult why is it legal for acs to
do this?

01:18:44.727 --> 01:18:46.194
Parents rights are violated all
day long.

01:18:46.730 --> 01:18:48.730
We have no rights as parents and

01:18:49.366 --> 01:18:51.901
there are no laws protecting us.
Even with anonymous reporting

01:18:52.736 --> 01:18:54.736
the person who made the call is

01:18:54.738 --> 01:18:56.738
not penalized for wasting the

01:19:01.100 --> 01:19:03.779
people's time but it is harming
the parents and their families

01:19:04.515 --> 01:19:07.490
and interrupting their lives for
what reason?

01:19:07.718 --> 01:19:10.120
This experience is traumatizing
for families, parents and

01:19:10.120 --> 01:19:12.120
children.

01:19:13.560 --> 01:19:16.250
And every time acs comes to my
son, comes my son has to ask me

01:19:17.260 --> 01:19:19.260
why are they coming and why are

01:19:19.128 --> 01:19:21.128
they looking at his body.

01:19:21.365 --> 01:19:24.300
What am I supposed to tell a
five-year-old when he is asking

01:19:25.135 --> 01:19:27.135
me questions like that.

01:19:27.437 --> 01:19:29.405
Acs need new laws.
>> MS. Wright thank you for the

01:19:30.400 --> 01:19:32.400
testimony and I know that was

01:19:34.770 --> 01:19:36.770
hard.

01:19:36.446 --> 01:19:38.747
So let me focus on this area of
your testimony really caught me

01:19:41.840 --> 01:19:43.986
that you said the ptsd when they
knock on the door and I believe

01:19:44.540 --> 01:19:46.540
others are nodding.

01:19:53.596 --> 01:19:55.633
Talk to me a little bit about
that.
Talk to me a little bit about
that.

01:19:55.633 --> 01:19:57.330
>> sure, no problem.
Well, I graduated.

01:19:59.336 --> 01:20:00.703
I'm in school for criminal
justice.

01:20:02.500 --> 01:20:04.500
When acs came to my house, not

01:20:04.574 --> 01:20:06.876
too long ago, all everything
that I'm learning everything

01:20:07.310 --> 01:20:09.310
that I'm retaining, everything

01:20:09.446 --> 01:20:11.446
that I know is right just goes

01:20:12.567 --> 01:20:15.218
out the window and I feel all
over like that 17-year-old that

01:20:17.388 --> 01:20:19.388
acs ran over years ago.

01:20:19.923 --> 01:20:22.325
And so all of that anxiety comes
in.
I cannot sleep.

01:20:22.960 --> 01:20:24.960
I'm up.

01:20:24.961 --> 01:20:27.663
I'm hugging my child.
I'm feeling like he is going to

01:20:28.632 --> 01:20:30.632
be removed from my home.

01:20:30.835 --> 01:20:32.835
And these are things that are

01:20:33.337 --> 01:20:35.738
unhealthy for a mom to eastern
raise a child.

01:20:36.907 --> 01:20:39.609
So when my child asking me
questions about why are these

01:20:39.977 --> 01:20:42.945
people coming to his house and
trying to question him, I don't

01:20:44.140 --> 01:20:46.882
have answers.
And so that takes me right back

01:20:47.584 --> 01:20:49.419
to that little girl all over
again.
>> I appreciate that.

01:20:50.921 --> 01:20:53.623
Thank you for sharing the really
means a lot.

01:20:54.258 --> 01:20:57.930
Look, part of the reason why I
took over this committee is

01:20:57.261 --> 01:20:59.261
because I believe the trauma is

01:21:01.131 --> 01:21:03.632
the enemy on all fronts.
Certainly for families.

01:21:04.601 --> 01:21:06.601
I can only imagine the trauma

01:21:07.104 --> 01:21:09.740
how I would react if someone
tried to take my 12-year-old

01:21:09.740 --> 01:21:12.575
away from me.
It would not be good.

01:21:13.944 --> 01:21:15.944
>> I have a 24-year-old my son

01:21:16.680 --> 01:21:18.680
is 24 and he does not like acs

01:21:19.449 --> 01:21:21.449
and that is the trauma that he

01:21:22.180 --> 01:21:23.385
has dealt with being in foster
care.

01:21:24.989 --> 01:21:26.989
>> so the thing that we are

01:21:27.291 --> 01:21:29.291
working the most on is to

01:21:29.493 --> 01:21:30.860
prevent and help kids who are
traumatized.

01:21:31.929 --> 01:21:34.363
Can you tell me a tiny bit more
about your son's experience

01:21:34.832 --> 01:21:37.660
about the strip searches.
I know it's rough.

01:21:38.350 --> 01:21:40.350
But my problem is this is not to

01:21:40.671 --> 01:21:43.540
point fingers at acs and this
needs to be clear any worker or

01:21:44.410 --> 01:21:46.410
anybody the point is it's not

01:21:46.610 --> 01:21:48.278
about for me, the person who is
doing it.

01:21:49.346 --> 01:21:52.248
It's about the system is setup
so badly we're forcing case

01:21:54.251 --> 01:21:56.652
workers into these to make
decisions all kinds of problems

01:21:57.855 --> 01:21:59.855
with this all over the place.

01:22:00.925 --> 01:22:02.925
But traumatizing kids when the

01:22:03.127 --> 01:22:05.261
state traumatizes kids it drives
me insane.

01:22:06.297 --> 01:22:08.866
Do me a favor tell me more about
that so everybody understands

01:22:08.866 --> 01:22:11.340
it.
>> the other day when they came

01:22:11.969 --> 01:22:14.470
to my house he was in the tub.
And he has to come out of the

01:22:16.607 --> 01:22:19.342
tub so they can see his body.
And he didn't understand that.

01:22:20.544 --> 01:22:22.112
And he is like.
>> how old?

01:22:23.447 --> 01:22:25.447
>> he is five and looking at me

01:22:25.449 --> 01:22:27.449
like why you said people are not

01:22:28.485 --> 01:22:30.860
supposed to see me in my
birthday suit.

01:22:32.220 --> 01:22:34.925
And these people are literally
like making me turn around and

01:22:35.827 --> 01:22:37.827
at five they don't you had that.

01:22:39.797 --> 01:22:41.731
And that's traumatizing to them.
>> 100%.
>> wow.

01:22:42.990 --> 01:22:44.990
>> thank you for sharing that.

01:22:45.350 --> 01:22:47.403
I appreciate it so you know we
are this committee's particular

01:22:48.500 --> 01:22:50.500
work and we've talked about

01:22:50.241 --> 01:22:53.760
policy but the overall general
thing we are going for we are

01:22:54.245 --> 01:22:57.147
looking to prevent trauma from
happening to kids and if it's

01:22:57.848 --> 01:22:59.848
happened we are looking to get

01:22:59.984 --> 01:23:01.984
them assistance and looking to

01:23:02.286 --> 01:23:04.286
close off the avenues where

01:23:06.156 --> 01:23:08.240
government is doing the
traumatizing.

01:23:08.993 --> 01:23:10.727
So there's one clap there, that
is ok.

01:23:14.650 --> 01:23:15.265
Now I got to pay that guy 5
bucks.

01:23:16.500 --> 01:23:18.500
We passed a bill to end the

01:23:18.636 --> 01:23:20.804
school to prison pipeline where
young elementary school kids so

01:23:21.272 --> 01:23:23.706
we have a bill and waiting for
the governor to sign it saying

01:23:25.877 --> 01:23:28.645
you cannot arrest a kid under 12
for anything except a homicide

01:23:31.849 --> 01:23:34.418
but no kids under 12 have ever
been convicted of homicides in

01:23:34.418 --> 01:23:37.320
new york state.
No more traumatizing kids.

01:23:38.890 --> 01:23:40.890
You take kids in vulnerable

01:23:40.324 --> 01:23:43.920
circumstances who MAY or MAY not
have been traumatized and the

01:23:43.262 --> 01:23:46.196
government gets involved and we
make it worse that is the
problem.

01:23:46.998 --> 01:23:48.998
>> thank you for sharing.

01:23:49.133 --> 01:23:51.133
>> can I add one more thing.

01:23:52.169 --> 01:23:55.500
I did 10 years in federal
prison.
And like he was saying there are

01:23:56.107 --> 01:23:58.107
no laws in there state laws to

01:23:59.430 --> 01:24:01.912
help moms losing their rights to
their children while
incarcerated.

01:24:04.582 --> 01:24:06.582
So with that, it's like the 15,

01:24:06.951 --> 01:24:08.951
22 rule if a mom is doing 10

01:24:09.200 --> 01:24:11.131
years she has no rights to fight
for her kids.

01:24:11.756 --> 01:24:13.623
We don't get paperwork in
federal prison.

01:24:15.860 --> 01:24:17.860
letting us know that the case is

01:24:18.396 --> 01:24:20.396
in front of the judge to be cpr

01:24:20.632 --> 01:24:23.333
there are a lot of women in
federal prison and state prison

01:24:23.968 --> 01:24:26.690
losing their rights to their
kids illegally.

01:24:26.871 --> 01:24:28.906
>> we'll take a look into it.
Thank you.
Everybody thank you for your

01:24:28.906 --> 01:24:30.906
testimony today.

01:24:31.642 --> 01:24:33.642
I appreciate it.

01:24:33.878 --> 01:24:36.847
>> the next panel let's get my
kinship friends.

01:24:38.650 --> 01:24:41.618
David and catharine cook and
ryan johnson from the kin

01:24:42.620 --> 01:24:44.620
navigator.

01:24:46.591 --> 01:24:48.591
Good afternoon.

01:24:49.794 --> 01:24:51.794
>> good afternoon.

01:24:52.263 --> 01:24:54.263
>> how are are you, sir?

01:24:54.399 --> 01:24:56.166
>> thanks for hosting.
>> my pleasure.

01:24:56.768 --> 01:24:59.369
>> thanks for having us.
>> please the floor is yours

01:25:00.138 --> 01:25:01.672
let's start talking about
kinship.

01:25:02.874 --> 01:25:05.376
Go for it.
>> there's been a lot said about

01:25:05.376 --> 01:25:07.376
kinship care.

01:25:07.678 --> 01:25:09.678
I came with prepared notes and

01:25:10.849 --> 01:25:12.849
they've changed a lot since the

01:25:13.719 --> 01:25:15.419
first hour-and-a-half of today's
hearing.

01:25:16.254 --> 01:25:18.188
Kinship caregivers are
definitely, the preferred

01:25:18.957 --> 01:25:21.325
setting for children unable to
remain in the home of a parent.

01:25:24.395 --> 01:25:26.395
By the way, I am ryan johnson

01:25:26.664 --> 01:25:28.664
the kinship 23456 gator and

01:25:29.234 --> 01:25:31.234
thank you for being here today.

01:25:31.303 --> 01:25:33.303
Just to reflect a little bit on

01:25:33.605 --> 01:25:35.605
some of the testimony you heard

01:25:36.775 --> 01:25:38.775
from ocfs and acs the number of

01:25:39.277 --> 01:25:41.277
children in kinship foster care

01:25:42.246 --> 01:25:44.315
is 7201 children right now in
kinship foster care in new york

01:25:44.315 --> 01:25:46.315
state.

01:25:48.286 --> 01:25:50.821
That leaves over 187,000
children not receiving the

01:25:51.823 --> 01:25:53.823
benefits of foster care but who

01:25:54.492 --> 01:25:56.492
are being raised by kinship

01:25:57.595 --> 01:25:59.696
caregivers in new york state
187,000 not getting the support

01:26:00.765 --> 01:26:02.765
of the foster care system.

01:26:03.235 --> 01:26:05.235
>> they have access to kin

01:26:05.470 --> 01:26:07.905
supports and kinship supports?
>> in new york state we fund

01:26:10.675 --> 01:26:12.276
kinship supports at 2.5 million
dollars.

01:26:12.944 --> 01:26:14.944
In new york city there are only

01:26:14.946 --> 01:26:17.648
three targeted kinship case
management programs for the

01:26:17.815 --> 01:26:19.815
entire city.

01:26:21.486 --> 01:26:24.121
They each receive $150,000 to
run their support service.

01:26:25.891 --> 01:26:28.225
So sure, they have kinship
caregivers have access to

01:26:29.527 --> 01:26:32.496
kinship supports the kinship
that have gator is my program is

01:26:35.633 --> 01:26:37.633
funded at $320,000 by the state

01:26:37.636 --> 01:26:39.537
and we cover the state 62
counties in new york state.

01:26:40.806 --> 01:26:42.806
When we talk about using kin as

01:26:43.642 --> 01:26:45.642
the first placement resource for

01:26:46.440 --> 01:26:48.412
children, that is proven to be a
really good resource for kids

01:26:50.615 --> 01:26:52.116
when it comes to permanency and
stability.

01:26:52.884 --> 01:26:54.884
But we have not invested in

01:26:55.888 --> 01:26:58.723
those families in providing
stability, supportive services,

01:26:59.491 --> 01:27:02.159
funds to make sure that those
kids can have access to

01:27:03.280 --> 01:27:05.162
childcare, can have access to
respite services.

01:27:06.164 --> 01:27:09.133
We talked about legal services
at one point during the hearing.

01:27:09.567 --> 01:27:11.802
Parents are represented.
Children are represented.

01:27:12.738 --> 01:27:14.405
But guess who is not
represented?

01:27:15.207 --> 01:27:17.207
Kinship caregivers.

01:27:18.477 --> 01:27:21.112
We are not sitting here asking
kinship caregivers to step up

01:27:23.181 --> 01:27:24.882
and take children in ideal
circumstances.

01:27:25.951 --> 01:27:28.520
>> can I jump in.
Earlier, don't worry about the

01:27:29.387 --> 01:27:31.756
time this is an important topic.
We need to delve into this a

01:27:32.691 --> 01:27:35.426
little bit.
earlier somebody I think it was

01:27:36.995 --> 01:27:39.630
the deputy commissioner for ocfs
mentioned there is a possibility

01:27:41.900 --> 01:27:43.900
to drawdown money from title 4e

01:27:44.569 --> 01:27:46.470
would that be for kin?
>> not for kin.

01:27:48.207 --> 01:27:50.775
>> you need a new state fund to
support kincare givers and you

01:27:51.110 --> 01:27:53.110
need that for lawyers.

01:27:53.479 --> 01:27:55.179
Tell me what the ideal world is,
please.

01:27:55.614 --> 01:27:58.282
>> the ideal world is when
kinship caregivers are

01:27:58.684 --> 01:28:00.418
approached about becoming
caregivers of children

01:28:01.620 --> 01:28:04.421
especially by the child welfare
system that not only are they

01:28:04.556 --> 01:28:07.910
given information about their
custody rights and legal rights

01:28:07.760 --> 01:28:10.261
which, by the way, you passed a
bill a couple years ago

01:28:10.629 --> 01:28:13.464
indicating when they are
approached they need to be given

01:28:13.465 --> 01:28:15.900
written information.
Doesn't always happen, of
course.

01:28:16.335 --> 01:28:18.335
But they need access to

01:28:18.637 --> 01:28:20.604
attorneys who know what they are
talking about, too.

01:28:21.873 --> 01:28:23.873
We need training for attorneys

01:28:24.310 --> 01:28:26.878
who and we need attorneys for
kinship caregivers especially

01:28:27.146 --> 01:28:29.146
when they are involved in the

01:28:29.181 --> 01:28:31.449
child welfare system and asked
to go to family court.

01:28:33.118 --> 01:28:35.953
When this is happening what
we're here to talk about is

01:28:36.755 --> 01:28:38.755
hidden foster care when this is

01:28:38.890 --> 01:28:40.890
happening under the table, but

01:28:41.193 --> 01:28:43.795
when you're asking a kinship
caregiver to go to family court

01:28:45.498 --> 01:28:47.599
and cps is saying if you do that
we'll back out of the case.

01:28:48.934 --> 01:28:51.135
You are pitting caregivers
against biological parents.

01:28:51.970 --> 01:28:54.538
This was a government
intervention in this family's

01:28:54.873 --> 01:28:56.873
life and now the government has

01:28:57.142 --> 01:28:59.142
said we'll step away if you guys

01:28:59.211 --> 01:29:01.211
make this a family fight.

01:29:02.181 --> 01:29:04.816
because you've told the kinship
caregiver to get custody and

01:29:05.584 --> 01:29:08.252
you've expected the kinship
caregiver to pay for legal

01:29:08.287 --> 01:29:11.222
representation otherwise.
I just got off the phone with a

01:29:12.424 --> 01:29:14.424
family yesterday who called and

01:29:15.161 --> 01:29:16.394
told me that we can't find the
parents.

01:29:17.263 --> 01:29:19.831
The parents dropped the kids off
at our home and they are gone.

01:29:21.534 --> 01:29:24.502
But the court will not proceed
with this hearing for custody if

01:29:27.500 --> 01:29:29.500
we can't serve the parents.

01:29:29.474 --> 01:29:31.474
So now these kids are in limbo

01:29:31.877 --> 01:29:34.847
with no custody order, with no
resources because they can't get

01:29:35.147 --> 01:29:37.147
access to public assistance

01:29:37.416 --> 01:29:39.851
because they don't have access
to the social security card or

01:29:40.219 --> 01:29:42.219
the birth certificate these are

01:29:42.221 --> 01:29:44.221
the problems families face when

01:29:44.723 --> 01:29:47.525
they do not have legal
representation.
So we're here to talk about

01:29:48.427 --> 01:29:50.427
hidden foster care.

01:29:50.463 --> 01:29:52.463
>> we'll get there.

01:29:56.435 --> 01:29:58.203
>> which is the which is the practice of child
protective services coming into

01:29:59.939 --> 01:30:02.540
a family's home and under duress
or under threat telling them

01:30:02.541 --> 01:30:04.976
that if you don't comply with
having your child go live with a

01:30:05.477 --> 01:30:07.478
family member, we will initiate
a removal.

01:30:09.150 --> 01:30:11.150
So we're bypassing court

01:30:11.217 --> 01:30:13.217
oversight of these facilitated

01:30:13.419 --> 01:30:16.388
placements, and they go
untracked, they go without a

01:30:18.224 --> 01:30:20.625
permanency plan, they go without
regulation, and from county to

01:30:21.260 --> 01:30:22.593
county they vary on how they
operate.

01:30:23.529 --> 01:30:25.798
>> can I jump in and tell you
why I think that's happening?

01:30:25.798 --> 01:30:27.599
>> please do.
>> it's cheaper.

01:30:28.301 --> 01:30:30.301
>> absolutely.

01:30:30.603 --> 01:30:31.903
>> and it's cheaper in the short
term.

01:30:34.173 --> 01:30:36.410
in the lock long term it is
remarkably more expensive and

01:30:39.645 --> 01:30:42.313
it's also hurting families, so
what ryan is talking about is

01:30:43.116 --> 01:30:45.651
the hidden foster care system -- 
I'm going to reiterate a little

01:30:46.552 --> 01:30:48.552
bit because we have a bill and

01:30:48.654 --> 01:30:50.723
we want everyone to under this.
This is a real issue.

01:30:50.723 --> 01:30:53.359
This is country wide.
This is not just a new york

01:30:53.359 --> 01:30:54.993
issue.
There are circumstances, and I'm

01:30:55.961 --> 01:30:57.962
greig with you for two seconds,
ryan -- agreeing with you for

01:30:58.397 --> 01:31:01.100
two seconds, it happens all the
time where the cps worker comes

01:31:01.935 --> 01:31:03.935
into a house and gives an

01:31:04.337 --> 01:31:06.538
ultimatum and then the kid is
separated from the parents, so

01:31:06.539 --> 01:31:08.539
right there trauma.

01:31:09.609 --> 01:31:11.609
Then the kid goes to stay with a

01:31:11.677 --> 01:31:13.813
kin relative, and that kin
relative gets no money, no

01:31:13.813 --> 01:31:15.813
assistance.

01:31:16.148 --> 01:31:18.884
They don't have rights for
educational decisions.
Am I correct?

01:31:19.552 --> 01:31:21.220
And they don't have rights for
memorabilia decisions.

01:31:22.880 --> 01:31:24.924
P so basically someone's showing
up and saying, here's a brand

01:31:24.924 --> 01:31:27.627
new kid for you.
Good luck.
And the reason why that's

01:31:27.627 --> 01:31:30.295
happening is it's because
cheaper for the state than to

01:31:30.629 --> 01:31:32.765
provide the minimum basic
services that we should ore

01:31:32.765 --> 01:31:35.466
supports for the original
family, which should be the
goal.

01:31:38.438 --> 01:31:41.106
So I believe that it is a huge
problem.
Can you speak to the magnitude,

01:31:41.140 --> 01:31:43.342
how often you think this is
happening in new york state?

01:31:43.876 --> 01:31:46.411
And remember, this is hidden.
We don't even track this yet.

01:31:46.445 --> 01:31:48.814
So, please.
>> I mean week absolutely.

01:31:48.814 --> 01:31:51.116
So it's hidden.
So every data point that's out

01:31:51.984 --> 01:31:53.984
there is an estimation of how

01:31:54.220 --> 01:31:56.220
many children, but, you know,

01:31:56.689 --> 01:31:59.324
for ever ten children -- this is
according to child trends -- for

01:32:00.426 --> 01:32:02.426
every ten children that enter

01:32:02.495 --> 01:32:04.629
foster care, another seven were
diverted in hidden foster care.

01:32:05.131 --> 01:32:07.131
>> so that means, for me, new

01:32:07.667 --> 01:32:09.667
york state has intervened in

01:32:10.700 --> 01:32:12.605
families, separated the
families, not tracked them, no

01:32:14.574 --> 01:32:16.642
supports, have no idea, hey,
mom, grappled ma, cousin, here's

01:32:18.845 --> 01:32:21.179
the kid, good luck.
We don't care.

01:32:22.782 --> 01:32:25.383
It is remarkably bad policy.
And the region no one has been

01:32:25.951 --> 01:32:28.220
talking about it a lot is
because the if I can is going to

01:32:28.288 --> 01:32:29.889
cost tons of money.
Doesn't matter.

01:32:30.323 --> 01:32:32.858
We're going to talk about this
and have this conversation

01:32:33.493 --> 01:32:36.361
because I believe that again the
state is traumatizing kids and

01:32:37.697 --> 01:32:40.432
families, separating them, and
then putting kincare givers who

01:32:41.667 --> 01:32:44.169
we should be supporting because
they are heroic, I don't know -- 

01:32:45.238 --> 01:32:47.238
there he is.

01:32:47.340 --> 01:32:50.142
That was actually very funny.
But they are heroic and they
need our support.

01:32:51.277 --> 01:32:53.277
So this is a way for the state

01:32:54.481 --> 01:32:57.182
to save money when we waste 911
in the long term.
It's got to stop.

01:32:57.483 --> 01:33:00.452
Thank you for bringing this
issue up.
>> and I want to just mention

01:33:01.320 --> 01:33:03.320
that not every kinship child

01:33:03.957 --> 01:33:06.759
needs to come into foster care.
Not every kinship caregiver

01:33:08.428 --> 01:33:10.428
needs to be a certified kinship

01:33:10.730 --> 01:33:12.765
caregiver but family that do
request that support should have

01:33:13.633 --> 01:33:14.867
access to become a foster
parent.

01:33:15.968 --> 01:33:17.968
If they've been asked by child

01:33:19.238 --> 01:33:21.700
welfare to take a child who has
been trum advertised already.

01:33:21.441 --> 01:33:23.441
I think to your point about the

01:33:23.443 --> 01:33:25.311
expense of supporting kinship
caregivers in the written

01:33:26.179 --> 01:33:28.179
testimony we have a break-out of

01:33:29.249 --> 01:33:30.449
the estimated cost of foster
care.

01:33:31.284 --> 01:33:33.284
We have just about 17,000 kids

01:33:33.820 --> 01:33:35.820
in foster care in new york

01:33:37.357 --> 01:33:40.192
state, just under, and we spend
$1.3 billion.
>> because foster care is the

01:33:41.461 --> 01:33:42.828
most expensive way to take care
of kids.

01:33:44.397 --> 01:33:46.397
>> but you can offer robust

01:33:46.533 --> 01:33:48.400
services through localized
programs, through kinship

01:33:48.701 --> 01:33:50.569
navigator programs, and the
deputy commissioner mentioned

01:33:52.472 --> 01:33:54.639
that ohio is a part of the
clearinghouse.
That happened this week.

01:33:55.943 --> 01:33:57.877
So there is a kinship MAY have
gator program model that can

01:33:59.913 --> 01:34:01.913
draw down on a 50% reimbursement

01:34:01.948 --> 01:34:03.948
of anything the state spends.

01:34:04.351 --> 01:34:06.952
Ohio state spends $8 million on
their kinship navigator
program.

01:34:08.154 --> 01:34:11.230
We spend $2.5 million.
>> and your kinship navigator

01:34:11.257 --> 01:34:12.824
program is in how many
counties?

01:34:13.727 --> 01:34:15.895
>> we have a statewide kinship
navigator which is information

01:34:17.130 --> 01:34:19.899
and referral in all expo and we
haveel 14 localized case kinship

01:34:20.670 --> 01:34:22.701
navigator programs around the
state that covers 25 counties.

01:34:24.170 --> 01:34:26.171
>> what is chsb clearly not
enough.

01:34:27.173 --> 01:34:29.173
And you and I speak offline and

01:34:29.944 --> 01:34:31.944
nerd out a lot so I'm going to
step out.

01:34:32.412 --> 01:34:34.412
>> ryan and thinks organization

01:34:36.283 --> 01:34:38.283
do a lot what they have so we

01:34:38.485 --> 01:34:41.220
want to like that.
my name is dave kruk.

01:34:41.688 --> 01:34:44.156
My wife kate.
Our son is a senior in high

01:34:44.224 --> 01:34:45.657
school and we live in
schenectady.

01:34:47.695 --> 01:34:49.695
My sister is 46-year-old and she

01:34:50.230 --> 01:34:52.131
suffered with bipolar disode and
drug addiction.

01:34:53.166 --> 01:34:54.433
She has three conditions 17, 18
and 13.

01:34:55.268 --> 01:34:57.136
Two of the the boys are on the
autism spectrum.

01:34:58.138 --> 01:35:00.606
>> since 2010 when the boys were
eight, six and two, david and I

01:35:02.675 --> 01:35:04.843
have opened our home and our
hearts dozens of times.

01:35:06.280 --> 01:35:08.514
In five instances over a
decade.
Schenectady county children and

01:35:09.983 --> 01:35:12.452
family services has been
involved.
We even became certified a

01:35:12.452 --> 01:35:15.210
foster parents thinking that
this way we would receive some

01:35:15.455 --> 01:35:17.858
support from the county.
In our experience,

01:35:17.858 --> 01:35:19.858
representatives of the county

01:35:20.393 --> 01:35:22.393
always put us in a safety plan.

01:35:23.797 --> 01:35:26.332
>> turns out you can be an
integral component of safety
plan and not each know about it

01:35:27.201 --> 01:35:29.201
because we were and we didn't.

01:35:30.304 --> 01:35:32.939
A safety plan is shadow foster
care.
A social worker can start a

01:35:33.340 --> 01:35:35.841
safety plan without telling the
parent or the caregiver and it

01:35:36.643 --> 01:35:38.277
can be terminated at any time if
they determine the home

01:35:39.680 --> 01:35:41.680
environment of the biologicallal

01:35:41.916 --> 01:35:43.750
parent is in their words safe
enough.

01:35:45.386 --> 01:35:48.540
>> from 2010 to 2015, whenever
we suspected by sister-in-law

01:35:48.122 --> 01:35:50.122
was in a mental health crisis 1

01:35:50.557 --> 01:35:52.625
we engaged in this hidden foster
compare.

01:35:52.859 --> 01:35:55.694
In 2018 when my sister-in-law's
husband of less than two months

01:35:56.830 --> 01:35:58.765
assaulted her and her oldest
son, child protective servers

01:35:59.200 --> 01:36:02.350
brought the boys to our home and
asked to us let them stay.

01:36:02.536 --> 01:36:04.536
At this point we had finally

01:36:04.705 --> 01:36:07.273
figured out that this meant a
safety plan.

01:36:08.775 --> 01:36:10.977
We said the boys were welcome to
stay with us any foster

01:36:10.977 --> 01:36:13.679
placement.
Cps refused.

01:36:14.214 --> 01:36:16.214
They left, and instead placed

01:36:17.184 --> 01:36:19.285
the boys in a safety plan with a
72-year-old relative who didn't

01:36:20.354 --> 01:36:23.220
know how to support special
needs children and wasn't aware

01:36:24.625 --> 01:36:26.859
that they were perpetuating a
revolving door situation.

01:36:28.695 --> 01:36:30.695
>> only a few months later my

01:36:30.897 --> 01:36:33.330
sister drove her son to our home
in a school night.

01:36:34.100 --> 01:36:36.100
She was in a manic state and

01:36:36.300 --> 01:36:38.505
under the influence of
methamphetamine.
And w. We brought the children

01:36:39.340 --> 01:36:41.340
to the agency the very next day

01:36:41.775 --> 01:36:43.910
to offer to ac as kinship gair
caw givers the agents threatened

01:36:44.144 --> 01:36:46.779
to revoke our for the first time
certification or even remove or

01:36:47.314 --> 01:36:49.915
own son from us if we couldn't
to continue in the safety plan
arrangement.

01:36:50.451 --> 01:36:52.451
>> over ten years, we learned

01:36:53.287 --> 01:36:55.287
that cps has an extremely low

01:36:55.589 --> 01:36:58.558
threshold for child safety.
If there's no imminent risk

01:36:58.859 --> 01:37:01.494
physical harm, they're safe
enough.

01:37:02.830 --> 01:37:05.565
Even if there's an established
history of parental trug abuse

01:37:05.565 --> 01:37:07.565
and mental illness, when

01:37:08.690 --> 01:37:09.836
children are put in and out of
different say the plans rather

01:37:10.838 --> 01:37:12.838
than admitted to foster orkin

01:37:12.907 --> 01:37:14.907
care, the agency has far less

01:37:15.109 --> 01:37:17.109
obligation to document the case

01:37:18.145 --> 01:37:20.145
and consider that history.

01:37:20.681 --> 01:37:23.349
In one of many custody hearings
we documented the safety plan

01:37:25.620 --> 01:37:28.540
that cps, my sister-in-law, and
ourselves agreed upon as terms

01:37:29.890 --> 01:37:32.759
of having the boys returned.
However, cps had no obligation

01:37:33.828 --> 01:37:35.829
to enforce it, and then
advocated in court that the

01:37:36.330 --> 01:37:38.865
children be removed from our
home and returned to their

01:37:39.533 --> 01:37:42.435
mother because they thought she
seemed better.

01:37:42.870 --> 01:37:45.605
Having been in a safety plan
meant that there was no

01:37:46.274 --> 01:37:48.541
follow-up for my sister-in-law's
mental health condition.

01:37:49.760 --> 01:37:51.760
18 months from that hearing, she

01:37:51.479 --> 01:37:54.347
was admitted for psychiatric
evaluation again and we started

01:37:54.882 --> 01:37:56.882
a brand new case.

01:37:56.984 --> 01:37:59.485
>> each time the children were
returned to us a new caseworker

01:37:59.921 --> 01:38:01.855
with no understanding or
knowledge of the previous safety

01:38:02.423 --> 01:38:04.424
plans would insist that my
sister was doing better this

01:38:04.625 --> 01:38:07.494
time and the children would stay
with us for a little while until

01:38:07.962 --> 01:38:10.430
their mother was well again.
We've learned that when a family

01:38:11.532 --> 01:38:14.330
is in crisis like ours was, over
and over, cps first looks to

01:38:14.468 --> 01:38:16.468
place the children in a safety

01:38:16.804 --> 01:38:19.439
plan with relatives, but with
that they don't tell you is once

01:38:19.874 --> 01:38:22.800
they find a gave, they don't
provide any support for them.

01:38:23.711 --> 01:38:25.445
We were treated as unpaid
full-time foster parents

01:38:26.130 --> 01:38:28.214
expected to transport kids to
school, handle their daily

01:38:28.983 --> 01:38:31.951
routines and activities, and
follow reunification plan with

01:38:32.152 --> 01:38:33.519
their mother who we need to
monitor as well.

01:38:34.556 --> 01:38:36.857
>> in a safety plan, the hidden
foster parent had no rights to

01:38:38.426 --> 01:38:40.360
act on behalf of the children in
care.

01:38:40.628 --> 01:38:42.628
In 2017, my sister-in-law was

01:38:42.730 --> 01:38:44.640
again admitted to a psychiatric
hospital.

01:38:45.566 --> 01:38:48.436
We packed up the kids again.
the medication for her youngest

01:38:48.436 --> 01:38:50.436
son was missing.

01:38:50.671 --> 01:38:53.540
He had not been attending public
school for months because his

01:38:55.760 --> 01:38:56.443
behaviors had become so
uncontrollable.

01:38:58.112 --> 01:39:00.112
Cps tolds they had no record of

01:39:00.448 --> 01:39:02.916
any of the children's medical
history and no knowledge the you

01:39:03.351 --> 01:39:04.818
can whyest had been removed from
school.

01:39:05.586 --> 01:39:07.854
They told to us file for custody
and is it was our responsibility

01:39:08.489 --> 01:39:11.325
to reach out to doctors and the
school but provided us no

01:39:12.600 --> 01:39:14.595
documentation to support our
need for this information and no

01:39:15.263 --> 01:39:16.897
legal support to proceed with a
custody suit.

01:39:18.990 --> 01:39:20.534
We were on our own.
>> as we had several times in

01:39:21.269 --> 01:39:23.903
the past, kate and I undertook
every expense associated with

01:39:24.371 --> 01:39:25.638
raising three additional
children.

01:39:27.800 --> 01:39:29.310
We took leaves of absence from
work and sacrifice dollars our

01:39:30.378 --> 01:39:32.713
own family goals to make sure
our nephews were cared for.

01:39:33.748 --> 01:39:36.830
>> the reason we're oversharing
with you today is because for a

01:39:36.417 --> 01:39:38.351
long time we didn't talk about
this to anybody.

01:39:39.120 --> 01:39:41.120
We made excuses a our jobs.

01:39:41.222 --> 01:39:43.490
We max out our cards.
We cried when we put the kids to

01:39:43.791 --> 01:39:46.270
bed trying to figure out how in
the world we were going to make

01:39:46.270 --> 01:39:48.620
all this work.
Our family would double

01:39:48.363 --> 01:39:50.898
overnight and we would have to
maintain the normal our son was

01:39:52.834 --> 01:39:54.901
used to, plus navigate school
enrollment, neglected doctors

01:39:55.269 --> 01:39:57.269
and dentists visits with mental

01:39:59.473 --> 01:40:02.420
health visits 1 translate rasped
disability services and be we
didn't even have a car big

01:40:02.210 --> 01:40:04.612
enough for six peel.
>> we hope that if we start

01:40:05.213 --> 01:40:07.213
sharing now, other families

01:40:07.649 --> 01:40:10.551
might get the help theyy need
tornado is on arrive at the best

01:40:10.919 --> 01:40:12.686
possible outcomes for all the
churn they love.

01:40:13.521 --> 01:40:16.289
Any time anyone is involved in a
safety plan they should be

01:40:16.358 --> 01:40:19.125
notified of their rights,
responsibilities and when the
safety plan will end.

01:40:19.227 --> 01:40:21.227
Caregivers should be provided

01:40:21.229 --> 01:40:23.664
immediate financial and legal
assistance and in addition the

01:40:24.666 --> 01:40:27.601
process should be streamlined
and as easy as possible.

01:40:28.670 --> 01:40:30.637
Long-term caregivers need to
give -- long-term caregivers

01:40:31.272 --> 01:40:34.174
need to be part of the permanent
success of the children.
No child should have to be like

01:40:35.176 --> 01:40:37.176
our nephews who have moved in

01:40:37.679 --> 01:40:40.548
and out of of the bedrooms in
our home five times in the last
ten years.

01:40:41.183 --> 01:40:43.951
Perhaps more importantly while.
Return to parent should remain a

01:40:45.253 --> 01:40:47.888
design outcome the best
long-term outcome for a child

01:40:51.259 --> 01:40:53.794
might not always be the
biological parent spacial if a
kinship caregiver is available.

01:40:56.565 --> 01:40:58.899
>> if there were reality we
would modified to have our

01:40:59.101 --> 01:41:02.690
nephews alberta lives endangered
by their matter who get enough

01:41:02.370 --> 01:41:04.380
evidence to establish permanency
in our home.

01:41:05.473 --> 01:41:08.141
MARCH of 2020 the county finally
found my sister guilty of

01:41:08.910 --> 01:41:10.177
neglect stemming from the 2019
incidents.

01:41:11.179 --> 01:41:13.179
While this was going on the

01:41:13.182 --> 01:41:15.483
caseworkers of cps had been
aggressively moving swords

01:41:16.351 --> 01:41:18.552
parental unification including
releasing the children from our

01:41:19.221 --> 01:41:21.655
home before the verdict was even
heard.
Million dollar following the

01:41:23.124 --> 01:41:25.793
neglect trial, the judge grant
us primary MS. Custody our two

01:41:25.994 --> 01:41:28.161
nephews with autism.
Their brother has decided to be

01:41:28.729 --> 01:41:30.498
returned to their mother and is
currently living with her.

01:41:32.000 --> 01:41:34.000
>> we think he's in a safety

01:41:34.102 --> 01:41:36.102
plan, but there's no way to

01:41:36.338 --> 01:41:38.607
know, so we hope he's safe
enough.
>> thank you for hearing us

01:41:38.607 --> 01:41:41.275
today.
>> first of all, thank you for
sharing.

01:41:41.709 --> 01:41:44.678
There's no such thing as
oversharing.
Everything that you mentioned

01:41:46.180 --> 01:41:48.816
was helpful because your
experience is duplicated all

01:41:49.918 --> 01:41:52.787
over the state, so thank you.
There is -- brian, I'm going to

01:41:53.540 --> 01:41:55.623
throw it to you in a second to
talk about what we should be

01:41:55.824 --> 01:41:58.359
doing with safety plans, but
just so everybody understands

01:41:58.994 --> 01:42:01.161
we've already put in legislation
with deal with safety plans.

01:42:01.763 --> 01:42:04.300
Ryan knows the better than I do,
so, sir, if you could let us

01:42:04.300 --> 01:42:06.934
know.
>> absolutely.
I mean, the first bowl of that

01:42:07.769 --> 01:42:10.305
bill is to define what a -- goal
of that bill is to define what a

01:42:10.305 --> 01:42:12.841
safety plan is.
So right now there is no shared

01:42:12.841 --> 01:42:15.342
definition across counties, so
many counties are able to say,

01:42:16.110 --> 01:42:18.112
oh, well, that action, that's
not a safety plan.

01:42:19.714 --> 01:42:21.815
We don't engage in that action.
But it's still the same.

01:42:23.385 --> 01:42:25.421
So defining it was the first
goal.
Data collection is the next

01:42:25.421 --> 01:42:28.122
goal.
So there's no requirement

01:42:28.924 --> 01:42:31.659
because this is not an
officially judicial removal.

01:42:32.360 --> 01:42:34.662
There's no requirement to track
the movement of this child from

01:42:36.310 --> 01:42:37.965
home to home, and so when you
ask for data on how many

01:42:39.330 --> 01:42:41.603
children are in safety plans, we
don't know because they're no
tracking it.

01:42:42.104 --> 01:42:45.600
So that's the second piece of
it.
And the third piece of it is

01:42:45.307 --> 01:42:47.740
really regulating it.
Regulating the practice and

01:42:47.809 --> 01:42:50.177
making sure that as dave
mentioned there are timelines

01:42:50.746 --> 01:42:52.746
associated with it, that there

01:42:53.415 --> 01:42:55.416
are written expectations about
everybody involve, and the goal

01:42:56.551 --> 01:42:58.551
of a safety plan should be to

01:42:58.754 --> 01:43:00.789
keep a child from having to
enter further into the foster

01:43:00.789 --> 01:43:03.491
care system.
That's an okay thing.

01:43:04.260 --> 01:43:06.994
But everybody needs to know what
the plan is, and everybody needs

01:43:08.960 --> 01:43:10.698
to know whether the
reunification goals are being

01:43:11.166 --> 01:43:13.467
met, whether the plan needs to
be extended, and having time

01:43:15.304 --> 01:43:16.971
limits on those plans before
child protective services needs

01:43:18.173 --> 01:43:20.375
to take answering to say week
hey, you know what?

01:43:21.744 --> 01:43:23.878
This safety plan was left its
full length of time and

01:43:24.212 --> 01:43:27.810
permanency has not as been
reached.
We haven't been able to reunify

01:43:27.516 --> 01:43:30.351
this child so we're going to do
an officially removal and offer

01:43:31.219 --> 01:43:33.522
the supports of foster care sem
or offer the supports custody,

01:43:33.522 --> 01:43:35.522
so those are the things that

01:43:36.926 --> 01:43:38.926
that bill is really intended to

01:43:39.661 --> 01:43:41.661
do which again reins in the

01:43:41.964 --> 01:43:44.365
practice that is just currently
running wild from county to
county.

01:43:45.934 --> 01:43:48.402
>> damn, that's a good bill.
[Laughter]
>> so we're going to be pushing

01:43:48.670 --> 01:43:51.172
for that this session and I
antoinette to know, ryan, I want

01:43:51.407 --> 01:43:53.407
to be on the record for this, I

01:43:54.243 --> 01:43:56.477
am going to be taking credit as
the mastered mastermind for that

01:43:56.879 --> 01:43:59.781
bill publically but we all know
who is helping us get there and

01:44:01.149 --> 01:44:03.818
with this policy and kincare.
Thank you, sir, for all of your

01:44:04.152 --> 01:44:06.152
work and we've talked a number

01:44:07.323 --> 01:44:09.425
of times now so this has been
really helpful for me to under

01:44:09.425 --> 01:44:11.425
kinship.

01:44:12.494 --> 01:44:14.280
>> can I ask you a question,
please?

01:44:14.563 --> 01:44:16.998
My question to a three of you -- 
I'm not sure who would be best

01:44:17.633 --> 01:44:19.701
to answer it so let me just
throw it out there and maybe

01:44:19.701 --> 01:44:21.701
somebody else down the line

01:44:23.538 --> 01:44:25.574
would have input also.
You obviously you spoke about a

01:44:26.709 --> 01:44:29.277
lot of things, but when we talk
about a safety plan, it being

01:44:30.579 --> 01:44:32.579
basically a shadow foster

01:44:35.217 --> 01:44:38.119
program, my question is when a
couple of such as the two of

01:44:39.121 --> 01:44:41.121
you, and I know there's many

01:44:41.991 --> 01:44:43.991
others, but such as you have the

01:44:45.695 --> 01:44:47.695
children in your home under this

01:44:48.731 --> 01:44:50.731
type of a setup, what legal

01:44:51.500 --> 01:44:53.500
authority do you possess in

01:44:54.300 --> 01:44:56.300
order to put kids in or out of

01:44:56.104 --> 01:44:58.104
school, in order to take

01:44:58.407 --> 01:45:00.642
children to doctors'
appointments, in order to have

01:45:01.377 --> 01:45:03.377
access to -- the information

01:45:04.647 --> 01:45:06.647
that if somebody were a legal

01:45:07.216 --> 01:45:09.651
guardian, this they would that
they would have a right to as

01:45:10.850 --> 01:45:12.820
basically a parent would in
order to have this information,

01:45:14.890 --> 01:45:16.890
this authority to make basic

01:45:19.295 --> 01:45:21.397
decisions in children's lives?
Who DR. Ever -- or is it

01:45:21.397 --> 01:45:24.366
just -- 
>> it is absolutely a void.

01:45:25.368 --> 01:45:26.601
It's a negative space in this
arena.

01:45:28.737 --> 01:45:30.737
As I pointed out in 2017 in our

01:45:31.640 --> 01:45:33.640
personal case, our nephew takes

01:45:34.577 --> 01:45:37.412
some serious medication to keep
his multiple disabilities in
check.

01:45:37.814 --> 01:45:40.615
We knew about them because we've
cared for him multiple times,

01:45:41.651 --> 01:45:43.651
and when he came -- when my

01:45:43.819 --> 01:45:45.620
sister-in-law was put into a
psychiatric facility where she

01:45:46.422 --> 01:45:48.756
had no contact with the outside
world, we had the children, and

01:45:49.925 --> 01:45:52.895
we said, oh, my gosh, he needs
teak his medication.
Where is it?
>> right.

01:45:54.330 --> 01:45:56.331
>> we had no way to get into
his -- back into the house.

01:45:57.900 --> 01:45:59.900
We had no way -- we asked cps,

01:46:01.437 --> 01:46:03.772
please help us, and our response
was, do it yourselves.

01:46:03.772 --> 01:46:05.940
Luckily, because we have had
custody, we had the children.

01:46:07.643 --> 01:46:09.610
, we knew who his doctor was, we
called and I basically cried on

01:46:11.447 --> 01:46:13.447
the phone to try to get an

01:46:14.751 --> 01:46:16.551
update on his prescription.
But technically we had no -- 

01:46:17.587 --> 01:46:19.187
>> you had no -- 
>> none.

01:46:19.989 --> 01:46:21.990
>> on paper you have no legal
authority -- 
>> none.

01:46:22.925 --> 01:46:24.925
>> -- that would normally allow

01:46:25.227 --> 01:46:27.227
anyone to be able to exercise

01:46:28.765 --> 01:46:31.301
these p kind of rights and
abilities, even to enroll a
child in school.

01:46:31.301 --> 01:46:33.301
>> the same.

01:46:33.336 --> 01:46:36.370
We had the same problem.
It was a nightmare to try to

01:46:37.540 --> 01:46:40.175
navigate the paperwork and, you
know, essentially we had to beg,

01:46:40.843 --> 01:46:43.244
borrow and steal to get them the
services that they needed while

01:46:43.279 --> 01:46:45.681
these safety plans were in
place.
>> perhaps ian worse, all of the

01:46:46.316 --> 01:46:48.418
people that helped us get it
done could probably get in

01:46:48.418 --> 01:46:50.886
trouble.
I mean, those people stuck their

01:46:53.356 --> 01:46:56.191
neck out to help us get a kid in
school.
>> medical providers for letting

01:46:57.593 --> 01:46:59.494
someone without an order of
custody make medical decisions

01:47:00.663 --> 01:47:02.960
on behalf of the child, that is
absolutely correct.

01:47:04.267 --> 01:47:07.350
>> because there is a void, and
technically I'm sure many people

01:47:07.137 --> 01:47:09.137
wouldn't have legal authority to

01:47:09.806 --> 01:47:11.600
be able to do this.
Okay.

01:47:12.108 --> 01:47:14.976
No, I was wondering because I
know you indicated some of the

01:47:17.246 --> 01:47:19.347
other problems as far as in this
existence, the fact that you

01:47:21.751 --> 01:47:23.751
were cut off from other county

01:47:24.554 --> 01:47:27.890
resources, but on top of that,
you have children, especially

01:47:28.925 --> 01:47:30.925
children with special needs in

01:47:31.828 --> 01:47:34.430
your care that you truly can't
operate in the capacity of a

01:47:34.430 --> 01:47:37.400
parent towards.
>> no.
>> okay.
>> all right, thank you.

01:47:38.100 --> 01:47:40.970
>> thank you.
One last question that's just

01:47:41.304 --> 01:47:44.139
awful but here it goes.
Are you ready?

01:47:45.909 --> 01:47:48.343
Do you think new york state,
when they intervened in your

01:47:53.582 --> 01:47:55.751
family, set you up to succeed?
>> no.

01:47:56.286 --> 01:47:59.540
>> you've been pretty clear
before.
I want it on the record.

01:47:59.422 --> 01:48:01.790
>> I do not.
Quite unfortunately.

01:48:02.292 --> 01:48:04.494
And I don't think from the
individual desire of any of the

01:48:04.494 --> 01:48:07.129
people wye worked with.
A lot of the people that our

01:48:07.230 --> 01:48:09.865
social workers are in these
roles because they want to do

01:48:10.399 --> 01:48:13.350
good, but unfortunately they're
all on a very, very strict set

01:48:14.710 --> 01:48:16.710
of rules and a very limiting
work environment.

01:48:16.539 --> 01:48:18.974
They all have too many cases,
too many children that they're

01:48:19.175 --> 01:48:22.144
working with, and unfortunately
they don't have the tools to

01:48:22.779 --> 01:48:24.779
help you, and unfortunately also

01:48:24.781 --> 01:48:27.216
they're almost putting you on a
path that is directly opposite

01:48:27.216 --> 01:48:30.520
their success.
>> conversely, though, while

01:48:34.891 --> 01:48:36.891
they MAY not have put you on a

01:48:36.926 --> 01:48:39.795
path, if you look at this
realistically -- you both seem
to be wonderful people and

01:48:41.231 --> 01:48:43.632
obviously you stepped in in an
emergency -- 
>> she is.

01:48:45.735 --> 01:48:48.700
>> bleu, assemblyman hevesi.
>> to look at it from a

01:48:48.405 --> 01:48:50.773
different perspective, let me
ask this question.

01:48:50.907 --> 01:48:52.842
Did the county operate flay way
that helped the children?

01:48:52.976 --> 01:48:54.976
>> no, they did not.

01:48:55.178 --> 01:48:56.378
>> and can you please explain
why.

01:48:57.881 --> 01:49:00.283
Because obviously you seem like,
likeyy I said, great people up.

01:49:00.283 --> 01:49:02.283
Took them in.

01:49:03.520 --> 01:49:05.121
You gave them a safe
environment, knocked yourself

01:49:05.255 --> 01:49:07.255
out to do what you had to do.

01:49:07.991 --> 01:49:10.426
How did the county let you
down -- let them down.
Not you.

01:49:10.861 --> 01:49:13.762
How did they let them down?
>> well, one of the major things

01:49:14.931 --> 01:49:16.931
in the last instance was the

01:49:17.567 --> 01:49:19.100
county basically ignored the
children.

01:49:19.969 --> 01:49:22.204
At the end this last instance
they were older, you know, they

01:49:22.372 --> 01:49:24.372
could have a little bit more of

01:49:24.541 --> 01:49:26.743
a voice in what they wanted and
what they wanted to see the

01:49:26.743 --> 01:49:28.944
outcomes be.
Obviously when they were eight

01:49:30.881 --> 01:49:33.649
and six and two when this first
started, we all had to work

01:49:33.850 --> 01:49:36.652
together in their best
interests, but in the last case

01:49:37.420 --> 01:49:39.756
the boys were older and the
holds did not want to be

01:49:40.324 --> 01:49:42.291
returned to parent.
Oldest did not want.

01:49:42.893 --> 01:49:44.827
The he recognized the situation
and the involving door had been

01:49:45.362 --> 01:49:47.362
and he wanted to stay, and that

01:49:48.310 --> 01:49:49.265
was blatantly ignored by the
county.

01:49:50.867 --> 01:49:53.836
His desires to remain were
completely ignored.

01:49:54.137 --> 01:49:56.137
And some of the other things

01:49:56.573 --> 01:49:58.374
that they have ignored as well
was their own mental health

01:50:01.178 --> 01:50:03.178
because the boys were older in

01:50:03.347 --> 01:50:05.448
the the last cast we recognized
some of the red flags with our

01:50:06.316 --> 01:50:08.717
middle nephew and we knew that
he needed some help, and the

01:50:09.586 --> 01:50:12.488
county did not get him mental
health services, they did not

01:50:14.592 --> 01:50:16.659
provide him with the tools to be
successful.

01:50:18.620 --> 01:50:20.396
>> could I jump back in on that
point?
>> absolutely.

01:50:20.964 --> 01:50:22.765
>> sorry, wear tag teeming.
>> this is good.

01:50:23.967 --> 01:50:25.967
Am I the good cop?

01:50:29.239 --> 01:50:31.239
[Laughter]

01:50:32.209 --> 01:50:34.244
So it's clear that new york
state has not supported you the

01:50:35.145 --> 01:50:37.914
way we believe they should, and
I know tans to the next question

01:50:38.115 --> 01:50:40.115
but there certainly wasn't

01:50:40.117 --> 01:50:42.117
enough to help tack care of

01:50:44.854 --> 01:50:46.854
these take care of these kids.

01:50:47.157 --> 01:50:48.824
Please explain why it's
exponentially heard if you have

01:50:51.529 --> 01:50:53.529
a child that's got intellectual
or disability.

01:50:53.597 --> 01:50:55.699
That's something, ryan I don't
know if that's in our

01:50:55.699 --> 01:50:58.670
legislation either.
>> it's not at the moment.

01:50:59.136 --> 01:51:01.203
>> we need to add that in.
Please tell me about that.

01:51:02.720 --> 01:51:04.707
>> I think from our experience
U.S., bun of the most difficult

01:51:05.842 --> 01:51:08.645
things to navigate was as david
mentioned, return to parent is

01:51:08.879 --> 01:51:11.281
always -- we would love to see
that happen, however, parents

01:51:11.715 --> 01:51:14.584
also need to be given the tools
and resources so that they could

01:51:15.419 --> 01:51:18.870
be successful.
Our nephew, two of them are on

01:51:19.356 --> 01:51:22.224
the autism spectrum and
literally on different ends of
the spectrum.

01:51:23.460 --> 01:51:25.630
Our youngest has severe
disabilities that need to be

01:51:25.630 --> 01:51:28.498
addressed.
And while the system was set up

01:51:28.599 --> 01:51:30.599
to give my sister-in-law

01:51:30.701 --> 01:51:32.701
resources about her drug

01:51:33.237 --> 01:51:36.720
addiction, it didn't adequately
address her mental health
problems and it also didn't

01:51:37.274 --> 01:51:40.420
address how to parent a child
with disabilities.

01:51:41.145 --> 01:51:43.546
In reality, she triggers them
and they trigger her.

01:51:44.215 --> 01:51:46.215
And no one addressed that, and

01:51:47.151 --> 01:51:49.686
we still see the residual
impacts of that because she does

01:51:49.987 --> 01:51:51.987
have visitation with the boys

01:51:52.856 --> 01:51:55.258
and it does impact his
behavior.
It's difficult to navigate.

01:51:56.893 --> 01:51:58.893
>> triggering because the

01:51:59.630 --> 01:52:01.630
interaction with the family -- 

01:52:04.335 --> 01:52:06.335
>> she is likely to relapse over

01:52:06.770 --> 01:52:08.771
time when she would interact
with them.

01:52:09.940 --> 01:52:11.940
>> drug.

01:52:14.678 --> 01:52:16.712
She a bipolar a as well as drug
addiction.

01:52:18.149 --> 01:52:20.283
Our youngest I think recognizes
that sometimes mom doesn't act

01:52:21.752 --> 01:52:24.554
the same, and when he sees her
he kind of expects some of those

01:52:25.656 --> 01:52:28.491
negative behaviors and then look
at the.
So it's difficult because the
county didn't provide the

01:52:29.960 --> 01:52:31.960
resources for her to learn his

01:52:32.129 --> 01:52:34.129
behavior plan, how to interact

01:52:34.966 --> 01:52:36.733
with him and understand his
needs.

01:52:37.235 --> 01:52:39.235
As parents, we all sometimes

01:52:39.704 --> 01:52:42.138
have to adapt, and with churn
with special eads needs it's

01:52:43.440 --> 01:52:45.975
even more important to learn to
exist in their world and not

01:52:46.443 --> 01:52:48.845
necessarily have them fit into
yours.
>> so something that we're
looking at.

01:52:49.313 --> 01:52:50.546
First of all, thank you for
sharing.

01:52:51.950 --> 01:52:54.251
That really, really is helpful.
Something we're looking at in

01:52:55.119 --> 01:52:57.220
addition to doing regular
assistance -- it's not

01:52:57.488 --> 01:52:59.422
regular -- but assistance for
kinship families is a

01:53:00.157 --> 01:53:02.959
differential rate for families
that have more of a burden, that

01:53:03.794 --> 01:53:06.129
have more things to cover,
medical and other needs, so

01:53:06.430 --> 01:53:08.430
that's on our radar, but the

01:53:09.200 --> 01:53:11.735
fact that you came here and
expressed it was -- it means a

01:53:13.337 --> 01:53:15.406
lot to me and I know was very
difficult, but thank you, my

01:53:15.406 --> 01:53:18.308
friend, for doing that.
>> can I make one more comment?

01:53:18.442 --> 01:53:20.442
>> no, ryan.

01:53:20.878 --> 01:53:22.878
>> I do want to mention with

01:53:23.470 --> 01:53:25.480
assemblyman byrne, you are
asking about the children.

01:53:25.215 --> 01:53:28.118
I think that kate and dave
opened their home multiple

01:53:29.520 --> 01:53:31.722
cases, on behalf of those
children, whereas if those

01:53:32.690 --> 01:53:34.690
children had exhibited the kind

01:53:34.792 --> 01:53:36.860
of difficult behaviors in foster
care with someone who didn't

01:53:38.829 --> 01:53:41.464
know them, they would have
bounced from home to home to

01:53:41.732 --> 01:53:43.732
home to home forever, and so

01:53:44.350 --> 01:53:45.469
this is the benefit of kinship
families.

01:53:47.405 --> 01:53:49.373
And so to some extent while the
county didn't do right by those

01:53:50.700 --> 01:53:52.342
children in making sure that
they had access to medical

01:53:53.210 --> 01:53:55.945
services and things like that,
they did could right by those

01:53:56.814 --> 01:53:59.149
children in making sure those
children ended up with family

01:53:59.650 --> 01:54:02.586
who are committed to them and
who continue to open their
doors.

01:54:03.788 --> 01:54:05.989
>> can I mack a jenner, a
point?
Of course I can.

01:54:06.557 --> 01:54:08.358
But here's the generic point.
>> you're the chair.

01:54:08.626 --> 01:54:10.626
>> thank you.

01:54:10.795 --> 01:54:12.996
Year hearing over and over that
acs didn't provide the resources

01:54:13.464 --> 01:54:15.665
or the county didn't provide the
resources, and while that's

01:54:15.966 --> 01:54:18.501
technically accurate, the
failure is oh state government.

01:54:18.970 --> 01:54:20.970
It's on us in the legislature.

01:54:21.706 --> 01:54:24.608
It's on me and it's on the past
administration.
We have underfunded these

01:54:25.310 --> 01:54:27.678
things, intentionally cutting
money and zero and flat funded

01:54:28.346 --> 01:54:30.346
them for over a decade.

01:54:30.414 --> 01:54:32.480
Here are the consequences.
It's custom government when

01:54:33.684 --> 01:54:36.221
you're not in the business of
preventing problems.
Dumb government.

01:54:36.221 --> 01:54:38.221
We're dealing with symptoms.

01:54:38.490 --> 01:54:40.557
So we're going to build more
homeless shelters instead of

01:54:42.930 --> 01:54:44.695
helping the kids before they get
traumatized and wind unon the
path.

01:54:45.596 --> 01:54:48.465
We are now -- the reason why I
mention this, we are in I

01:54:48.666 --> 01:54:50.667
believe, and I'd love to work
with you and all the people in

01:54:52.690 --> 01:54:54.872
this room on this, a time when
kinship starts to be the primary

01:54:55.707 --> 01:54:57.707
mechanism by which we keep kids

01:54:58.243 --> 01:55:00.711
out of the foster care system,
which saves taxpayers money and

01:55:01.479 --> 01:55:03.748
helps kids, and I look forward
to working with you on that, on

01:55:03.748 --> 01:55:06.384
the safety plan bill and
everything else p p. You guys

01:55:06.384 --> 01:55:08.418
are great.
Thank you for sharing.

01:55:08.786 --> 01:55:10.786
>> thank you.

01:55:11.690 --> 01:55:13.690
>> our next panel, if we're

01:55:16.528 --> 01:55:18.528
ready, sha cara harrison and

01:55:34.979 --> 01:55:36.513
serrice hoylman.
Hi.
Good afternoon.

01:55:37.448 --> 01:55:40.284
>> hi.
>> I really appreciate you

01:55:40.985 --> 01:55:42.386
taking the time to come and
testify.

01:55:44.155 --> 01:55:46.155
If floor is yours.

01:55:53.498 --> 01:55:55.498
Please

01:55:55.834 --> 01:55:57.834
got to read from a phone?

01:55:58.403 --> 01:55:59.836
I do that all the time too.
No worries.

01:56:03.740 --> 01:56:05.776
>> hi, my name is shakara
harrison.
I am a survivor of what some

01:56:07.450 --> 01:56:09.446
refer toss a the child welfare
system.
I was later as a parent

01:56:10.482 --> 01:56:12.482
separated from my own children.

01:56:12.584 --> 01:56:14.718
After surviving the family
regulation systems' decades of

01:56:15.860 --> 01:56:16.520
abuse I became an advocate for
change.

01:56:17.121 --> 01:56:19.891
I remember being in the new york
city foster system, never being

01:56:19.891 --> 01:56:21.891
asked if I felt safe.

01:56:21.893 --> 01:56:24.295
The caseworkers were heartless
and never cared about -- never

01:56:25.397 --> 01:56:27.598
appeared to care about my I was
safety from one foster home to

01:56:28.933 --> 01:56:30.701
the next, always being placed to
reside with strangers.

01:56:31.536 --> 01:56:33.737
Most of my foster placements
were child abusers and had

01:56:34.405 --> 01:56:36.506
family members who were living
and/or visiting their home.

01:56:38.242 --> 01:56:39.911
They were pedophiles, not one
caseworker believed me when I

01:56:40.546 --> 01:56:43.314
told them.
Acs provides kidnapping, child

01:56:44.383 --> 01:56:46.383
abuse, sexual abuse, verbal

01:56:47.352 --> 01:56:49.352
abuse, ptsd, suicidal thoughts

01:56:49.354 --> 01:56:51.655
be, homelessness, mass juvenile
incarceration and murders while

01:56:52.423 --> 01:56:55.225
they claim the new york city
administration for children's
services is a government agency

01:56:55.393 --> 01:56:57.795
that protects and promotes
safety and well-being of new

01:56:57.963 --> 01:56:59.963
york city's children and

01:57:00.432 --> 01:57:02.433
families by providing child
welfare, juvenile justice and

01:57:03.100 --> 01:57:05.370
early care and education
servers, for me and countless

01:57:05.370 --> 01:57:07.638
others it was a prison for many
years of a child.

01:57:08.673 --> 01:57:10.673
Never having a choice to be safe

01:57:10.675 --> 01:57:13.479
or to be with loving families
who truly had my well-being as a

01:57:13.479 --> 01:57:15.479
child at heart.

01:57:16.682 --> 01:57:19.350
Instead I suffered in silence
internalize 10 verbal with
mental and physical abuse.

01:57:20.385 --> 01:57:22.653
I have ptsd as an adult today
because of what was allowed to

01:57:22.954 --> 01:57:24.954
happen to me while in the

01:57:25.824 --> 01:57:28.225
custody of new york state acs.
As a parent advocate today, I

01:57:31.497 --> 01:57:34.265
join with joyce Mcmilan, jmac
for families in calling for the

01:57:35.467 --> 01:57:37.467
abolishment of new york city's

01:57:37.536 --> 01:57:39.337
for children services and
apparent-led community services

01:57:41.730 --> 01:57:43.541
in conjunction with foster
expanses any other agency,

01:57:43.575 --> 01:57:45.776
government agency that played a
part in the harms that are

01:57:46.111 --> 01:57:48.178
caused to children who are
ripped from their parents.

01:57:50.115 --> 01:57:52.115
I worked for a foster agency for

01:57:52.718 --> 01:57:55.620
six months through some
partnership with another agency
I used to work for.

01:57:56.221 --> 01:57:58.522
The the partnership is window
dressing and it's not designed

01:57:58.790 --> 01:58:00.790
for advocates to have the power

01:58:01.393 --> 01:58:03.761
to actually help anyone.
The agency tried to use me to do

01:58:03.962 --> 01:58:06.396
their dirty work.
They tried the same tactics on

01:58:07.766 --> 01:58:10.135
me as an employee as once -- as
the one they used when I was

01:58:10.135 --> 01:58:12.603
being impacted.
The best way to keep children

01:58:13.505 --> 01:58:16.108
safe is to make sure parents
know their rights.

01:58:16.108 --> 01:58:18.776
Protect children.
Tell acs that you cannot rubber

01:58:19.277 --> 01:58:21.746
stamp taking children from
parents whose rights were
violated because they did not

01:58:21.746 --> 01:58:24.249
know them.
Placing a child in the foster

01:58:25.317 --> 01:58:27.485
system because acs took
advantage of the parent, lied

01:58:29.210 --> 01:58:31.723
and exaggerated is wrong.
Having rights is not enough.
We must know our rights.

01:58:31.723 --> 01:58:33.723
Thank you.

01:58:35.660 --> 01:58:38.129
>> before we move on,
MS. Harrison, first thank you
for the testimony.

01:58:38.196 --> 01:58:40.497
Can I ask you a question?
Because this is the 2nd tylenol

01:58:42.301 --> 01:58:44.936
I have heard from parents about
ptsd with acs involvement.

01:58:45.404 --> 01:58:47.972
I've been focused solely on the
trauma to the kids.

01:58:48.574 --> 01:58:50.475
Can you talk about the trauma to
the family and the parent.

01:58:51.677 --> 01:58:53.677
>> I was a foster child for most

01:58:54.846 --> 01:58:56.846
of my life, so that's eight to

01:58:57.349 --> 01:59:00.218
veen inside of acs's system
being told that no one cares and

01:59:00.986 --> 01:59:02.986
that my parents never coming

01:59:06.291 --> 01:59:08.993
back to me, so, yes, that is
ptsd.
Keeping me away from my parents

01:59:09.294 --> 01:59:11.396
and lying and saying my parents
never showed up for visits when

01:59:11.396 --> 01:59:13.396
they were there.

01:59:14.199 --> 01:59:16.735
Yes, it was a long history
trauma continuously done by

01:59:16.936 --> 01:59:19.471
caseworkers, lawyers, whoever
would tell me lies about my

01:59:19.972 --> 01:59:22.774
family and it was never true
because I actually met my

01:59:22.908 --> 01:59:25.209
parents when I got older.
Moral of the story, as an adult

01:59:25.844 --> 01:59:27.945
I had to worry about it all my
life basically I had to worry

01:59:28.460 --> 01:59:29.347
because I'm a ward of the
state.

01:59:30.315 --> 01:59:33.217
They took me from my parents for
absolutely no reason
whatsoever.

01:59:34.860 --> 01:59:36.860
So with that being said, from

01:59:37.156 --> 01:59:38.757
being a ward of the state I was
always surgeon surveillances.

01:59:39.492 --> 01:59:41.492
they even offered on to take my

01:59:41.894 --> 01:59:44.280
first child when she was born
which they currently have and

01:59:44.763 --> 01:59:46.664
they put her up for adoption.
I'm 34 years old.

01:59:47.650 --> 01:59:49.835
They never left my life.
Never, not once.

01:59:49.835 --> 01:59:51.680
I don't have no criminal
record.

01:59:51.938 --> 01:59:54.139
Prior to that I didn't commit
any violence prior to that.

01:59:55.410 --> 01:59:57.410
But I feel like by me being in

01:59:58.144 --> 01:59:59.444
the system, it causes me to have
ptsd.

02:00:00.679 --> 02:00:02.947
Prior to that I didn't have
ptsd.
I was with my parents.

02:00:03.148 --> 02:00:05.148
I was happy with my parents.

02:00:05.250 --> 02:00:07.752
They stripped me of my pointed I
don't even know where my

02:00:08.554 --> 02:00:10.689
brothers and sisters are at.
I have 12 brothers and sisters

02:00:10.790 --> 02:00:13.658
that I don't know where they're
at.
With that being said, this

02:00:14.160 --> 02:00:16.394
causes trauma to the whole
entire family to the point where

02:00:17.396 --> 02:00:19.396
I have to explain to my children

02:00:19.798 --> 02:00:21.899
what is acs and what do they do
and what happened.

02:00:24.169 --> 02:00:26.172
To me and every time a
I have to say what are you doing

02:00:26.172 --> 02:00:28.541
here?
Why are you here?
Again?

02:00:28.541 --> 02:00:31.343
Again?
Why?
It's traumatizing.

02:00:32.440 --> 02:00:34.379
It's like waning up to a
nightmare.
>> and the fear that it happens

02:00:34.413 --> 02:00:36.681
over and over again.
>> yes.
>> thank you for sharing that.

02:00:36.815 --> 02:00:39.840
It mugs have been very
difficult.
I appreciate it.

02:00:39.840 --> 02:00:41.840
MS. Hoylman, please.

02:00:41.387 --> 02:00:43.387
>> yes.

02:00:44.357 --> 02:00:46.357
Thanks for having me me.

02:00:51.970 --> 02:00:53.299
my name is serrice who hoylman.
Thank you so much for your

02:00:53.299 --> 02:00:55.299
testimony.

02:01:00.940 --> 02:01:03.575
It helps me a lot
I'm going do startle reading
what I have.

02:01:04.143 --> 02:01:06.143
I'm here to speak on behalf of

02:01:07.980 --> 02:01:09.980
my family and all the families

02:01:10.349 --> 02:01:12.349
of central america who have been

02:01:13.285 --> 02:01:15.285
wrongfully targeted with family

02:01:15.688 --> 02:01:17.688
separation, mandated reporting,

02:01:19.859 --> 02:01:22.940
and qualified immunity laws,
which has affected many of our

02:01:23.396 --> 02:01:25.630
families for many, many years in
our country.

02:01:29.435 --> 02:01:31.435
I'm here today to speak out

02:01:32.805 --> 02:01:35.240
against acs's atrocities and
demand that directors and

02:01:37.243 --> 02:01:39.243
supervisors of this agency be

02:01:39.279 --> 02:01:42.800
held accountable.
My involvement with this fight

02:01:43.916 --> 02:01:46.384
began with my ancestors who have
been targeted by the system of

02:01:49.655 --> 02:01:51.655
genocide and racism and

02:01:52.258 --> 02:01:54.126
continued holocaust of injustice
towards our families.

02:01:55.929 --> 02:01:57.929
As a punishment for simply being

02:01:59.699 --> 02:02:02.200
who we are, indigenous american
indians, whose identities have

02:02:03.936 --> 02:02:05.936
been stolen from us by a

02:02:06.439 --> 02:02:08.840
fraudulent -- my fraudulent
government officials who violate

02:02:11.611 --> 02:02:14.146
federal laws and use all kind of
nefarious acts against parents,

02:02:16.983 --> 02:02:18.983
such as incitement of genocide,

02:02:20.190 --> 02:02:22.190
racism, treason, and false

02:02:23.456 --> 02:02:26.257
imprisonment to silence us.
This corrupt system, so-called

02:02:27.994 --> 02:02:29.994
the administration for child -- 

02:02:30.196 --> 02:02:32.640
children's services, has
basically done away with the

02:02:33.366 --> 02:02:35.366
constitution to enforce their

02:02:38.972 --> 02:02:40.972
own laws and order, a, because I

02:02:41.400 --> 02:02:43.400
said to tactic that do more harm

02:02:44.910 --> 02:02:46.910
to our churn than repair.

02:02:46.980 --> 02:02:49.949
My fight against this corrupt
system of child removal and

02:02:51.151 --> 02:02:54.119
family separation began with
success academy charter school.

02:02:56.222 --> 02:02:59.910
The school my two underage
daughters attended, which I'm

02:03:01.293 --> 02:03:04.130
aware is a division of the
department of education.

02:03:05.398 --> 02:03:07.398
They are the ones who initiated

02:03:07.667 --> 02:03:09.667
this obstruction of my natural

02:03:10.503 --> 02:03:12.503
rights as a mother.

02:03:14.941 --> 02:03:17.750
One fateful day back in JANUARY
JANUARY 2017, after harassing me

02:03:17.443 --> 02:03:19.945
and my underage daughters are
for whatever nonsense they could

02:03:23.283 --> 02:03:25.283
make up, the success academy

02:03:25.285 --> 02:03:27.285
administration moved forward to

02:03:28.521 --> 02:03:30.521
falsely report me to the acs

02:03:33.626 --> 02:03:36.610
state central registry for
educational child neglect,

02:03:37.530 --> 02:03:39.530
simply because I would not

02:03:41.100 --> 02:03:43.836
adhere to their disrespect,
harassment and bullying, and

02:03:44.704 --> 02:03:47.373
because of it I decided to home
school.

02:03:48.108 --> 02:03:50.108
Let the record show that before

02:03:50.743 --> 02:03:52.743
I was reported to the state

02:03:53.460 --> 02:03:55.460
registry, I was already

02:03:55.782 --> 02:03:57.782
reporting harassment and

02:03:58.418 --> 02:04:01.188
bullying to the charter school's
founder.
I'm not sure if I can say names,

02:04:01.188 --> 02:04:03.923
but -- 
>> I would prefer that you
didn't but we get it.

02:04:06.159 --> 02:04:08.159
>> sure.

02:04:08.695 --> 02:04:10.695
Long before success academy's

02:04:10.964 --> 02:04:12.964
administration decided to report

02:04:14.668 --> 02:04:16.836
me to acs for child neglect.
>> one quick question.

02:04:18.710 --> 02:04:20.407
How old are your children?
>> at this time they're ten and

02:04:20.407 --> 02:04:22.975
11.
>> thank you.
>> at the time when this

02:04:23.810 --> 02:04:25.100
happened they were six and
seven.

02:04:29.582 --> 02:04:31.316
So this is an ongoing family
court matter that I have been

02:04:33.754 --> 02:04:35.754
fighting since 2017, and I have

02:04:35.889 --> 02:04:37.889
not seen my children.

02:04:38.758 --> 02:04:41.930
I have not physically seen my
children since 2018.

02:04:41.962 --> 02:04:43.962
>> thank you, ma'am.

02:04:48.102 --> 02:04:50.937
>> they're being hidden by acs.
so I'll just pick up where I

02:04:51.271 --> 02:04:53.271
left off.

02:04:53.440 --> 02:04:56.750
I was already reporting
harassment and bullying to the

02:04:58.780 --> 02:05:00.512
charter school's founder.
This should have been deemed as

02:05:02.916 --> 02:05:04.916
a retaliation tactic against me,

02:05:06.654 --> 02:05:08.654
but instead once acs became

02:05:08.689 --> 02:05:10.689
involved, many illegal things

02:05:14.127 --> 02:05:17.290
were already going on, and acs
moved forward to file a

02:05:17.864 --> 02:05:19.864
fraudulent petition against me.

02:05:20.733 --> 02:05:22.733
Let the record show that the acs

02:05:23.137 --> 02:05:25.137
initiated this fraudulent

02:05:27.241 --> 02:05:29.241
petition against both me and my

02:05:30.177 --> 02:05:32.177
children's father that was avoid

02:05:32.479 --> 02:05:34.479
of a commissioner's signature

02:05:35.515 --> 02:05:37.515
which deemed the petition

02:05:37.684 --> 02:05:39.118
fraudulent, null and void by
law.

02:05:41.689 --> 02:05:44.224
This did not stop the acs and
family court from targeting me

02:05:46.660 --> 02:05:48.660
and criminalizing me and having

02:05:50.197 --> 02:05:51.697
me investigated to say the least
least.

02:05:52.566 --> 02:05:54.566
Acs caseworkers and supervisors

02:05:55.402 --> 02:05:57.402
are protected under qualified

02:05:57.905 --> 02:06:00.707
immunity laws that protect
even -- that protect them, even

02:06:01.775 --> 02:06:03.775
though they break the law with

02:06:04.780 --> 02:06:06.780
acts such as making unexpected

02:06:06.380 --> 02:06:09.282
visits to the parents' homes,
banging on our doors, and

02:06:10.684 --> 02:06:12.551
threatening the parents and
frightening our children all

02:06:13.954 --> 02:06:15.954
times of the day and night, even

02:06:16.230 --> 02:06:18.525
when they know the children have
to wake up early to be at school

02:06:20.461 --> 02:06:22.461
the next day.

02:06:22.963 --> 02:06:24.963
Acs forced me into an initial

02:06:26.767 --> 02:06:29.735
hearing one morning in FEBRUARY
of 2017 and demanded that I

02:06:32.472 --> 02:06:34.474
appear at court at 2:30 P.M. The
same day.

02:06:34.775 --> 02:06:36.775
At the same time I was scheduled

02:06:37.511 --> 02:06:40.213
to pick up my children from
school.
It didn't make sense that the

02:06:41.810 --> 02:06:43.810
same people who were falsely

02:06:43.450 --> 02:06:45.450
accusing me of neglect was

02:06:45.752 --> 02:06:47.752
expecting me to simply abandon

02:06:47.988 --> 02:06:49.988
my children at school just to be

02:06:51.726 --> 02:06:54.694
at a fraudulent court case.
I knew matters were getting

02:06:55.463 --> 02:06:58.640
worse when they tried to tell me
that if I didn't stay to see the

02:06:58.799 --> 02:07:00.799
judge that day instead of go and

02:07:01.668 --> 02:07:03.668
pick up my children, that I

02:07:03.837 --> 02:07:06.706
would be in trouble.
Needless to say, I proceeded to

02:07:08.476 --> 02:07:10.476
go and pick up my children,

02:07:10.745 --> 02:07:12.745
choosing my children over

02:07:16.784 --> 02:07:18.784
staying at court.

02:07:21.540 --> 02:07:23.856
I showed up at court and
informed -- okay.

02:07:24.858 --> 02:07:26.326
So there's a discrepancy there.
>> no problem.

02:07:27.562 --> 02:07:29.863
>> the next day I showed up at
court and I informed the court

02:07:31.265 --> 02:07:33.265
that I could not stay because I

02:07:33.667 --> 02:07:35.667
had to pick up my children from

02:07:35.703 --> 02:07:37.703
school.

02:07:37.805 --> 02:07:40.606
Court was held without me, and I
was informed to return the next
day.

02:07:40.641 --> 02:07:42.641
I'm sorry about that.

02:07:44.145 --> 02:07:46.145
There was a discrepancy there.

02:07:48.149 --> 02:07:50.149
Upon my initial appearance in

02:07:53.520 --> 02:07:55.520
front of -- there's a name there

02:07:57.257 --> 02:07:59.257
so I'll just pass that -- I was

02:08:00.161 --> 02:08:02.362
deprived of my legal right to
have an attorney upon the

02:08:02.430 --> 02:08:04.430
initial court appearance.

02:08:05.833 --> 02:08:07.667
I made the court aware that I
knew -- that I know that they

02:08:09.503 --> 02:08:11.503
were operating against me in an

02:08:11.605 --> 02:08:14.400
unlawful way and had no personal
jurisdiction over me and my

02:08:16.276 --> 02:08:19.146
children as they are a
corporation, targeting my minor

02:08:20.782 --> 02:08:23.251
children and operating as a
fraudulent government.

02:08:23.251 --> 02:08:25.251
American indian families are

02:08:25.653 --> 02:08:27.854
supposed to be held to a
different standard and are a

02:08:29.456 --> 02:08:31.456
protected class in america.

02:08:31.558 --> 02:08:33.558
The indian child welfare act was

02:08:33.627 --> 02:08:35.627
supposed to protect my children

02:08:36.197 --> 02:08:38.197
from being separated from me

02:08:38.599 --> 02:08:40.599
once I informed the court that

02:08:41.335 --> 02:08:44.304
my children are, in fact, indian
children and demanded that the

02:08:45.306 --> 02:08:47.306
court honor our sovereignty and

02:08:47.842 --> 02:08:49.842
my personal jurisdiction over

02:08:51.211 --> 02:08:53.847
myself as a freestanding, free
thinking indigenous woman who

02:08:55.817 --> 02:08:58.685
has already raised two adult
children and have experience

02:08:59.554 --> 02:09:01.554
raising children as I am a

02:09:01.556 --> 02:09:03.657
matriarch in my family.
>> I want to hear every word.

02:09:04.492 --> 02:09:07.393
We have a lot of people who are
testifying, so if I could ask

02:09:08.963 --> 02:09:11.132
you to finish up, if you can.
We've already gone over the five
minutes.

02:09:11.132 --> 02:09:13.367
>> yes.
>> I don't want to rush up.

02:09:14.200 --> 02:09:16.403
I want you to tell your story,
but -- 
>> okay.

02:09:17.138 --> 02:09:19.206
So I'll just pass a lot of
this.
>> I do appreciate it.

02:09:27.615 --> 02:09:29.149
>> and I'll go down to
 -- 

02:09:29.651 --> 02:09:31.510
>> go ahead.
Please continue.

02:09:32.487 --> 02:09:34.487
>> similarly, the in criminal

02:09:34.622 --> 02:09:37.357
justice system, law enforcement
has to read people their rights

02:09:38.593 --> 02:09:41.428
when they're in custody, but cps
doesn't have any obligation to

02:09:42.229 --> 02:09:43.797
tell parents what our rights
are.

02:09:44.265 --> 02:09:46.265
No one tells us that we don't

02:09:47.302 --> 02:09:49.302
have to speak to them or tell

02:09:50.271 --> 02:09:52.271
them -- or let them into our

02:09:52.473 --> 02:09:54.473
homes or that anything we tell

02:09:55.309 --> 02:09:58.245
them can be used against us.
There's no confidentiality.

02:09:58.779 --> 02:10:00.779
The only thing worse than the

02:10:01.148 --> 02:10:03.148
trauma of being investigated by

02:10:03.852 --> 02:10:05.619
acs is the trauma of being
separated.

02:10:06.821 --> 02:10:09.456
My family experienced an immense
amount of pain while we were

02:10:11.426 --> 02:10:13.426
kept away from each other.

02:10:13.895 --> 02:10:15.895
Once while participating in a

02:10:16.364 --> 02:10:18.364
court mandated supervised visit,

02:10:19.330 --> 02:10:22.200
acs caseworkers became angry at
my daughter for asking for and

02:10:23.104 --> 02:10:26.600
receiving my phone number, which
I had given to her on a small

02:10:26.641 --> 02:10:28.641
piece of paper.

02:10:28.877 --> 02:10:30.611
She tightly balled up in her
hand.

02:10:31.579 --> 02:10:33.579
The workers became hostile.

02:10:33.715 --> 02:10:36.149
They grabbed my daughter's hand
and twisted her fingers to pry

02:10:40.880 --> 02:10:42.880
it open, stating over and over

02:10:42.390 --> 02:10:44.558
again, "you can't have her
number.
Let it go.

02:10:44.926 --> 02:10:46.926
You can't have her number.

02:10:47.595 --> 02:10:49.595
You're not allowed to have it."

02:10:50.164 --> 02:10:53.660
as my daughter screamed and
cried, "why, why?

02:10:53.301 --> 02:10:55.100
That's my mommy and I want to
call my mommy.

02:11:04.450 --> 02:11:06.450
I want my mommy."

02:11:06.347 --> 02:11:09.820
they proceeded to drag my
daughters out of the meeting

02:11:09.717 --> 02:11:11.717
room.

02:11:16.291 --> 02:11:18.291
I was manhandled by an acs

02:11:18.326 --> 02:11:20.326
police -- acs -- the acs police

02:11:23.731 --> 02:11:26.133
security guard who brutalized me
me, attacked me and restrained

02:11:28.436 --> 02:11:30.436
me.

02:11:31.607 --> 02:11:34.750
Acs works closely with the
police, as I saw when they

02:11:34.176 --> 02:11:36.176
called the police on me,

02:11:36.578 --> 02:11:38.578
however, the police are required

02:11:41.583 --> 02:11:43.583
to read me my rights when they

02:11:47.880 --> 02:11:48.756
grate and intergrate and detain
me.

02:11:49.191 --> 02:11:51.191
Acs is not even subjected to

02:11:51.293 --> 02:11:53.293
that limited accountability.

02:11:53.595 --> 02:11:55.595
I was forced to leave my

02:11:55.997 --> 02:11:57.997
children behind with strangers

02:11:58.533 --> 02:12:00.533
that day, right after witnessing

02:12:01.336 --> 02:12:03.336
their violent treatment.

02:12:03.638 --> 02:12:06.174
The whole time I could hear my
children screaming, "I want my

02:12:07.242 --> 02:12:09.242
mommy, I want my mommy" in the

02:12:09.911 --> 02:12:12.813
next room.
The family court system forces

02:12:14.516 --> 02:12:16.516
parents to jump through hoops,

02:12:16.584 --> 02:12:18.584
and most parents do because they

02:12:24.226 --> 02:12:25.493
want to see their children again
again.

02:12:26.228 --> 02:12:28.228
After the incident where my

02:12:29.264 --> 02:12:31.264
daughter cried out for me at the

02:12:32.000 --> 02:12:34.000
supervised visits, the judge

02:12:34.536 --> 02:12:36.536
blamed me and suspended my

02:12:36.838 --> 02:12:38.838
visits until I completed a

02:12:39.440 --> 02:12:42.343
mental health evaluation.
Something I had already

02:12:44.847 --> 02:12:47.715
submitted in my favor.
This type of available and

02:12:48.583 --> 02:12:50.583
punishment is typical of what

02:12:51.419 --> 02:12:53.687
parents are subjected to by
acs.
The mental health evaluation did

02:12:56.524 --> 02:12:59.127
not make me a better parent or
improve my family's well-being,

02:13:00.195 --> 02:13:02.930
but it was time, energy and
dignity I was forced to expend

02:13:04.967 --> 02:13:06.967
as a consequence of giving my

02:13:07.369 --> 02:13:09.369
daughter my phone number.

02:13:09.704 --> 02:13:11.672
I went to court to demand to see
my children.

02:13:12.730 --> 02:13:14.808
What mother would just sit
back?
If you have children, you know

02:13:15.811 --> 02:13:18.346
how hard it is to be away from
them.

02:13:19.114 --> 02:13:21.114
Now a judge is telling you that

02:13:22.417 --> 02:13:24.417
you can't even see them, and

02:13:27.550 --> 02:13:30.240
like most parents, I'm sure I.
I was shouting at the judge.

02:13:30.125 --> 02:13:32.693
I went looking for my children
because I missed them and I

02:13:36.310 --> 02:13:39.000
wanted to protect them.
Although there were orders of

02:13:40.536 --> 02:13:42.536
protection, fraudulent orders of

02:13:43.138 --> 02:13:45.138
protection but put against me.

02:13:45.407 --> 02:13:46.775
>> my friend in the back, do me
a favor.

02:13:48.176 --> 02:13:50.444
I'd like to hear the witness,
please.

02:13:51.614 --> 02:13:54.349
>> the courts were trying to
separate us to rip my kids away

02:13:54.550 --> 02:13:56.550
from me.

02:13:56.685 --> 02:13:58.685
One time I even told the judge

02:13:59.888 --> 02:14:01.888
that he auctioned off my

02:14:01.957 --> 02:14:03.957
children as if we were still in

02:14:06.394 --> 02:14:09.264
slavery times..
Acs and the family court labeled

02:14:09.899 --> 02:14:11.899
me irate.

02:14:13.602 --> 02:14:16.204
they labeled me mentally ill.
Most good parents would be irate

02:14:16.972 --> 02:14:18.972
if they were told that they

02:14:19.410 --> 02:14:21.410
couldn't see their kids.

02:14:22.440 --> 02:14:24.440
They threw me in jail several

02:14:28.250 --> 02:14:31.152
times and forced me into a
mental health evaluation

02:14:31.854 --> 02:14:33.854
situation.

02:14:33.889 --> 02:14:35.889
They also sent me to a mental

02:14:36.525 --> 02:14:38.525
institution and had me locked up

02:14:42.498 --> 02:14:44.498
there for about two weeks.

02:14:46.350 --> 02:14:47.335
It was cold and involuntary
commitment.

02:14:48.838 --> 02:14:50.838
I was told there that I would

02:14:51.907 --> 02:14:53.907
never be released until I met a

02:14:54.543 --> 02:14:57.145
kind judge who understood my
issues and demanded that I be

02:14:58.113 --> 02:15:00.113
released.

02:15:00.550 --> 02:15:03.385
I don't like to share that I was
in a mental institution because

02:15:07.220 --> 02:15:09.157
of the stigma, but I want to be
very transparent.

02:15:11.193 --> 02:15:13.193
It still hurts me very bad.

02:15:15.364 --> 02:15:17.365
I was in the facility for a week
or two.

02:15:18.568 --> 02:15:20.635
The doctor told me I was
involuntarily committed by the

02:15:21.938 --> 02:15:23.772
judge and that I'd never make
it -- okay.

02:15:26.709 --> 02:15:28.709
I said that already.

02:15:30.212 --> 02:15:32.212
It felt very dehumanizing, like

02:15:32.815 --> 02:15:34.916
I was property, like they were
fighting over property and I had

02:15:36.486 --> 02:15:38.486
no rights.

02:15:40.156 --> 02:15:42.156
I typically like to speak for

02:15:42.525 --> 02:15:44.525
myself, as is my right, but they

02:15:45.694 --> 02:15:47.694
didn't let me have a voice.

02:15:47.997 --> 02:15:49.997
The judge would cut me off,

02:15:50.732 --> 02:15:51.999
wouldn't let me answer a
question.

02:15:52.869 --> 02:15:54.869
I was being silenced and I knew

02:15:55.238 --> 02:15:57.238
it and I had to argue to be

02:15:57.807 --> 02:15:59.807
heard.

02:16:01.610 --> 02:16:03.610
Then I ""get label as irate.

02:16:04.513 --> 02:16:06.513
They created this catch-22 that

02:16:06.849 --> 02:16:08.849
at first I thought I couldn't

02:16:09.251 --> 02:16:11.153
win.
Parents get caught between a

02:16:11.688 --> 02:16:14.523
rock and a hard place.
We know we can't be aggressive

02:16:15.858 --> 02:16:17.859
because they won't give us our
children back.

02:16:18.894 --> 02:16:20.894
But I have seen my children -- I

02:16:21.931 --> 02:16:23.931
haven't seen my children in

02:16:26.702 --> 02:16:28.702
three years, almost four.

02:16:32.609 --> 02:16:34.609
I'm running out of patience.

02:16:35.770 --> 02:16:37.770
If you are a parent, how would

02:16:39.915 --> 02:16:41.915
you react to not seeing hur your

02:16:42.418 --> 02:16:44.953
kids physically if so many
years?
When acs first started their

02:16:45.421 --> 02:16:47.421
case against me, I had an

02:16:47.457 --> 02:16:49.457
apartment and a stable home, but

02:16:50.426 --> 02:16:53.280
because of what acs put me
through, they conspired to put

02:16:55.231 --> 02:16:56.565
me out of my home, and I lotz my
home.

02:16:58.134 --> 02:17:00.401
I lost my apartment.
How was that helping my family

02:17:02.339 --> 02:17:04.339
or my children?

02:17:05.575 --> 02:17:07.542
Acs says its job is to help
families, but really they are

02:17:08.278 --> 02:17:10.278
only making matters worse and

02:17:10.480 --> 02:17:12.480
putting our children in danger.

02:17:13.516 --> 02:17:16.510
My main goal is to see my little
girls again, of course.

02:17:16.952 --> 02:17:18.952
I want the system that allows

02:17:19.221 --> 02:17:20.455
for families to be separated to
change.

02:17:23.126 --> 02:17:25.126
I want the people who do this to

02:17:25.995 --> 02:17:27.396
innocent parent to be held
accountable.

02:17:28.665 --> 02:17:31.633
No one should have the power to
rip children and babies from

02:17:32.935 --> 02:17:34.935
their families, from their

02:17:35.971 --> 02:17:38.607
loving families, especially and
particularly their protective,

02:17:41.770 --> 02:17:43.946
loving mothers.
The end.
I conclude.

02:17:46.282 --> 02:17:48.717
>> thank you very, very much why
are your testimony.
[Applause]

02:17:50.253 --> 02:17:52.654
It takes an incredible amount of
courage to do what both of you

02:17:53.189 --> 02:17:55.758
just did, and I'm really
grateful and I will inform how

02:17:55.959 --> 02:17:58.561
we look to change the system in
the future, but thank you for

02:17:59.329 --> 02:18:01.364
testifying, both of you.
appreciate it.
>> very moving.

02:18:01.364 --> 02:18:03.364
>> thank you.

02:18:04.400 --> 02:18:06.400
>> the next panel, if we can

02:18:06.702 --> 02:18:08.804
bring up miriam mack, the policy
counsel and staff attorney from

02:18:09.972 --> 02:18:11.972
the family defense practice at

02:18:14.878 --> 02:18:16.878
the bronx defenders.

02:18:18.915 --> 02:18:20.915
Nil nil nila natarajan.

02:18:22.719 --> 02:18:24.719
With a name supervising and

02:18:25.254 --> 02:18:26.555
policy counsel from brooklyn
defenders.

02:18:27.290 --> 02:18:29.925
And zainab akbar, the managing
attorney of family defense

02:18:30.270 --> 02:18:32.928
practice and neighborhood
deferred services of harlem.
Thank you all for coming.

02:18:34.164 --> 02:18:36.432
I really, really appreciate it.
I'll leave you to it.

02:18:36.699 --> 02:18:38.467
Please, the floor is yours.
>> of this with chair.

02:18:39.469 --> 02:18:41.571
I think we're going to go in
reverse order that we're
listed.

02:18:41.571 --> 02:18:43.571
>> how dare you?

02:18:44.400 --> 02:18:46.208
>> let me take off my mask.
My name is zainab akbar and I'm

02:18:46.742 --> 02:18:49.278
the managing attorney of the
family defendants practice, the

02:18:49.313 --> 02:18:50.980
the neighborhood deferred
service of harlem.

02:18:51.681 --> 02:18:54.383
Before I get into my testimony I
wanted to point out that the

02:18:54.617 --> 02:18:56.617
commissioner of acs left as soon

02:18:56.686 --> 02:18:59.421
as the first panel was called.
>> he did leave.
You're right.

02:19:00.490 --> 02:19:02.557
But he did leave people here
watching.

02:19:03.590 --> 02:19:05.260
>> I appreciate that but I do
think there's nothing more

02:19:05.896 --> 02:19:07.896
important for the commissioner

02:19:08.432 --> 02:19:10.432
who to hear than the stories of

02:19:11.201 --> 02:19:12.768
the people of the institution
that he leaved leaves apps

02:19:13.403 --> 02:19:16.372
impact on them, and
especially -- there are dozens
of impacted parents in the room,

02:19:17.400 --> 02:19:19.275
and they're sitting through
listening to that testimony and

02:19:19.275 --> 02:19:21.275
he is not.

02:19:21.944 --> 02:19:23.646
I just wanted to point that
out.

02:19:24.314 --> 02:19:26.314
So thank you for centering

02:19:26.350 --> 02:19:28.751
impacted people today to speak
truth with the violence of the
system.

02:19:29.200 --> 02:19:31.987
For too long the legislative
floor has belonged to the

02:19:32.322 --> 02:19:34.322
government agencies that have

02:19:34.924 --> 02:19:37.326
terrorized low income black and
brown communities that they
claim to serve.

02:19:38.227 --> 02:19:41.300
I encourage this body and all
other elect officials to

02:19:41.198 --> 02:19:43.699
prioritize the voices of the
people e. Who elected them and

02:19:44.701 --> 02:19:47.503
they vow to serve and
deprioritize lauer enforcement
agencies which includes acs and

02:19:49.339 --> 02:19:50.573
other so-called social services
agency.

02:19:51.441 --> 02:19:53.441
I have represented parents and

02:19:53.610 --> 02:19:56.111
caretakers in family court in
booking and manhattan over the
last decade.

02:19:56.913 --> 02:19:59.549
In my testimony I seek to
provide background to this body

02:20:02.352 --> 02:20:04.554
as to why we call the so-child
welfare sem the family policing

02:20:04.554 --> 02:20:07.323
system.
Just like our moreland police

02:20:08.291 --> 02:20:10.291
systems are directly descend

02:20:10.360 --> 02:20:12.360
from slave patrols, today's

02:20:12.796 --> 02:20:14.830
family system comes from our
country's hither of separating

02:20:15.666 --> 02:20:17.667
intestinal just, black and brown
children from their parents in

02:20:17.868 --> 02:20:19.669
order to destroy their
communities.

02:20:20.671 --> 02:20:22.671
Mds and other family deferred

02:20:22.739 --> 02:20:25.374
testifying today will not be
using child welfare system

02:20:26.176 --> 02:20:28.611
because that name deliberate
object ifs kates the system's

02:20:28.611 --> 02:20:30.713
history and purpose.
Instead it's a family policing

02:20:31.314 --> 02:20:33.650
system or the family leg
relation system.

02:20:35.520 --> 02:20:37.321
This sem is racist and violence
at its core, origin and

02:20:37.321 --> 02:20:39.589
foundation.
It's not a system that addresses

02:20:39.723 --> 02:20:40.990
the needs of children and
systems.

02:20:42.250 --> 02:20:44.930
It is instead a system that
punishes, control witness

02:20:45.529 --> 02:20:47.830
surveils and forcibly separates
low income black and brown

02:20:48.698 --> 02:20:50.633
families for no other region
than they are low income and

02:20:50.868 --> 02:20:52.868
black and brown.

02:20:54.926 --> 02:20:56.806
The family placing systems are
in the origin of enslaving black

02:20:58.842 --> 02:21:01.277
and brown parents who sought to
of profit from their labor.

02:21:02.780 --> 02:21:04.780
In separating indigital just

02:21:04.281 --> 02:21:06.281
children fromner parents -- the

02:21:06.816 --> 02:21:09.752
land they were seeking to
colonize.
Our government institutionalized

02:21:09.820 --> 02:21:11.820
indigital just children under a

02:21:12.220 --> 02:21:14.220
policy that was quote, save the

02:21:14.525 --> 02:21:16.525
indian, safe the man, unquote.

02:21:18.595 --> 02:21:20.363
That policy physically and
explored exceed thousands of

02:21:22.332 --> 02:21:25.200
indigital just us in children in
the indian act which even in

02:21:25.770 --> 02:21:27.770
imperfect but sovereignty back

02:21:27.972 --> 02:21:29.972
of indigenous children back in

02:21:32.443 --> 02:21:34.644
their community's mands 2 system
continued with george at the

02:21:35.312 --> 02:21:37.312
turn of obituary which the

02:21:38.181 --> 02:21:40.150
children's aid society separated
thousands of poor italian and

02:21:41.751 --> 02:21:43.420
irish grant children from their
families, children who at the

02:21:44.622 --> 02:21:47.557
time were not seen as white, and
sent those children to the

02:21:48.959 --> 02:21:51.260
midwest to work on farms.
The families to have been

02:21:51.862 --> 02:21:54.630
affected are considered inferior
and therefore ek bring those

02:21:54.164 --> 02:21:57.133
connection was considered to be
to their and, more important, to

02:21:57.401 --> 02:21:59.702
society's benefit.
The family policing system we

02:21:59.837 --> 02:22:02.672
fight today is rooted in this
history but it's funding did not

02:22:03.740 --> 02:22:05.776
explode until republicans and
democrats alike slashed public

02:22:05.776 --> 02:22:07.776
assistance programs in the

02:22:08.612 --> 02:22:10.612
'80s and '90s in prones to can

02:22:10.714 --> 02:22:12.714
blah families having the

02:22:12.716 --> 02:22:15.284
audacity to demand equal access
to social rights programs there

02:22:15.819 --> 02:22:18.288
2 civil rights of the '60s.
The cuts were cut with billions

02:22:19.560 --> 02:22:22.250
of dollars of new funding in
foster care.

02:22:25.830 --> 02:22:26.496
In 1981 the foster care budget
stood at less than $3 million.

02:22:29.320 --> 02:22:30.299
By 2003 was 4.
$5billion.

02:22:31.602 --> 02:22:34.470
Suddenly is family policing
system had more powery is they

02:22:35.773 --> 02:22:38.750
went out looking for for nails.
In what can communities families

02:22:38.750 --> 02:22:40.750
were made particularly

02:22:40.411 --> 02:22:43.346
vulnerable by the war on drugs
and cuts to public assistance.

02:22:44.114 --> 02:22:46.683
Those campus and surge to family
policing agencies amount of to a

02:22:49.119 --> 02:22:51.119
two of had pronged attack on can

02:22:51.388 --> 02:22:53.623
blah families stereotyped about
blab mothers.

02:22:55.426 --> 02:22:56.626
The welfare queen trop singe a
life.

02:22:58.362 --> 02:23:00.930
It is dressed up a neglect
finding hurled a work go mother

02:23:01.465 --> 02:23:04.334
you as they abduct her
children.
Research from all corners from

02:23:04.501 --> 02:23:07.271
the federal children's bureau
the to national council for

02:23:07.271 --> 02:23:09.271
juvenile and family court judges

02:23:10.800 --> 02:23:12.709
to numbers reported by ags
itself demonstrate that

02:23:15.120 --> 02:23:17.380
indigital just black and brown
systems.
Are fortunately police
department in reports and

02:23:18.115 --> 02:23:20.115
investigations by the familily

02:23:20.751 --> 02:23:22.751
policing system and that

02:23:23.487 --> 02:23:25.487
indigenous black and brown

02:23:28.613 --> 02:23:29.873
children are represented in the
family policing system.
These are reliable and

02:23:31.562 --> 02:23:33.631
consistently coups a variety of
research, masquerading as social

02:23:33.631 --> 02:23:36.299
betterment.
Since I began doing this the

02:23:36.333 --> 02:23:38.902
work a decade ago I have seen
this racism and abusive power

02:23:39.300 --> 02:23:41.638
with my own eyes.
White families are ept can

02:23:42.720 --> 02:23:44.474
together by caseworkers and
lawyers under circumstances in

02:23:44.809 --> 02:23:46.777
which black and brown families
are separated.

02:23:47.679 --> 02:23:50.280
White parents are given a second
chance by caseworkers and

02:23:51.182 --> 02:23:53.182
lawyers whereas black and brown

02:23:53.217 --> 02:23:55.685
are fundamentally flawed.
Caseworkers use the threat of

02:23:56.520 --> 02:23:58.520
police involvement to coerce

02:23:58.622 --> 02:24:00.623
vulnerable families to relynn
wishy ever your they are

02:24:00.624 --> 02:24:02.725
constitutional rights before a
court is even involved.

02:24:03.128 --> 02:24:05.462
Hops work in concert with the
system to target low income

02:24:06.197 --> 02:24:08.465
black and brown parents to drug
test them without consent

02:24:08.666 --> 02:24:11.201
regardless of whether there are
any actual child safety

02:24:13.971 --> 02:24:16.739
concerns, a legacy of the now
debunked racist crack baby
myth.

02:24:17.908 --> 02:24:19.908
The it empowers the.

02:24:20.110 --> 02:24:22.480
Greedy landlords, greedy lovers
by allowing anonymous reports to

02:24:22.480 --> 02:24:25.148
be filed leaving families to
pick up 2 feces after the

02:24:25.450 --> 02:24:28.318
resulting untruth of
investigations.
All of these processes function

02:24:31.989 --> 02:24:34.725
as a broad stop and fridays k
nine dick into a system that has

02:24:34.725 --> 02:24:36.725
always torn them apart.

02:24:37.662 --> 02:24:39.997
Many of us envision a world in
the government prioritizes low

02:24:40.331 --> 02:24:42.567
income families of color instead
of prioritizing surveillance and

02:24:42.567 --> 02:24:45.200
punishment.
If funding structures that

02:24:45.303 --> 02:24:47.737
existed to support low income
families before the des MAY go

02:24:48.306 --> 02:24:51.274
of social state of net in the
1980s and '90s illustrate the

02:24:51.375 --> 02:24:53.910
vast possibilities of support
for families.

02:24:54.111 --> 02:24:56.980
One small step towards a world
in which he as a society compare

02:24:57.282 --> 02:24:59.983
for and support low income
families of color, a world which

02:25:01.190 --> 02:25:03.186
is possible, is for this body to
bass legislation to affirm

02:25:03.288 --> 02:25:05.789
families' rights and to hold the
family policing system

02:25:06.457 --> 02:25:09.192
accountable for violence it
perpetrates.
The assembly must take concrete

02:25:09.827 --> 02:25:11.361
steps to improve outcomes for
families.

02:25:12.130 --> 02:25:13.831
The legislature should vote to
end none list reporting to the

02:25:14.199 --> 02:25:16.267
state central registry and to
protect families from malicious

02:25:16.267 --> 02:25:18.267
actors using the power of the

02:25:18.570 --> 02:25:20.404
state to harm them.
The legislature should protect

02:25:22.306 --> 02:25:24.442
new parents and their babies by
requiring informed consent

02:25:24.442 --> 02:25:25.675
before they are drug set of
tested.

02:25:27.878 --> 02:25:29.446
By hospitals and is the state
must institute miranda like

02:25:30.816 --> 02:25:33.350
rights for transparency to the
policing them for families

02:25:33.618 --> 02:25:35.652
facing situations unaware of
their gravity.

02:25:36.121 --> 02:25:38.889
They steeps are important and we
urge 2 assembly to act to them

02:25:39.691 --> 02:25:42.359
now but they also amount to
mitigation of the most damaging

02:25:42.426 --> 02:25:45.295
tolls of the family -- that the
family policing system exacts

02:25:46.163 --> 02:25:48.799
from low income black and brown
families.
The.

02:25:53.271 --> 02:25:55.271
Truly reckon we must definance

02:25:55.673 --> 02:25:57.841
the system and -- that
imblankets low income families.

02:25:58.676 --> 02:26:00.945
>> you can clap for that as
well.
MS. Akbar, thank you for your

02:26:00.945 --> 02:26:03.346
testimony.
A couple of things.

02:26:03.748 --> 02:26:05.748
Come quick points that are easy

02:26:05.817 --> 02:26:07.818
and I'll get to the top one.
First the anonymous reporting

02:26:08.320 --> 02:26:10.320
will be moving on that bill.

02:26:10.522 --> 02:26:12.590
If new parents and their babies,
I'm pretty sure there's a bill

02:26:12.590 --> 02:26:14.792
going through.
You forget who is carrying it

02:26:15.560 --> 02:26:17.560
but there's a bill to do that,

02:26:17.795 --> 02:26:20.597
to stop ran tom drug testing el
is, and then, of course, the
miranda rights.

02:26:21.232 --> 02:26:23.901
So those are all act of.
I will also tell you you ended

02:26:24.302 --> 02:26:27.138
your testimony with a push for
more money.
That's coming, too, I can

02:26:27.138 --> 02:26:30.700
promise you.
But here's what I want to drill

02:26:31.443 --> 02:26:34.440
down on, and this is a topic
that I guy like me should not be

02:26:37.115 --> 02:26:39.115
touching, but you mentioned that

02:26:39.218 --> 02:26:42.530
there's stereotypes that we are
dealing with that are
contributing to the the

02:26:42.587 --> 02:26:44.455
frontline racism as a door into
the system.

02:26:46.992 --> 02:26:49.393
But as you mentioned, that's
rooted in racist tropes.

02:26:50.280 --> 02:26:51.295
You go back to the welfare
queen.

02:26:53.698 --> 02:26:55.932
I think it even goes back even
further, you know, to slave

02:26:57.436 --> 02:26:59.503
times where there's a stigma
that african american mothers

02:26:59.838 --> 02:27:01.838
don't care for their babies

02:27:02.441 --> 02:27:04.441
because they were too focused on

02:27:04.943 --> 02:27:06.410
caring for the white people,
their kids.

02:27:07.579 --> 02:27:09.313
So this racist stereotype has
been with us forever.

02:27:09.781 --> 02:27:12.649
It's been updated in the
'80s.
It's all over the place.

02:27:13.818 --> 02:27:15.887
This idea that it's just
factually inaccurate that

02:27:16.421 --> 02:27:18.856
african american women or black
women don't care for their

02:27:19.258 --> 02:27:21.792
babies is just ridiculous but
how do we deal with that?

02:27:22.894 --> 02:27:25.596
As you know, it's affecting the
system.
>> I think the first place to

02:27:28.666 --> 02:27:31.201
start, and I'm no expert, but is
to really approach acs's claim

02:27:33.472 --> 02:27:35.339
that they want to become an
anti-raisist institution with

02:27:36.408 --> 02:27:38.909
scepticism because you cannot
turn a system that is rooted in

02:27:40.512 --> 02:27:41.812
video game into an antiracist
institution.

02:27:43.348 --> 02:27:45.783
And then the next step is to
think about the billions of

02:27:45.850 --> 02:27:48.352
dollars that go to that system,
and that's just for new york
city.

02:27:50.322 --> 02:27:52.390
They of a $2.6 billion budget in
new york city alone.

02:27:53.525 --> 02:27:55.426
I don't know what the budget
stanford entire state.
>> it's big.

02:27:55.961 --> 02:27:58.563
>> it's huge week I can
imagine.
But to history the funding from

02:27:58.563 --> 02:28:01.365
the institution that has its
history and cannot erase its

02:28:02.100 --> 02:28:04.435
history, cannot take it away,
when you get cut and there's a

02:28:04.569 --> 02:28:07.204
scar, the scar doesn't
disappear.
The you have a scar for the rest
of your life.

02:28:07.439 --> 02:28:09.439
>> I get it.

02:28:09.842 --> 02:28:11.442
>> to move the money from those
institutions to communities.

02:28:12.244 --> 02:28:13.945
>> I get it, but can I be
brutally honest?

02:28:14.379 --> 02:28:16.379
It's not going to happen.

02:28:17.182 --> 02:28:19.182
When I can do, what we can do is

02:28:20.185 --> 02:28:22.185
go get money, real money, new

02:28:22.587 --> 02:28:24.488
raising revenue, new whatever
that looks like, and there will

02:28:26.292 --> 02:28:27.859
be a proposal from us, from the
democratic-led assembly and

02:28:29.395 --> 02:28:32.230
hopefully the senate as well, to
do exactly that, but I don't

02:28:32.631 --> 02:28:34.565
think even if we wanted to we
can take money from the system

02:28:35.934 --> 02:28:37.934
that I understand you call it

02:28:39.604 --> 02:28:42.439
the family -- I get it.
But there are colleagues and

02:28:42.708 --> 02:28:45.760
people around the state who
still see at a this is child

02:28:45.711 --> 02:28:47.711
welfare system so trying to take

02:28:47.780 --> 02:28:49.780
money away from that is not

02:28:50.480 --> 02:28:52.917
something I could deliver even
if I wanted to.
>> sure.

02:28:53.180 --> 02:28:55.853
I was thinking about something
you said earlier, chair, about

02:28:56.288 --> 02:28:58.822
the key being prevention.
I think all of of the impact

02:29:00.159 --> 02:29:02.961
parents would tell you
prevalence another form of
surveillance, that it's not

02:29:03.262 --> 02:29:04.862
actually helpful, the prevention
services that exist.

02:29:06.131 --> 02:29:08.666
>> that's because -- sorry to
cut off.
Is that because they're run to

02:29:08.734 --> 02:29:11.669
acs?
>> yes.
>> what if there was a mechanism

02:29:12.404 --> 02:29:14.338
and this is not a hypothetical.
This is something that's
coming.

02:29:14.506 --> 02:29:17.141
There's a mechanism to fund
these kind of programs, not -- I

02:29:17.877 --> 02:29:19.877
am weeks there will be programs

02:29:19.945 --> 02:29:22.547
that are still run through acs.
That's a reality.

02:29:23.282 --> 02:29:25.616
But there are also going to
be -- we're looking to infuse

02:29:25.784 --> 02:29:27.920
money into programs that are
community controlled, that have

02:29:27.920 --> 02:29:30.855
another mechanism.
We're trying to work that out.

02:29:31.723 --> 02:29:34.492
Is that something that you could
support?
>> I think it depends.

02:29:35.361 --> 02:29:38.163
The system is so interlocking.
We come back to the system of

02:29:39.465 --> 02:29:41.866
mandated reporting and joyce
spoke about so well.

02:29:42.201 --> 02:29:44.201
If we don't have a system where

02:29:44.803 --> 02:29:47.205
the focus isn't on ri critiquing
aia person or worrying about

02:29:47.539 --> 02:29:50.108
losing your license if you don't
report something and not having

02:29:50.108 --> 02:29:53.780
any accountability about the
impact of reporting on a family,

02:29:53.279 --> 02:29:55.280
if we don't address that, then
we're not going to be -- it's

02:29:56.482 --> 02:29:58.616
not going to matter whether or
not it's fund upped outside of
acs because -- 

02:29:59.652 --> 02:30:01.652
>> totally get that.

02:30:03.122 --> 02:30:05.122
>> so again, the problem with

02:30:05.524 --> 02:30:08.600
this topic, these topics is they
conflict, two things you rally

02:30:08.600 --> 02:30:10.595
care about.
The mandated reporting system,

02:30:11.664 --> 02:30:13.198
in theory, seems like a good
idea.

02:30:15.334 --> 02:30:17.569
In practice, it has turned for
many families into something way

02:30:18.437 --> 02:30:21.400
different and way more sinister
anded ba as a precursor to you

02:30:21.400 --> 02:30:23.740
losing your kids.
So I get that.

02:30:24.900 --> 02:30:26.100
I don't know how to reshovel
that issue but I'm glad you're

02:30:26.612 --> 02:30:29.481
bringing it up.
>> I think part of it is

02:30:29.582 --> 02:30:31.883
shifting our thought process
about thinking of child safety

02:30:32.180 --> 02:30:33.885
and parent safety as two
differential things.

02:30:36.389 --> 02:30:39.240
The the child safety the parent
safety.
If a fayetteville-year-old.
You have a 12-year-old.

02:30:39.240 --> 02:30:41.160
You cabot imagine there's a
difference between you and your

02:30:41.160 --> 02:30:42.894
child.
There isn't.

02:30:43.595 --> 02:30:46.331
The things that you believe in,
the thing that you value, the

02:30:46.566 --> 02:30:48.566
actions you take every single

02:30:49.335 --> 02:30:52.203
day are focused on your children
and their betterment, and that's

02:30:52.738 --> 02:30:54.738
where this trop comes in, the

02:30:54.874 --> 02:30:56.874
idea families of color, low

02:30:57.142 --> 02:30:59.744
income families don't have that
approach.
I think part of it is an

02:31:00.780 --> 02:31:02.514
education process, like there's
nothing different between the

02:31:03.249 --> 02:31:05.217
way you and I think about our
children and the way people who

02:31:05.818 --> 02:31:07.986
are ensnared in the system think
about children, but the system

02:31:08.721 --> 02:31:10.689
treats them as though they are
different, they're a

02:31:11.257 --> 02:31:13.558
differential animal than we
are.
>> I total get that.

02:31:13.726 --> 02:31:16.628
Part of the problem, though, and
this is why it's so

02:31:16.628 --> 02:31:18.628
confounding -- I'm acknowledging

02:31:20.333 --> 02:31:23.100
my understanding of racism,
look, I've heard those tropes.

02:31:23.269 --> 02:31:26.104
They've been around my entire
life.
So if I've heard them, I think

02:31:26.505 --> 02:31:28.139
most people have heard them is
my guess.

02:31:28.641 --> 02:31:31.543
The problem is they are so
emedded about in our culture,

02:31:33.479 --> 02:31:35.914
and first of all, they originate
from the most ugly part of

02:31:36.816 --> 02:31:39.510
american history, the absolute
worst part of american history,

02:31:39.986 --> 02:31:42.888
and they've been pervasive down
until now, and they're so

02:31:43.389 --> 02:31:45.390
pervasive that they're even
adopted by african american

02:31:46.125 --> 02:31:48.860
caseworkers or other people of
similar ethnic background.

02:31:48.861 --> 02:31:51.629
What do we do?
We're going to educating as much
as possible.

02:31:52.131 --> 02:31:54.432
You fight the stereotype and
we're going to work on these

02:31:54.834 --> 02:31:56.935
bills and try to get money, but
the thing that I don't have a

02:31:59.500 --> 02:32:01.206
handle on is how do you confront
a system that is driving the

02:32:01.974 --> 02:32:04.276
numbers we see for black and
brown families to be ripped

02:32:06.145 --> 02:32:08.145
apart as a posed to their normal

02:32:08.214 --> 02:32:10.214
percentage of the population?

02:32:10.382 --> 02:32:12.618
It is so huge that I feel like
something needs to be done and I

02:32:13.219 --> 02:32:15.219
just have no idea what to do.

02:32:16.623 --> 02:32:19.570
>> well, I agree with joyce,
close schools and close
prisons.

02:32:19.325 --> 02:32:21.626
>> say it again?
>> I'm sorry.

02:32:22.896 --> 02:32:24.663
Get cops out of schools and
close prisons.

02:32:27.733 --> 02:32:29.467
I didn't mean to close schools.
Additionally, I think, you know,

02:32:31.571 --> 02:32:34.106
I feel confident in your ability
to convince your colleagues that

02:32:35.541 --> 02:32:38.760
this stereotype is so deeply
embed in the way that we

02:32:38.177 --> 02:32:40.579
approach this system and the way
that we think about the parents

02:32:40.613 --> 02:32:43.515
who are entrapped the in system,
and I also think if we've

02:32:44.116 --> 02:32:46.584
learned I go in the from the
last year when george floyd was

02:32:47.220 --> 02:32:50.550
murdered is this isn't a
destination, it's a journey.

02:32:50.390 --> 02:32:52.591
We have to be committed to
returning to these questions at

02:32:52.659 --> 02:32:54.659
every opportunity that we have

02:32:54.994 --> 02:32:57.195
and not just when the moment is
right.
And so my -- 

02:32:57.230 --> 02:32:59.564
>> I appreciate it.
>> there's no solution but I

02:32:59.699 --> 02:33:02.667
think it's to keep coming back
to these questions.
>> that was very clever.

02:33:03.737 --> 02:33:05.504
Just so you know, we are
actively working with some of

02:33:07.440 --> 02:33:09.440
the people in this troom to go

02:33:09.542 --> 02:33:10.843
educate your colleagues.
We're on it.

02:33:11.544 --> 02:33:13.445
>> we'll support you in that all
the way.
>> cool.

02:33:13.913 --> 02:33:16.349
Thank you very much.
Please.
>> good afternoon.

02:33:16.349 --> 02:33:19.217
My name is nila natarajan and
I'm a supervising attorney and

02:33:19.518 --> 02:33:21.722
policy counsel at brooklyn
deferred services in our family

02:33:21.722 --> 02:33:24.256
defense practice.
On braff of brooklyn deferred

02:33:25.525 --> 02:33:27.660
services I'd look to thank the
assembly standing committee on

02:33:28.294 --> 02:33:30.262
children and families as well as
assemblymembers heavy ri and

02:33:31.970 --> 02:33:33.165
barnes are the for opportunity
to discussion vital legislation

02:33:33.699 --> 02:33:36.134
that is needed to address the
family regulation system's

02:33:36.269 --> 02:33:38.269
harmful impact on communities of

02:33:38.638 --> 02:33:41.507
color and low income families,
as we've been and using.

02:33:41.508 --> 02:33:44.176
Brooklyn deferred serviced
provides multi-disciplinary and

02:33:45.278 --> 02:33:47.880
client centers criminal defense,
family excess of and civil legal

02:33:50.617 --> 02:33:53.510
services in nearly 30,000 cases
could have gone brooklyn
residents every career.

02:33:53.219 --> 02:33:55.687
Our family defense practice in
the last 14 years has

02:33:56.957 --> 02:33:59.692
represented almost 14,000 parent
and caretakers in brooklyn

02:33:59.926 --> 02:34:01.926
involving the lives of over

02:34:02.462 --> 02:34:05.364
30,000 children.
The ongoing covid-19 pandemic

02:34:07.167 --> 02:34:09.901
has helped ray bare profound
negative in our state and bring

02:34:11.400 --> 02:34:13.710
this have deepened the
disparities in health care,

02:34:13.774 --> 02:34:16.576
employment and housing stability
and have made marginalized

02:34:17.444 --> 02:34:19.445
communities that much more
vulnerable to being targeted boo

02:34:19.913 --> 02:34:22.810
the family regulation system.
At the same time as a nation we

02:34:22.916 --> 02:34:25.350
are also experiencing a long
overdue public reckoning of

02:34:25.785 --> 02:34:27.785
systemic racism and the violent

02:34:27.854 --> 02:34:30.356
impact of systems of policing
and australians that fail to be

02:34:30.356 --> 02:34:32.792
accountable to the communities
most harmed.

02:34:33.860 --> 02:34:36.620
We must consider the family
regulation system that is

02:34:36.229 --> 02:34:38.229
historically targeted

02:34:38.298 --> 02:34:40.298
communities of color within this

02:34:42.135 --> 02:34:44.135
con context.

02:34:45.338 --> 02:34:47.338
In this moment this committee

02:34:48.740 --> 02:34:50.510
has the can investigate and pass
straightforward regulation that

02:34:50.944 --> 02:34:52.778
holds the system accountable and
ensures that families receive

02:34:53.480 --> 02:34:55.480
the support and resources they

02:34:55.682 --> 02:34:57.950
need and not surveillance.
That are need today keep

02:34:58.151 --> 02:34:59.818
families together and for them
to thrive.

02:35:01.554 --> 02:35:04.122
like the criminal legal system,
race and poverty and australians

02:35:04.958 --> 02:35:06.958
and punishment are defining

02:35:07.161 --> 02:35:08.795
characteristics of family
regulation system.

02:35:09.563 --> 02:35:12.264
As we know in new york black
children make up 40% of the

02:35:13.867 --> 02:35:15.867
children in foster care yet make

02:35:17.504 --> 02:35:20.390
up only 15 persons of the which
chute winner are 20% of the

02:35:20.373 --> 02:35:23.275
children in foster care and 48%
of the children in the state.

02:35:24.511 --> 02:35:27.146
While poverty MAY be an
indicator of the likelihood of

02:35:27.881 --> 02:35:29.682
family regulation system
involvement for a child, a

02:35:30.651 --> 02:35:33.519
family or a community, it is not
because poverty leads to neglect

02:35:34.588 --> 02:35:37.222
but because a lack of resources
to care for a child can be

02:35:37.591 --> 02:35:39.958
confused for maltreatment.
The lack of resources for

02:35:40.693 --> 02:35:43.129
parents can leave families
unsupported in a crisis.

02:35:43.230 --> 02:35:45.230
And the intense stress of

02:35:45.532 --> 02:35:48.670
unstable housing and income can
make already vulnerable families

02:35:48.435 --> 02:35:50.736
easily susceptible to being
targeted by the system.

02:35:52.272 --> 02:35:53.939
Given the systemic racism
engraved in the family

02:35:55.108 --> 02:35:57.342
regulation system and the
accompany disdistrust of a

02:35:57.444 --> 02:35:59.211
punitive and
surveillance-oriented approach,

02:35:59.947 --> 02:36:01.947
the family regulation system is

02:36:02.149 --> 02:36:03.650
ill equipped to support
families.

02:36:04.885 --> 02:36:07.753
Studies are clear that providing
real economic resources, that's

02:36:08.822 --> 02:36:10.690
money, directly to families
corresponds with the reduction

02:36:11.691 --> 02:36:13.425
in family regulation system
involvement.

02:36:15.595 --> 02:36:17.595
That is a true prevent service.

02:36:17.665 --> 02:36:19.665
Again, similar to the ways in

02:36:19.733 --> 02:36:21.733
which criminal legal systems has

02:36:22.269 --> 02:36:24.269
been expose dollars for ural

02:36:24.705 --> 02:36:27.106
racialized pretext to stop and
frisk a person based on their

02:36:27.808 --> 02:36:30.477
race or neighborhood, an initial
child well tare.

02:36:30.477 --> 02:36:32.945
Investigation regardless of the
merit or source of those

02:36:33.881 --> 02:36:35.881
allegations can lead to further

02:36:36.517 --> 02:36:39.520
invasive involvement by this
system.
Hours long interviews where

02:36:39.687 --> 02:36:41.687
families MAY share about

02:36:41.922 --> 02:36:44.290
themselves in excruciating
detail, requests for confidently

02:36:44.891 --> 02:36:46.891
methyl and medical information,

02:36:48.729 --> 02:36:50.863
request for drug tests,
generations in search of

02:36:52.300 --> 02:36:55.235
children in homes, all of which
can and will be used against and

02:36:56.360 --> 02:36:58.438
family and all of which families
provide to the government
believing they must.

02:36:59.273 --> 02:37:02.800
It is in this context that we
must view both the need for the

02:37:02.900 --> 02:37:04.900
family miranda legislation at

02:37:04.211 --> 02:37:06.211
the state and city level as well

02:37:06.513 --> 02:37:08.513
as the opposition to it.

02:37:10.951 --> 02:37:13.753
If we as a society ocfs and acs
as powerful government tentwise

02:37:14.288 --> 02:37:16.689
this assembly as elected fishes
entrusted to keep families safe

02:37:17.891 --> 02:37:19.891
are saying we want a less

02:37:20.294 --> 02:37:22.962
harmful and best less biased
system then we must stand for

02:37:22.963 --> 02:37:25.264
parents, all parents regardless
of income, county or

02:37:26.467 --> 02:37:27.734
neighborhood to know their
rights.

02:37:28.502 --> 02:37:30.537
When this is opposed, we are
staying that parent without

02:37:32.339 --> 02:37:34.339
access to this information

02:37:34.742 --> 02:37:37.210
should remain less aware of
their rights than their more a

02:37:37.411 --> 02:37:39.412
newton counterparts.
We are saying we don't want

02:37:39.780 --> 02:37:41.780
parents empowered to have a say

02:37:41.848 --> 02:37:44.250
in their own homes, that they
should remain misinformed and

02:37:44.886 --> 02:37:46.686
give their most private
information tot to the

02:37:47.722 --> 02:37:50.560
government without question.
When these powerful agencies

02:37:51.358 --> 02:37:53.920
hide behind concerns about
urgent highlight child safety

02:37:55.295 --> 02:37:57.497
needs, they misstate the law.
The miranda legislation before

02:37:57.931 --> 02:38:00.320
the state assembly addresses
existing family rights and does

02:38:00.834 --> 02:38:02.836
not hinder the government's
ability to immediately intervene

02:38:04.705 --> 02:38:06.705
in an emergency.

02:38:08.442 --> 02:38:10.310
When they say stating a parent's
rights during a investigation

02:38:10.978 --> 02:38:13.913
will make a routine
investigation more serious they

02:38:14.810 --> 02:38:16.582
misstate this reality.
There is knowing less routine or

02:38:17.751 --> 02:38:20.287
more serious than the government
knocking can on your door asking

02:38:20.555 --> 02:38:22.555
to speak to your churn alone

02:38:23.424 --> 02:38:26.192
with the power to remove those
children from your care.
Chu.

02:38:26.394 --> 02:38:29.163
>> if I can, just a couple
questions.
>> absolutely.
>> I'm going to do this for you

02:38:29.163 --> 02:38:30.496
as well.
Sorry.

02:38:31.198 --> 02:38:32.599
So first, you mentioned direct
cash payments.

02:38:33.734 --> 02:38:34.934
I want you to know that's on our
radar.

02:38:37.805 --> 02:38:39.805
But then let me go to the more

02:38:42.276 --> 02:38:43.943
serious point.
Okay.

02:38:45.346 --> 02:38:47.346
So if a family gets reported to

02:38:48.415 --> 02:38:50.415
the ser they have an indicated

02:38:50.818 --> 02:38:52.952
case of neglect or
maltreatment -- let's just focus

02:38:54.220 --> 02:38:56.757
on that for a second -- I am of
the personal opinion that the

02:38:57.191 --> 02:38:58.925
failure not just the parents but
the government as well because

02:38:59.627 --> 02:39:01.627
we have not provided what the

02:39:02.163 --> 02:39:04.464
family needs to succeed, but yet
the parent is the only one who

02:39:05.666 --> 02:39:07.433
is getting punished for that by
family separation.

02:39:09.169 --> 02:39:11.170
Could you dig more deeply into
that but point of the necessity

02:39:11.239 --> 02:39:13.308
of the state to provide actual
resources instead of being

02:39:13.308 --> 02:39:16.760
punitive.
>> yeah, sail two things about
that.

02:39:17.345 --> 02:39:19.613
One is, yes, the punishment is
of the parent but of the family

02:39:20.514 --> 02:39:23.416
as a whole, as MS. Akbar
stated.
If a parent can't get a job

02:39:24.552 --> 02:39:27.530
because of a record, that
impacts their children.

02:39:29.230 --> 02:39:31.225
If they feel ostracized,
stigmatized, that's going to

02:39:31.793 --> 02:39:33.793
impact their ability to care for

02:39:34.295 --> 02:39:37.164
their children.
We -- people have spoken here

02:39:37.365 --> 02:39:39.799
today who have been children in
foster care and are then parents

02:39:40.167 --> 02:39:42.167
targeted by the system.

02:39:43.270 --> 02:39:45.138
So when we say we care about
children, without having a we

02:39:45.773 --> 02:39:47.773
care about parents, not only are

02:39:47.909 --> 02:39:49.877
we talking about that family but
we're talking about young people

02:39:51.145 --> 02:39:54.140
who will become parents.
Often young parents already in
the system.

02:39:55.216 --> 02:39:58.510
So we have an obligation -- 
>> that's really helpful because

02:39:59.200 --> 02:40:01.555
I was doing that.
I'm part of that problem.
I'm only thinking about the

02:40:01.555 --> 02:40:04.590
kid.
>> and when the kid turns again,

02:40:04.590 --> 02:40:06.560
then what?
And s. A parent is someone who

02:40:07.295 --> 02:40:09.897
what is a child, an adult is
someone who was a child and

02:40:10.999 --> 02:40:13.234
didn't get the resources they
needed as a young person and

02:40:13.234 --> 02:40:15.702
aren't getting the resources
they need an an adult, and I

02:40:16.537 --> 02:40:18.938
think we need to think about -- 
we have to walk away from I

02:40:20.775 --> 02:40:22.775
think part of the racist history

02:40:22.811 --> 02:40:24.811
that MS. Akbar spoke to which is

02:40:25.447 --> 02:40:27.748
we need to save children of
color from their parents and

02:40:28.316 --> 02:40:31.118
somehow a child of color no
longer needs that support when
they're a parent.

02:40:31.586 --> 02:40:34.200
>> 100% agree.
Let me stay with the resources

02:40:34.422 --> 02:40:36.422
portion of this if I can.

02:40:36.991 --> 02:40:38.725
You guys know the la better than
I do.

02:40:40.280 --> 02:40:42.429
In neglect or maltreatment
statutes, are they the problem

02:40:42.864 --> 02:40:45.833
or am I far afield?
>> I think when we're talking

02:40:47.902 --> 02:40:49.902
about direct resources for

02:40:50.204 --> 02:40:52.773
families, to your original
question, my apologies if I'm

02:40:53.908 --> 02:40:55.908
not answering on point, when I

02:40:57.412 --> 02:41:00.181
say that's a realpetive service
I don't mean once the call is
made.

02:41:01.883 --> 02:41:03.883
>> primary prevention, before

02:41:04.520 --> 02:41:05.953
you get a call, before your
involved in the system.

02:41:06.254 --> 02:41:09.156
>> correct.
People need basic things, stable

02:41:09.891 --> 02:41:12.759
next week stable housing, access
to health care, mental health

02:41:15.300 --> 02:41:17.264
care without sig ma is is
itation in the reports that have
been mentioned.

02:41:18.660 --> 02:41:20.167
>> if I can, so it's your
perspective -- I don't want to

02:41:21.336 --> 02:41:24.238
speak for you -- so it's your
perspective that we are hurting

02:41:24.772 --> 02:41:27.207
families and quds partially for
something that the state is

02:41:27.442 --> 02:41:29.844
responsible for by not helping
with the resources, the housing,

02:41:29.844 --> 02:41:32.790
the other.
>> absolutely.

02:41:32.514 --> 02:41:35.149
We're punishing people for their
poverty, and that's poverty that

02:41:35.150 --> 02:41:37.585
the state could be addressing.
>> thank you.

02:41:37.585 --> 02:41:40.287
That's what I needed.
Thank you.
>> the second part of that I'll

02:41:41.256 --> 02:41:43.256
say is even once the system is

02:41:43.891 --> 02:41:46.260
involved in a family's life, the
reluctance to provide people

02:41:47.261 --> 02:41:49.261
what they need is astounding.

02:41:50.699 --> 02:41:52.500
So I can speak from an example
yesterday of supervising

02:41:53.668 --> 02:41:56.403
attorney working with a family.
the first thing that as a

02:41:57.372 --> 02:41:59.673
counsel we heard was an
application by acs to get an

02:42:00.441 --> 02:42:03.277
order to enter this family's
home.
They're already under acs

02:42:03.811 --> 02:42:06.120
surveillance illness, and the
reason they wanted to enter the

02:42:06.348 --> 02:42:08.348
home is there as a report, they

02:42:08.483 --> 02:42:11.520
don't know from who or why or
when -- 

02:42:11.219 --> 02:42:13.921
>> anonymous report.
>> -- that the children didn't

02:42:14.356 --> 02:42:16.490
have food in the home and for me
the response to go to court and

02:42:17.625 --> 02:42:20.494
get an order and not say I'm
going to show up at your house

02:42:21.996 --> 02:42:24.832
with food, even if you have the
food, even if the report is

02:42:25.300 --> 02:42:27.300
false, more food is not going to

02:42:27.603 --> 02:42:29.771
hurt anybody, to me that goes to
the surveillance-oriented

02:42:29.771 --> 02:42:32.440
approach of the system and I
think really goes to the

02:42:33.908 --> 02:42:36.844
question you have from MS. Akbar
which is how do we get to some

02:42:37.278 --> 02:42:39.278
of the radioed issues here, and

02:42:40.849 --> 02:42:42.849
I agree with everything -- did

02:42:42.951 --> 02:42:44.752
but I would add there is a
punishment and surveillance

02:42:45.887 --> 02:42:47.421
approach at every step of the
way, every conversation.

02:42:50.225 --> 02:42:52.259
>> a paternalistic system set up
by -- 
>> absolutely.

02:42:54.696 --> 02:42:56.897
As if a preventive service -- I
wap to be really honest.

02:42:57.980 --> 02:42:59.980
In my seven years of experience

02:42:59.134 --> 02:43:01.602
in the system, preventive
services just means someone else

02:43:01.837 --> 02:43:04.572
coming into your home twice a
month in addition to the acs

02:43:06.740 --> 02:43:08.142
worker coming in your home twice
a month and having conversations
with you.

02:43:11.120 --> 02:43:12.813
>> that is not how I envision
preventive system.

02:43:14.480 --> 02:43:16.480
>> I rarely have seen a

02:43:16.510 --> 02:43:18.620
preventive caseworker or worker
come into your house and say,

02:43:19.421 --> 02:43:21.421
this is how you can connect to

02:43:22.391 --> 02:43:24.391
you child care, to employment

02:43:24.893 --> 02:43:26.893
access, to figure out special

02:43:27.129 --> 02:43:29.863
education needs for your child
or anything of that -- not to

02:43:31.533 --> 02:43:33.834
say it doesn't exist, but it is
not status co"I.

02:43:34.360 --> 02:43:36.605
>> I agree.
That's part of the problem.

02:43:36.605 --> 02:43:38.973
I'm not being tough here but
this is the legislature's
fault.

02:43:39.174 --> 02:43:41.174
This is the governor's fault.

02:43:41.710 --> 02:43:44.412
So I understand the mechanism
that it is implementing the acs

02:43:45.981 --> 02:43:48.449
or cps's throughout the state
but I'm telling you the

02:43:49.718 --> 02:43:52.288
underfunding is an systemic,
intentional by the last

02:43:52.288 --> 02:43:54.656
administration -- we're going to
have to make up for it.

02:43:55.557 --> 02:43:58.192
But, yeah, mites an outrage.
>> the last thing I'll say to

02:43:59.394 --> 02:44:01.394
that point is when someone has

02:44:02.531 --> 02:44:05.433
access to resources, to wealth,
to stability, not only are they

02:44:06.301 --> 02:44:08.636
less susceptible to being
targeted by the system because

02:44:09.805 --> 02:44:12.106
their lives are not out in the
open tote public but because

02:44:12.241 --> 02:44:14.442
they know when someone comes to
your door to not open it.

02:44:14.710 --> 02:44:17.145
They can call a friend or an
attorney or someone they already

02:44:17.880 --> 02:44:19.180
know on how to navigate the
system.

02:44:20.782 --> 02:44:22.750
So when you talk about how can
we address some of the root

02:44:22.851 --> 02:44:25.486
issues we're talking about is
empowering a parent to know how

02:44:25.688 --> 02:44:27.989
to protect their child.
If that's what knowing your

02:44:30.526 --> 02:44:33.328
rights means and if we truly
trust parents to protect their

02:44:33.629 --> 02:44:36.197
children then we would want them
to know their rights because in

02:44:36.231 --> 02:44:38.833
that moment they're the ones
that can say you're not going to

02:44:39.801 --> 02:44:42.670
come into my home and ask these
questions and could these

02:44:43.105 --> 02:44:45.941
invasive things unless you've
proven in a court of law that
it's needed.

02:44:45.941 --> 02:44:48.900
>> okay.
That's very helpful.

02:44:49.411 --> 02:44:51.746
Just so you know, in principle I
agree, personally -- I'm not

02:44:52.414 --> 02:44:54.282
speaking for anybody else -- I
agree personal personally that

02:44:55.384 --> 02:44:57.885
we should be giving people their
rights.
There is contention about that

02:44:57.986 --> 02:45:00.388
bill about when you do it and
how you do it and we're going to

02:45:00.388 --> 02:45:02.491
work through it.
>> happy to keep talking about
it.

02:45:02.491 --> 02:45:04.192
>> we're going to keep talking
about it.

02:45:04.960 --> 02:45:07.595
By the way, when I say we're
going to keep talking about want

02:45:07.963 --> 02:45:10.565
we've got session in two
months.
We're going to start to look to

02:45:11.100 --> 02:45:13.201
move some of these bills so
these conversations happening
now.

02:45:13.602 --> 02:45:15.169
This is very helpful.
Thank you very much.

02:45:16.438 --> 02:45:18.438
>> thank you.

02:45:20.676 --> 02:45:22.644
>> chair hevesi, members of the
children and families committee

02:45:23.279 --> 02:45:25.279
and members of the assembly, my

02:45:25.481 --> 02:45:27.682
name is mir am ya mack and I'm
policy counsel 2 and a staff

02:45:28.170 --> 02:45:30.218
attorney in the family defense
practice at the bronx
defenders.

02:45:30.586 --> 02:45:33.387
Thank you for this opportunity
to testify today.

02:45:35.290 --> 02:45:37.225
First, I would like like to
start by honoring all of the

02:45:37.927 --> 02:45:39.927
parents and the family members

02:45:41.497 --> 02:45:43.365
who courageously spoke such deep
truthed to about the reality of

02:45:44.567 --> 02:45:46.501
the harm produced by the family
regulation system.

02:45:46.735 --> 02:45:49.404
I'm honored to be in this space
with you and to stand with you

02:45:50.339 --> 02:45:52.440
and in awe of your resilience
and your clarity of vision.

02:45:53.760 --> 02:45:55.760
Thank you.

02:45:55.545 --> 02:45:57.545
At the bronx defenders every day

02:45:57.546 --> 02:46:00.182
we bear witness to the
destruction and trauma that the

02:46:00.182 --> 02:46:02.751
family intervention system
causes in families and across
communities.

02:46:03.319 --> 02:46:05.319
We see the consequences of

02:46:05.354 --> 02:46:07.354
family regulation agencies that

02:46:07.890 --> 02:46:10.858
willfully ignore the structural
malignancies like racism and

02:46:11.294 --> 02:46:13.294
classism in a family's ability

02:46:13.429 --> 02:46:15.429
to exist and thrive and instead

02:46:16.465 --> 02:46:19.234
present these structural
inequalities as individual
personal failings and the

02:46:20.336 --> 02:46:22.203
solution as surveillance,
control and family separation.

02:46:22.872 --> 02:46:25.640
We see a system that is quick to
label certain things as

02:46:26.842 --> 02:46:28.842
negligent and use coercive

02:46:29.112 --> 02:46:31.112
interventions when they occur in

02:46:31.748 --> 02:46:33.748
black, lanta, low income and

02:46:35.510 --> 02:46:37.452
socially marginalized such as
recreational cannabis use but

02:46:39.755 --> 02:46:42.156
will tacitly on anything the
very same conduct in affluent

02:46:42.191 --> 02:46:45.590
white communities.
What we seed, CHAIRMAN Hevesi

02:46:45.895 --> 02:46:48.697
and members of the assembly, is
a system that functions as as it

02:46:51.100 --> 02:46:54.350
was designed to, to regulate and
criminal sides black, lanta and

02:46:55.972 --> 02:46:57.238
low income socially marginalized
families.

02:46:58.674 --> 02:47:00.508
We see the family regulation
system's punitive responses and

02:47:02.770 --> 02:47:04.746
the racist, class is I have
narratives seem into the very

02:47:05.381 --> 02:47:07.382
social services tasked with
supporting families, from

02:47:08.651 --> 02:47:10.853
hospitals and schools to public
benefit offices and holme

02:47:10.853 --> 02:47:13.880
shelters.
The family regulation system and

02:47:14.490 --> 02:47:16.490
its mentalities about black,

02:47:16.492 --> 02:47:18.626
lanta, low income and socially
marginalized people loom large.

02:47:20.620 --> 02:47:22.640
Like the family regulation
system, social service providers

02:47:23.800 --> 02:47:25.800
and other mandated reporters are

02:47:25.868 --> 02:47:27.868
quick to label certain conduct

02:47:28.704 --> 02:47:31.474
as negligent when they occur in
socially marge aol naturalized

02:47:31.474 --> 02:47:34.420
communities and respond with
grace and understanding when

02:47:35.811 --> 02:47:37.112
they occur in white affluent
communities.

02:47:37.880 --> 02:47:40.683
Put industry, it's not behaviors
are on perceived parental

02:47:41.170 --> 02:47:43.318
failings that concern the family
regulation system.
It's people.

02:47:43.720 --> 02:47:46.154
It's black parents.
It's lant a parents.

02:47:47.123 --> 02:47:49.123
It's low incomey patients and

02:47:49.358 --> 02:47:50.992
it's socially marginalized
parent.

02:47:52.395 --> 02:47:54.395
To illustrate this I want to

02:47:54.830 --> 02:47:57.600
focus on substance puse the way
pregnant and postpartum people.

02:47:58.668 --> 02:48:01.637
On the front end the family
practice has a system of pushing

02:48:02.772 --> 02:48:05.674
families into this system p we
at the broncs defenders

02:48:05.875 --> 02:48:08.443
regularly see families copt to
the attention of the family

02:48:09.212 --> 02:48:11.212
regulation authorities when

02:48:11.714 --> 02:48:14.250
prenatal and labor and delivery
providers drug test pregnant

02:48:14.518 --> 02:48:16.518
people, postpartum people and

02:48:16.586 --> 02:48:19.421
their newborns routinely without
their consent and then report

02:48:19.989 --> 02:48:21.989
the positive drug test results

02:48:22.358 --> 02:48:24.493
to the state central register,
the scr.

02:48:24.827 --> 02:48:27.562
Often there's no medical
explanation given as to test's

02:48:28.531 --> 02:48:30.532
medical necessity and on many
occasions there's no treatment

02:48:30.734 --> 02:48:32.835
provided in response to a
positive drug test.

02:48:35.138 --> 02:48:36.505
This test and report practice is
not supportive.

02:48:37.474 --> 02:48:39.474
It's a violation of pregnant and

02:48:39.475 --> 02:48:40.742
postpartum people's dignity and
autonomy.

02:48:43.413 --> 02:48:45.882
This practice is an anthony ma
to the transparency and trust

02:48:45.882 --> 02:48:47.816
critical tote patient-provide
relationship and it's more

02:48:48.352 --> 02:48:50.954
consist of with the family
regulation system which

02:48:50.954 --> 02:48:52.954
withholds information and

02:48:53.423 --> 02:48:55.792
coerces compliance.
Consist of with the racial

02:48:55.792 --> 02:48:58.527
disparities entrenched.
Family regulation system, there

02:48:59.620 --> 02:49:01.631
are extreme disparities in
hospitals test and report

02:49:01.631 --> 02:49:04.466
practices.
Low income black and lanta

02:49:06.770 --> 02:49:09.705
people and their newborns are
overlemming when I targeted for

02:49:10.240 --> 02:49:12.908
drug tests whether or not they
meet hospital's guidelines and

02:49:14.544 --> 02:49:16.544
this is all so even no black and

02:49:17.614 --> 02:49:19.514
latina pregnant people use
illicit substances at virtually

02:49:21.384 --> 02:49:22.918
the same rate as white pregnant
people.

02:49:24.421 --> 02:49:27.289
So this suggests non-consensual
drug tests are motivated by

02:49:28.592 --> 02:49:30.993
arrest zimmer, classism, ableism
and drug war ideologies rather

02:49:32.762 --> 02:49:35.130
than medical imperatives.
Despite what decades of the drug

02:49:36.933 --> 02:49:39.501
war racist media narratives
about, quote/unquote crack moms

02:49:40.604 --> 02:49:42.604
and junk science will have you

02:49:43.907 --> 02:49:45.708
believe a drug test not to a
parenting test, and I say that
again.

02:49:46.543 --> 02:49:48.210
A drug test not a parenting
test.

02:49:48.712 --> 02:49:50.712
And a positive drug test says

02:49:50.814 --> 02:49:53.282
nothing about a parent's ability
or capacity to parent their

02:49:53.683 --> 02:49:56.118
child.
Unsurprisingly, these harms that

02:49:56.953 --> 02:49:59.922
stem from a hospital's testing
report practice are mir yapped.

02:50:00.157 --> 02:50:02.157
Test and reports is a violation

02:50:03.627 --> 02:50:05.327
of the bod ri integrity of a
pregnant postpartum purn person

02:50:05.962 --> 02:50:08.731
and their newborns.
Test and report undermines

02:50:08.865 --> 02:50:11.433
maternal fetal health, and I say
this when we are the in wake of

02:50:13.269 --> 02:50:15.700
a maternal/fetal crisis in new
york that weighs most heavily on

02:50:16.940 --> 02:50:18.775
black and latina women, by
making pregnant people fearful

02:50:19.910 --> 02:50:22.279
of accessing prenatal care
because they're frayed of losing

02:50:22.279 --> 02:50:24.647
their child.
>> sorry.
Say that again?

02:50:25.782 --> 02:50:27.182
They're not going to prenatal
care?

02:50:28.284 --> 02:50:30.152
>> because they're afraid that
they're going to be you go
ology

02:50:30.353 --> 02:50:33.880
tested and report to the
family regulation system instead

02:50:33.757 --> 02:50:36.360
of being able to have trusting
relationships with their
provider and to be able to talk

02:50:36.360 --> 02:50:38.360
about that was the treatment

02:50:38.362 --> 02:50:39.929
that is best for them and for
their developing feet us.

02:50:41.164 --> 02:50:42.898
>> which is the exact opposite
of what you want to do.

02:50:43.700 --> 02:50:45.467
>> exactly.
Precisely.

02:50:46.169 --> 02:50:48.270
And finally, test and report
unnecessarily exposes new

02:50:49.390 --> 02:50:51.908
families to the risk of
traumatic family separation
which we have heard about

02:50:52.776 --> 02:50:55.780
today.
Fundamentally, if new york is

02:50:55.879 --> 02:50:57.879
serious about family safety,

02:50:59.816 --> 02:51:02.551
serious about addressing the
maternal/fetal crisis and is
serious about inspecting the

02:51:03.386 --> 02:51:05.988
rights and a ton me of all
parents and newly parenting

02:51:06.890 --> 02:51:08.890
people, new york must shift

02:51:08.592 --> 02:51:10.661
power and autonomy back to
pregnant and newly parenting

02:51:10.661 --> 02:51:13.463
people.
New york must reject a two

02:51:15.999 --> 02:51:18.267
tiered system where low income
andy flack and lanta people's

02:51:18.268 --> 02:51:20.703
rights don't matter.
Ultimately these changes whether

02:51:22.205 --> 02:51:24.205
not be made overnight and plus

02:51:25.376 --> 02:51:27.744
include a process of dissing
tangling critical social
security services providers and

02:51:27.812 --> 02:51:30.179
plings systems and that means
addressing mandated reporting.

02:51:30.981 --> 02:51:32.981
And shifting power and autonomy

02:51:34.151 --> 02:51:36.151
back to communities.

02:51:36.286 --> 02:51:38.286
One opportunity, and CHAIRMAN

02:51:38.955 --> 02:51:40.955
You reference, one under the is

02:51:41.858 --> 02:51:43.858
is if informant consent bill

02:51:43.961 --> 02:51:45.961
a425 sponsored in the assembly

02:51:46.363 --> 02:51:48.164
by assemblymember rosenthal.
Passing the informed consent

02:51:48.899 --> 02:51:51.000
bill is necessary to help end
practices that undermine the

02:51:51.702 --> 02:51:53.770
dignity and autonomy of pregnant
and parent be people who use

02:51:53.770 --> 02:51:56.305
drugs.
It is imperative that we take

02:51:58.608 --> 02:52:00.843
action now to narrow fath ways
through which families are

02:52:01.812 --> 02:52:04.247
thrust ooh into the family
regulation sem and.

02:52:04.482 --> 02:52:06.249
The informed consent will help
do that.

02:52:07.117 --> 02:52:08.518
>> MS. Mack, thank you that
much.

02:52:10.354 --> 02:52:12.688
That is a rosenthal bill.
Aimco sponsor because I believe

02:52:13.957 --> 02:52:16.725
you are absolutely rights it's
another driver of part of this
problem.

02:52:17.360 --> 02:52:19.629
The bad news is it doesn't go
through my committee, it goes

02:52:20.398 --> 02:52:22.766
into the health committee, but
anything I can go to be helpful

02:52:23.300 --> 02:52:26.690
to push that bale bus I
understand what you just said.

02:52:26.236 --> 02:52:28.805
It's a real outrage.
>> thank you.
>> thank you so much.

02:52:29.273 --> 02:52:31.374
Is there anything else before
you -- 

02:52:31.842 --> 02:52:34.477
>> I would just like to add one
thing to your question about

02:52:36.581 --> 02:52:39.182
what we can do in divestinging
acs and investing in
communities, and I understand

02:52:39.850 --> 02:52:41.850
that right now there MAY not be

02:52:42.419 --> 02:52:45.210
the appetite for that in the
legislature, you the but I think

02:52:45.823 --> 02:52:47.990
we do have a roadmap.
In wealthy communities we see

02:52:48.325 --> 02:52:50.661
what investment looks like.
We see community safety where

02:52:50.661 --> 02:52:52.862
there are good schools and
there's access to jobs and

02:52:54.198 --> 02:52:56.233
people are not criminalized wye
by things that they MAY have

02:52:56.500 --> 02:52:59.202
done in the past and get a
second chance, so I actually

02:52:59.437 --> 02:53:02.105
don't think that it's so hard
for us to imagine alternatives

02:53:03.173 --> 02:53:05.173
because we see it every day in

02:53:11.416 --> 02:53:13.483
wealthy communities in new york.
[Inaudible]
>> no, sorry.

02:53:13.684 --> 02:53:15.684
We'll get to you though.

02:53:17.121 --> 02:53:18.788
You can do it offline.
MS. Byrne, if you have burns,

02:53:19.490 --> 02:53:21.490
did you have a question?

02:53:22.359 --> 02:53:25.328
>> I do, if you would be so
kind.
I was -- maybe it's because I

02:53:27.799 --> 02:53:30.467
don't have any children -- aware
that there was any testing of

02:53:31.569 --> 02:53:33.569
going on, of drug testing for

02:53:34.338 --> 02:53:36.506
pregnant or women who have just
birthed.

02:53:36.941 --> 02:53:39.676
I'm guessing that it was
probably done so that if there

02:53:41.612 --> 02:53:44.130
was any issues, there could be
immediate intervention,

02:53:45.950 --> 02:53:48.518
especially if a child was born
with, you know, fetal alcohol

02:53:51.355 --> 02:53:53.355
syndrome or something like that,

02:53:53.724 --> 02:53:56.693
but it sounds, from what you are
saying, that it would be your

02:53:57.661 --> 02:54:00.530
preference that there be no
testing because it appears that

02:54:01.765 --> 02:54:03.765
even when there was an attempt

02:54:05.803 --> 02:54:07.803
at a color blind testing, it

02:54:08.306 --> 02:54:11.174
still seemed to
disproportionately be testing

02:54:14.378 --> 02:54:16.378
black and latino -- I'm just not

02:54:16.880 --> 02:54:19.182
quiet sure -- ultimate what the
game plan is.

02:54:19.450 --> 02:54:22.520
Obviously we want women and
babies to be healthy.
>> right.

02:54:22.860 --> 02:54:24.860
Of course.

02:54:26.290 --> 02:54:28.758
>> and be it alcohol or illegal
drugs can have an effect that

02:54:30.227 --> 02:54:32.227
could potentially be important

02:54:32.329 --> 02:54:34.329
to know, you know, especially if

02:54:36.400 --> 02:54:38.400
a child needs to go into special

02:54:38.937 --> 02:54:41.271
education because of any
disabilities which result, but

02:54:42.206 --> 02:54:44.206
I'm just curious, again,

02:54:44.208 --> 02:54:46.208
obviously we don't want anything

02:54:46.477 --> 02:54:49.446
that is race-based, don't get me
wrong, but I'm just wondering

02:54:51.449 --> 02:54:53.449
generally do you see any use or

02:54:53.984 --> 02:54:55.984
benefit, if it was -- or could

02:54:57.188 --> 02:54:59.188
be done in an appropriate way to

02:54:59.390 --> 02:55:01.390
do the testing to see if a

02:55:02.693 --> 02:55:05.280
newborn had alcohol or illegal
drugs in their system?

02:55:05.429 --> 02:55:07.429
>> right.

02:55:08.799 --> 02:55:11.401
So I think that that's a complex
question.
I think that it is a question -- 

02:55:12.236 --> 02:55:14.236
first I want to start off with a

02:55:14.839 --> 02:55:16.106
drug test is a very limited
tool.

02:55:16.975 --> 02:55:19.109
A drug test just shows the
presence of certain drug

02:55:19.744 --> 02:55:22.179
metabolites in a person's body
it.
Doesn't say with that their

02:55:22.180 --> 02:55:24.748
relationship is to substance
use, it doesn't say when they

02:55:26.150 --> 02:55:29.520
used, how they used, with whom
they used, for how long they

02:55:29.386 --> 02:55:31.722
used, and I think when we raise
the question of maternal and

02:55:32.324 --> 02:55:34.892
fetal health, of the health of
mom and babies, the most

02:55:36.294 --> 02:55:38.294
important thing is making sure

02:55:39.497 --> 02:55:42.465
that pregnant people and
parents, you know, when they

02:55:43.100 --> 02:55:45.735
care for their children, feel
comfortable accessing health
care.

02:55:46.303 --> 02:55:48.303
And that means prenatal care,

02:55:48.740 --> 02:55:51.709
and that means postnatal care as
well.
And when pregnant people can't

02:55:51.810 --> 02:55:54.711
trust their providers because
they know that if I go to the

02:55:55.880 --> 02:55:58.415
hospital, you MAY drug test me,
you're not going to tell me and

02:55:59.830 --> 02:56:01.351
then you're going to report me,
and then when you report me I'm

02:56:01.719 --> 02:56:03.720
going to be separated from my
child, and when we talk about

02:56:04.355 --> 02:56:06.355
the health of children, we also

02:56:06.691 --> 02:56:09.294
have to consider, as you noted,
there are some experiences of

02:56:09.294 --> 02:56:10.619
children can experience
withdrawal.

02:56:14.465 --> 02:56:17.334
We know neonatal abstinence
syndrome.
Put what medical evidence is

02:56:17.869 --> 02:56:19.836
suggesting is that the best care
for children who are

02:56:21.439 --> 02:56:24.108
experiencing neonatal abstinence
strom for them to remain with

02:56:25.430 --> 02:56:27.912
their parents, is for them to be
cared for and remain in close

02:56:28.413 --> 02:56:30.413
contact with their families.

02:56:31.249 --> 02:56:32.483
When a family is end meshed in
the.

02:56:33.284 --> 02:56:35.485
Family -- the first thing is
removal and separation.

02:56:35.920 --> 02:56:37.920
I think when we talk about, if

02:56:37.922 --> 02:56:39.823
you ask me do I think is a drug
tool ever appropriate.

02:56:40.659 --> 02:56:42.659
I'm not a medical provider so I

02:56:42.761 --> 02:56:45.596
can't answer if a drug test is
ever medically necessary under

02:56:46.264 --> 02:56:49.330
certain circumstances, but what
I can stay is if we are

02:56:51.135 --> 02:56:53.737
prioritizing the health of mamas
and babies what we should be

02:56:57.108 --> 02:56:59.108
focused on is how do we get

02:56:59.978 --> 02:57:01.846
folks connected to care and get
people being honest with

02:57:02.247 --> 02:57:04.281
providers and sharing whatever
issues that's going on in their

02:57:04.816 --> 02:57:07.151
lives and then they can be
connected to whatever supports

02:57:07.886 --> 02:57:09.653
they need and not have to worry
about is this going to be

02:57:11.322 --> 02:57:13.322
reported to my caseworker?

02:57:13.424 --> 02:57:15.425
Is a judge going to be making a
decision if I do not think this

02:57:15.861 --> 02:57:17.861
is the right fram for me?

02:57:17.930 --> 02:57:19.997
Am I going to lose my job if I
go to this program?

02:57:20.298 --> 02:57:23.200
I think it's imagining a world
that is far beyond a drug test

02:57:24.669 --> 02:57:27.172
and really is looking at how do
we get people access to the
services and to the health care

02:57:27.172 --> 02:57:28.639
that they need.
>> thank you.

02:57:29.173 --> 02:57:31.508
>> thank you.
>> we can clap for that.

02:57:32.310 --> 02:57:34.345
That was a great answer.
You guys thought you were going

02:57:34.646 --> 02:57:36.714
to get away so quick.
One last one.

02:57:36.882 --> 02:57:39.117
So I've heard the testimony and
I appreciate it and the

02:57:39.117 --> 02:57:41.418
recommendations with the
legislation and there will be a

02:57:41.620 --> 02:57:43.620
funding push that we will

02:57:43.822 --> 02:57:46.490
include you in at some point,
but we are -- all of you have

02:57:46.691 --> 02:57:48.691
mentioned to one degree or

02:57:49.727 --> 02:57:52.130
another the mandated reporting
system.
Are you recommending that we do

02:57:52.998 --> 02:57:55.100
something about that system
besides the legislation?

02:57:55.100 --> 02:57:57.702
I'm giving you the opportunity.
I just want to see if you take

02:57:57.969 --> 02:58:00.710
it.
Or are you loudly allowed to

02:58:00.710 --> 02:58:02.710
take it?

02:58:02.674 --> 02:58:04.508
>> I think a resounding yes.
>> all of you.

02:58:06.770 --> 02:58:08.414
Each of these three legal groups
believe mandated reporting
system has to go away.

02:58:08.414 --> 02:58:09.647
>> yes.
>> yes.

02:58:13.118 --> 02:58:15.586
>> than the ca be can't be
redeemed.
I do appreciate it.

02:58:16.254 --> 02:58:19.230
Thank you for clarifying.
Thank you very much for your
testimony.

02:58:20.191 --> 02:58:21.725
[Applause]
>> okay.

02:58:23.270 --> 02:58:25.864
So I made a really big mistake
earlier but it's to everybody's
benefit

02:58:25.864 --> 02:58:27.699
don't be freaked out.
It's okay.

02:58:28.267 --> 02:58:30.340
when my staff and I were talking
about yesterday about it's going

02:58:31.370 --> 02:58:33.370
to be a long hearing, we've got

02:58:33.538 --> 02:58:36.474
to get some food, they got food
for us.
They thought I meant get food

02:58:37.776 --> 02:58:39.776
for everybody, so in the room

02:58:40.278 --> 02:58:43.460
outside and over alexa can point
you, there's food and water for

02:58:43.682 --> 02:58:45.450
everybody because this is a long
hearing.
Okay?

02:58:46.719 --> 02:58:48.719
So I was unintentionally nice

02:58:49.187 --> 02:58:51.222
but I want credit.
[Applause]
>> no worries.

02:58:51.690 --> 02:58:54.910
I didn't mean to do it.
Just kidding.

02:58:56.728 --> 02:58:58.728
The next panel if we can,

02:59:00.666 --> 02:59:02.600
jasmine walking pathsi and
MS. Em uhl.

02:59:03.469 --> 02:59:04.669
I don't want to mess up your
name.

02:59:09.410 --> 02:59:11.709
Please come on up.
Yeah, we've got sandwiches, so

02:59:12.110 --> 02:59:14.779
please.
Good afternoon.
>> good afternoon.

02:59:15.480 --> 02:59:18.117
>> thank you for taking this
on.
I appreciate it.

02:59:18.117 --> 02:59:20.117
>> thanks for having us.

02:59:20.853 --> 02:59:22.853
>> so, please, MS. Walking

02:59:23.155 --> 02:59:25.155
pathsi.

02:59:27.426 --> 02:59:29.426
>> kwali.

02:59:30.562 --> 02:59:32.396
I wrote something but I'm
changing it.

02:59:33.980 --> 02:59:35.265
Thank you for the space to share
my testimony with you all.

02:59:36.369 --> 02:59:39.204
My name is jasmine wali.
I am the director of parent

02:59:40.720 --> 02:59:42.707
advocacy and legislative
priorities at jmac for
families.

02:59:43.575 --> 02:59:45.575
Existing efforts to reform the

02:59:45.878 --> 02:59:48.813
child welfare system not
enough.
To reduce racial disparities in

02:59:49.614 --> 02:59:52.351
the child welfare system, the
ways that families enter

02:59:52.351 --> 02:59:54.953
surveillance of the
administration for children

02:59:55.121 --> 02:59:57.388
services or acs must also
change.

02:59:58.557 --> 03:00:00.557
We must end malicious reporting

03:00:01.894 --> 03:00:04.429
and harassment through anonymous
by instituting a policy of

03:00:04.429 --> 03:00:07.265
confidential reportings.
We must also inform parents of

03:00:07.599 --> 03:00:10.167
their miranda rights at the
point of contact.

03:00:11.300 --> 03:00:13.300
But I would really like to

03:00:14.607 --> 03:00:17.575
expand more on the previous
conversation.
The family first prevention

03:00:19.745 --> 03:00:21.745
services act of 2018 also known

03:00:21.947 --> 03:00:23.947
as family first is celebrated as

03:00:25.317 --> 03:00:26.517
of the child welfare system by
some.

03:00:27.987 --> 03:00:29.987
Making notable reforms to child

03:00:31.590 --> 03:00:34.920
welfare financing by giving
space the ability to receive

03:00:36.950 --> 03:00:38.796
federal title 4e funds.
However to parents that I work

03:00:40.199 --> 03:00:42.300
with at jmac for families, these
preventive services are yet

03:00:43.635 --> 03:00:45.635
another form of survey lance

03:00:45.638 --> 03:00:48.106
funded by a system that has
caused the painful separation of

03:00:49.141 --> 03:00:51.343
their families.
New york state's office of

03:00:53.120 --> 03:00:55.120
children and family services or

03:00:55.915 --> 03:00:57.915
ocfs is tasked with overseeing

03:00:58.217 --> 03:01:01.152
and dispersing family first
funding.
All social service providers

03:01:03.890 --> 03:01:05.890
with who work at ocfs and at

03:01:05.910 --> 03:01:07.910
nonprofits that receive funding

03:01:08.594 --> 03:01:11.960
by ocfs are mandated reporters.
Implicit bias in the reporting

03:01:11.764 --> 03:01:13.764
process is no secret.

03:01:14.900 --> 03:01:16.968
I believe the wd commissioner
mentioned it.

03:01:18.700 --> 03:01:20.504
The federal and new york
government have each developed

03:01:21.107 --> 03:01:23.107
resources and training sessions

03:01:25.978 --> 03:01:27.978
aimed at reducing impriesity

03:01:28.114 --> 03:01:30.449
biases among social service
provider, implicit buy eases are

03:01:30.449 --> 03:01:32.450
not learned in one day,
similarly they cannot be

03:01:34.420 --> 03:01:36.420
unlearned in one day or over over the

03:01:36.488 --> 03:01:38.488
course of several trainings

03:01:38.558 --> 03:01:40.659
notable roles who serve as
mandated reporters include

03:01:40.793 --> 03:01:42.793
licensed therapists, mental

03:01:43.960 --> 03:01:45.960
health professionals at ocfs

03:01:45.131 --> 03:01:47.131
funded organizations, substance

03:01:48.934 --> 03:01:51.703
abuse and alcoholism counselors,
employees of publicly funded

03:01:53.272 --> 03:01:55.272
emergency shelters for families

03:01:56.142 --> 03:01:58.410
with children.
>> homeless shelters.

03:01:58.645 --> 03:02:00.345
>> publicly funded emergency
shelters.

03:02:01.314 --> 03:02:03.314
>> the entire -- entire

03:02:03.449 --> 03:02:05.985
workforce of the shelter system
by is huge.
>> yes.

03:02:06.485 --> 03:02:08.485
>> and some employees who

03:02:08.587 --> 03:02:10.587
provide home and community-based

03:02:11.490 --> 03:02:13.490
services, I believe under social

03:02:18.231 --> 03:02:20.999
security section 1115.
Certain programs under that
session.

03:02:21.734 --> 03:02:23.734
For families in poverty, the

03:02:23.803 --> 03:02:25.803
amount of surveillance in places

03:02:26.772 --> 03:02:28.772
like their current residences or

03:02:28.941 --> 03:02:30.941
community-based health services

03:02:31.111 --> 03:02:33.946
has already increased beyond
other families.

03:02:34.781 --> 03:02:36.781
Parents experiencing hardships

03:02:37.283 --> 03:02:39.851
like domestic violence or
substance abuse know that these

03:02:41.220 --> 03:02:44.550
preventive services funded by
family first are mandated to

03:02:44.623 --> 03:02:46.623
report under vague definitions

03:02:47.160 --> 03:02:49.160
of child abuse or neglect.

03:02:50.563 --> 03:02:52.898
>> I'm sorry, report to acs.
>> report to acs.

03:02:53.266 --> 03:02:55.668
Parents at jarks Macfor
families who have

03:02:55.668 --> 03:02:58.403
previously -- jmac for families
who have prefl been investigated

03:02:59.305 --> 03:03:01.806
by acs are particularly wary of
these preventive services.

03:03:02.808 --> 03:03:05.276
Parn was come to jmac for
families peel that rather than

03:03:06.212 --> 03:03:08.213
being there to support a family
preventive services are there

03:03:10.149 --> 03:03:12.149
now to sur vail their family and

03:03:12.352 --> 03:03:14.352
build a case against them for

03:03:15.880 --> 03:03:17.656
acs, parents that I speak to
many mothers in situations who

03:03:18.357 --> 03:03:21.292
have been previously impacted by
the child welfare system share

03:03:22.496 --> 03:03:24.363
this sentiments that, and I
quote, I would rather just take

03:03:25.799 --> 03:03:28.500
the beating than to have acs
knock at my door.

03:03:29.302 --> 03:03:31.302
The trauma that these women have

03:03:31.437 --> 03:03:34.600
endured from acs separating
their family and the fight that

03:03:35.308 --> 03:03:38.430
it took to get their children
back to them outweighs the

03:03:39.980 --> 03:03:41.180
trauma that they MAY endure at
home.

03:03:46.186 --> 03:03:48.120
And I notice that the ocfs
recently implemented a safe and

03:03:49.322 --> 03:03:51.322
together model to address

03:03:52.358 --> 03:03:53.625
domestic violence in child
welfare.

03:03:55.270 --> 03:03:57.270
I looked through the model.

03:03:57.764 --> 03:04:00.650
It focuses mostly on wasted
d -- ways to document a case,

03:04:01.835 --> 03:04:03.669
ways to have quote unquote
trauma informed care.

03:04:06.105 --> 03:04:08.105
It is still perpetuating the

03:04:09.842 --> 03:04:12.711
cycle of mandated reporting and
funded by family first, right,

03:04:13.913 --> 03:04:16.682
so there is still mandated to
report.
>> okay, let me ask you a

03:04:19.352 --> 03:04:21.352
question, so the family first

03:04:21.621 --> 03:04:24.556
money, this is for any of the
experts as well, does it have to

03:04:26.693 --> 03:04:27.993
flow through the acs system,
why?

03:04:32.132 --> 03:04:34.834
I never -- it is given to ocfs to
disperse to programs or.

03:04:36.770 --> 03:04:39.538
>> and ocfs makes the decision
to send it to the local

03:04:40.707 --> 03:04:42.641
including acfs, right?
>> yes.
>> okay.

03:04:43.576 --> 03:04:46.278
>> but I'm sorry, I just wanted
to be clear, the federal
government is not requiring that

03:04:47.130 --> 03:04:49.681
we go through and use these
systems to provide preventive

03:04:51.510 --> 03:04:53.420
system, that is just a choice by
new york state.
>> I will have to get back to

03:04:53.420 --> 03:04:56.550
you on that.
>> thank you, please do.

03:04:57.457 --> 03:05:00.920
>> additionally the focus on he
present viv -- preventive
services and kin kal

03:05:00.293 --> 03:05:02.895
interventions fails to
acknowledge the role that

03:05:04.397 --> 03:05:06.732
poverty plays on child welfare
intervention.
Clinical interventions will not

03:05:07.835 --> 03:05:10.690
be fully effective without
resources to lessen poverty.

03:05:10.237 --> 03:05:12.237
The funding model does not

03:05:12.539 --> 03:05:15.341
tackle the largest er challenge
of preventing family disruption

03:05:15.475 --> 03:05:17.576
caused by poverty.
The links between poverty

03:05:18.478 --> 03:05:20.646
reporting and family
reunification are clear.

03:05:21.114 --> 03:05:23.315
I don't think I really need to
get into that because I think we

03:05:26.220 --> 03:05:29.560
have covered it already.
Family first real

03:05:29.560 --> 03:05:31.560
kaition -- reallocation to title

03:05:31.224 --> 03:05:33.659
4e funding to evidence placed
clinical intervention as

03:05:33.860 --> 03:05:35.860
prevention does not account for

03:05:36.730 --> 03:05:38.730
the realities of poverty and

03:05:39.199 --> 03:05:41.199
underpaid inflexible jobs.

03:05:41.334 --> 03:05:43.436
Employed parents navigating the
child welfare system have a

03:05:44.505 --> 03:05:46.505
number of only daitions to meet

03:05:46.940 --> 03:05:49.209
including mandated services,
court appearances and

03:05:49.209 --> 03:05:52.780
visitations.
That are typically scheduled

03:05:52.112 --> 03:05:54.112
during the workday.

03:05:54.147 --> 03:05:56.810
Missing these child welfare
appointments even for work can

03:05:57.160 --> 03:05:58.417
count as a strike or leave a bad
impression.

03:05:59.453 --> 03:06:00.787
And hurt chances of
reunification.

03:06:02.220 --> 03:06:03.289
>> or you lose yr job.
>> right.

03:06:04.391 --> 03:06:06.692
Rather than provide concrete
support, preventive services

03:06:07.527 --> 03:06:09.929
create an environment of
increased tasks, appointments

03:06:10.830 --> 03:06:12.830
and constant surveillance.

03:06:13.533 --> 03:06:16.102
It is hard for a parent to keep
a job and have an open child

03:06:16.102 --> 03:06:18.102
welfare case.

03:06:18.372 --> 03:06:20.372
In fact several parents today

03:06:20.974 --> 03:06:22.974
from jmac for families that I

03:06:23.760 --> 03:06:25.760
work with at jmac for families

03:06:25.512 --> 03:06:28.315
have experienced losing housing
and or employment after acs

03:06:28.315 --> 03:06:30.315
separated their families.

03:06:30.550 --> 03:06:33.352
This makes it even harder for
families to reunify.

03:06:33.653 --> 03:06:36.489
A parent I recently spoke to
summed it up very eloquently.

03:06:37.324 --> 03:06:40.259
If you don't live it, if this is
not your life, you don't

03:06:41.462 --> 03:06:43.462
understand how these mandates

03:06:43.797 --> 03:06:45.998
and laws look in action.
The realities of family first

03:06:46.366 --> 03:06:48.366
can feel like an added

03:06:48.368 --> 03:06:50.368
surveillance by a system that

03:06:50.971 --> 03:06:52.971
per pet -- perpetuates a culture

03:06:53.700 --> 03:06:54.574
of overreporting, not
oversupporting.

03:06:56.777 --> 03:06:58.777
And continue a cycle of poverty

03:06:58.779 --> 03:07:00.779
and family separation.

03:07:01.281 --> 03:07:03.449
I kind of want to get into a
couple, or I have one more point

03:07:04.251 --> 03:07:06.251
to make on that note.

03:07:06.620 --> 03:07:09.388
A very few of the interventions
rated as evidence-based by the

03:07:10.491 --> 03:07:12.959
title 4e prevention services
clearing house have been

03:07:13.930 --> 03:07:15.528
demonstrated to be effective
with black and indigenous

03:07:15.663 --> 03:07:17.865
populations which are
overrepresented in the child we

03:07:17.865 --> 03:07:20.990
are fair system.
>> so the money that family

03:07:20.367 --> 03:07:22.568
firsts can be used for really
doesn't help the communities

03:07:23.570 --> 03:07:25.570
that we need them to help?

03:07:27.108 --> 03:07:29.643
>> so the -- so there is
evidence-based models in, that

03:07:29.977 --> 03:07:32.946
are in the prevention clearing
house.
>> you have to be
evidence-based.

03:07:33.514 --> 03:07:36.382
>> you have to be
evidence-based, yeah.

03:07:37.518 --> 03:07:39.685
>> and and there's very few that
have been demonstrated to be

03:07:40.587 --> 03:07:42.288
effective with black and
indigenous populations.

03:07:43.423 --> 03:07:45.423
>> can I come in, because we're

03:07:48.496 --> 03:07:51.197
on the same wavelength.
So let me start here, there will

03:07:51.498 --> 03:07:53.900
again be a push for more
funding.
But this is didding to have to

03:07:54.868 --> 03:07:57.103
be something that is considered
by your organization and some of

03:07:58.171 --> 03:08:00.573
our parents and friends here the
only way that I can, that we

03:08:01.575 --> 03:08:04.440
believe we can get it done is to
do a mass infusion of money into

03:08:05.312 --> 03:08:07.312
the system that captured both

03:08:07.548 --> 03:08:09.548
programs, sorry, that are run by

03:08:11.285 --> 03:08:13.285
acs and then new that are not,

03:08:14.521 --> 03:08:16.656
that is all I can
differ -- deliver.
I don't want anybody to think

03:08:18.191 --> 03:08:20.159
that I can take acs -- it's not a
possibility.
It is a reality.

03:08:22.697 --> 03:08:24.697
So I understand the negative of

03:08:25.433 --> 03:08:27.600
the acs system, I am clear and
listening.
I want to be clear on the

03:08:29.203 --> 03:08:31.537
record, I I don't think I would
be successful if I tried to

03:08:31.538 --> 03:08:33.538
drive money out of the acs

03:08:34.374 --> 03:08:36.576
system, I done think I would be
successful even if I wanted to,

03:08:37.612 --> 03:08:39.612
but new money that flows through

03:08:39.981 --> 03:08:41.981
a new mechanism into communities

03:08:42.483 --> 03:08:45.180
for primary provengs, we're all
over.
>> I would like to go on the

03:08:45.152 --> 03:08:47.153
record and say my opinion as
well.

03:08:47.187 --> 03:08:49.422
>> please, this is about your
opinion, I'm just giving mine.

03:08:49.590 --> 03:08:51.291
>> I appreciate the dialogue.
>> that's okay.

03:08:52.159 --> 03:08:53.893
Maybe I don't have to talk to
nie therapist this week.

03:08:59.734 --> 03:09:01.734
Thank you.

03:09:04.305 --> 03:09:06.806
>> but to continue, relying on
exclusively funding existing

03:09:06.841 --> 03:09:08.841
evidence-based interventions

03:09:09.276 --> 03:09:11.276
without adequately testing their

03:09:12.396 --> 03:09:14.114
liability to minority
populations MAY actually end up

03:09:14.515 --> 03:09:16.515
perpetuating racial disparities.

03:09:18.452 --> 03:09:21.387
To conclude on my piece about
the family first act, every

03:09:22.323 --> 03:09:24.390
lawmaker must contend with the
underlying assumptions that a

03:09:24.491 --> 03:09:26.626
policy makes.
The family first act operates

03:09:27.194 --> 03:09:29.194
with the underlying assumption

03:09:29.297 --> 03:09:31.899
that parents must be fixed.
That they are bad parents who

03:09:34.602 --> 03:09:36.971
can learn to be better through
parenting classes or through

03:09:36.971 --> 03:09:39.372
therapy, this policy assumes
that pacialts in poverty need to

03:09:40.608 --> 03:09:42.742
change their behavior, not that
communities and families need to

03:09:44.511 --> 03:09:46.511
be funded and invested in.

03:09:46.748 --> 03:09:49.249
The family first act perpetuates
the assumption that parents in

03:09:51.605 --> 03:09:54.200
poverty are automatically guilty
and have to prove their yins to

03:09:54.255 --> 03:09:56.255
keep their families together.

03:09:57.158 --> 03:10:00.260
And now I am, this is all
unwritten so I am kind of going

03:10:00.261 --> 03:10:01.628
to move on to the solutions
piece.

03:10:02.329 --> 03:10:05.199
>> before you do, this will be a
long hearing, I have to keep

03:10:05.900 --> 03:10:08.360
going, but families first,
specifically, so what is the

03:10:08.360 --> 03:10:10.537
recommendation?
That is hundreds of millions of

03:10:10.638 --> 03:10:12.305
dollars drawn down from the
federal government that could be

03:10:13.741 --> 03:10:15.741
going to prevention services.

03:10:15.776 --> 03:10:17.677
Are you saying we shouldn't try
to go after that money?

03:10:18.379 --> 03:10:21.314
I thought that money was a great
thing.
And remember the primary goal,

03:10:23.585 --> 03:10:25.585
get kids out of congregate care.

03:10:26.254 --> 03:10:28.254
>> so well I think that there

03:10:28.489 --> 03:10:30.489
is, you know, I'm not a lawmaker

03:10:31.920 --> 03:10:33.693
so I don't know how that process
would go.

03:10:36.764 --> 03:10:39.566
But I would like to share some
things that have been studied

03:10:39.768 --> 03:10:41.835
and proven.
>> please.

03:10:42.804 --> 03:10:44.804
>> so the concept of a universal

03:10:45.773 --> 03:10:47.400
child allowance is gaining
traction.

03:10:48.576 --> 03:10:50.576
Among many antipoverty advocates

03:10:50.678 --> 03:10:51.978
as a way to reduce child
poverty.

03:10:53.514 --> 03:10:55.514
And income instability.

03:10:57.185 --> 03:10:59.587
One plan proposed by a number of
antipoverty researchers suggests

03:10:59.788 --> 03:11:01.788
converting the child tax credit

03:11:02.157 --> 03:11:04.658
and child tax exemption into a
universal monthly child

03:11:05.460 --> 03:11:08.280
allowance of 250 dollars per
child per month.

03:11:09.497 --> 03:11:12.465
A universal child allowance has
a potential to improve health

03:11:12.900 --> 03:11:15.700
outcomes among families
experiencing significant

03:11:15.700 --> 03:11:17.700
hardships.

03:11:17.606 --> 03:11:20.107
One of the oversites of the eitc
and child tax credit is that

03:11:22.443 --> 03:11:24.745
children whose parents MAY be
disconnect, unable to maintain

03:11:26.470 --> 03:11:28.810
regular work or struggle with
income instability MAY fall

03:11:28.783 --> 03:11:30.783
through the cracks.

03:11:34.756 --> 03:11:36.924
The ctc and child -- tax
exemption are also not designed

03:11:37.192 --> 03:11:39.193
to meet emergency needs of
families with children.

03:11:40.828 --> 03:11:43.960
A universal monthly child
allowance designed to complement

03:11:44.399 --> 03:11:46.399
the eitc would provide an income

03:11:47.668 --> 03:11:48.935
floor for all families with
children.

03:11:50.238 --> 03:11:52.238
And a recent study by columbia

03:11:55.677 --> 03:11:57.677
university from AUGUST 2nd

03:11:59.113 --> 03:12:01.113
actually found that converting a

03:12:01.249 --> 03:12:04.170
child tax credit to a child
allowance will cost about 100

03:12:04.585 --> 03:12:06.585
billion dollars but generate

03:12:07.422 --> 03:12:09.156
about 800 billion in benefits to
society.

03:12:09.991 --> 03:12:11.991
Specific to new york, the empire

03:12:12.930 --> 03:12:14.930
state tax credit in new york

03:12:14.429 --> 03:12:16.429
city and new york state and

03:12:17.332 --> 03:12:20.200
expanding that to 1,000 per
child for all children in new

03:12:21.536 --> 03:12:23.670
york state under 17 with the
exception of very high income

03:12:24.473 --> 03:12:26.473
families or high income families

03:12:27.409 --> 03:12:29.409
would cost about 2.7 billion and

03:12:30.780 --> 03:12:32.780
generate about 26.2 billion in
benefits to society.

03:12:33.648 --> 03:12:35.648
And new york city alone, it

03:12:36.117 --> 03:12:38.117
would cost about 1.1 billion and

03:12:40.388 --> 03:12:42.388
generate about 9.8 billion.

03:12:43.158 --> 03:12:45.660
>> then I would like to let.
>> please.
>> yeah.

03:12:45.894 --> 03:12:47.928
So here is my thought about the
child tack credit.

03:12:49.331 --> 03:12:51.799
First thank you to my federal
partners for passing and

03:12:52.567 --> 03:12:54.567
starting, the most robust child

03:12:54.569 --> 03:12:56.300
tax credit in the history of the
united states.

03:12:56.704 --> 03:12:58.372
Thank you to all of our federal
partners for that.

03:13:00.242 --> 03:13:02.242
I do want to mention we have a

03:13:04.413 --> 03:13:06.847
bill that would add to the
federal child tax credit to

03:13:06.915 --> 03:13:08.915
catch all the people they didn't

03:13:09.840 --> 03:13:11.840
gettings including the kids 0 to

03:13:11.653 --> 03:13:13.821
4 and then all of the kids of
undocumented families who we

03:13:14.622 --> 03:13:16.622
just left off.

03:13:17.526 --> 03:13:19.828
But we should talk more about
your idea at some point in the

03:13:19.828 --> 03:13:22.330
future.
>> I would love to.
>> thank you very much.

03:13:29.304 --> 03:13:31.304
Thank you for being so patient.

03:13:32.941 --> 03:13:35.843
, MISS Em ul, good afternoon, on
behalf of the -- I would first

03:13:38.547 --> 03:13:41.415
want to start off with our
tradition of family prayers and

03:13:42.251 --> 03:13:45.152
listening to the sadness, hurt,
pain, trauma and drama I would

03:13:47.880 --> 03:13:49.790
like to say that in moving
forward jeremiah 29 and 1 1-rbg

03:13:50.358 --> 03:13:53.161
I de cree and declare for I know
the plans I have to you to

03:13:55.970 --> 03:13:57.231
cleanse the lord, plans for
prosper you and not to harm you.

03:13:57.432 --> 03:13:59.667
plans it to give you a hope and
a future.

03:14:00.235 --> 03:14:02.235
Those are the only words that I

03:14:02.504 --> 03:14:04.504
can stand on when cps stripped

03:14:07.642 --> 03:14:09.642
me of pie dignity.

03:14:13.849 --> 03:14:15.849
Who is the jag sar em you

03:14:17.586 --> 03:14:19.586
will -- em ul family, my name is

03:14:19.821 --> 03:14:21.821
MRS. Jusin ta jag sar-emul,

03:14:24.559 --> 03:14:26.559
mommy and these are my babies.

03:14:28.464 --> 03:14:30.598
First generation kumulade
undergraduate with double

03:14:31.800 --> 03:14:33.800
degrees in business management,

03:14:33.802 --> 03:14:36.204
sociology and information
technology.

03:14:36.672 --> 03:14:39.373
United states academic honor
roll student, national society

03:14:41.743 --> 03:14:43.743
of black engineers and enrolled

03:14:44.647 --> 03:14:46.647
professional alumnus.

03:14:48.150 --> 03:14:50.351
Fortune 100 global program
manager, six significant ma

03:14:52.788 --> 03:14:54.788
consult an, jp for jm more van

03:14:56.124 --> 03:14:58.659
chase, vp of strategy for vp
cash roll and global system

03:15:00.195 --> 03:15:02.697
analysts with general electric
under the direct teut ladge of

03:15:05.670 --> 03:15:07.502
the greet ceo jack welch.
When I was afforded the

03:15:07.670 --> 03:15:09.670
opportunities to live throughout

03:15:10.205 --> 03:15:12.205
the united states of america,

03:15:13.642 --> 03:15:16.610
mexico, brazil and amsterdam.
Coming from humble beginnings,

03:15:17.679 --> 03:15:20.810
the murder capitol of
brownsville, brooklyn, new york

03:15:21.117 --> 03:15:23.117
city housing authority.

03:15:25.120 --> 03:15:27.120
And which now cps refers to me

03:15:30.192 --> 03:15:32.126
as intellectually
developmentally, disabled.

03:15:35.564 --> 03:15:37.564
Mentally ill, bipolar.

03:15:38.868 --> 03:15:40.868
Angry, crazy, black mother who

03:15:42.571 --> 03:15:44.571
is in need of medication.

03:15:47.242 --> 03:15:49.242
I was diagnosed, assessed and

03:15:49.878 --> 03:15:51.878
treated, not by an mrk d, but by

03:15:54.283 --> 03:15:56.283
a social worker with a high

03:15:56.352 --> 03:15:58.352
school diploma who makes just as

03:15:59.789 --> 03:16:01.560
much as the assistant district
attorney.

03:16:03.250 --> 03:16:05.250
I was told that if I do not quit

03:16:05.594 --> 03:16:07.594
my job, which I was at the time

03:16:08.960 --> 03:16:10.960
had my first generation

03:16:10.299 --> 03:16:12.299
family-owned business earning

03:16:12.635 --> 03:16:14.635
$200,000 aye year, that I would

03:16:15.104 --> 03:16:17.104
show that I am not committed to

03:16:17.807 --> 03:16:20.175
my family while this same cps
case worker workedded overtime

03:16:22.440 --> 03:16:24.440
to take care of hers.

03:16:25.470 --> 03:16:27.515
I was threatened, as well as my
children, that if my children

03:16:28.650 --> 03:16:31.190
came back to me they were into
the foster care home it is

03:16:31.320 --> 03:16:33.320
through the grace of GOD that

03:16:33.322 --> 03:16:35.322
when they banged on my door and

03:16:38.627 --> 03:16:40.627
I didn't call the 757, my

03:16:42.197 --> 03:16:44.197
called 911.

03:16:44.967 --> 03:16:46.967
Protect my children from the

03:16:47.670 --> 03:16:49.670
dishonesty, the disgraced of

03:16:50.390 --> 03:16:52.390
these criminals that are here to

03:16:53.809 --> 03:16:55.809
steal my children.

03:16:57.246 --> 03:16:59.246
With that, I am going to not go

03:16:59.415 --> 03:17:01.883
by my script, but by what I
heard to today.

03:17:02.217 --> 03:17:04.217
Parents that are impacted are

03:17:05.210 --> 03:17:07.623
not just only impoverished but
we face domestic violence.

03:17:10.226 --> 03:17:12.226
We face housing, education,

03:17:12.795 --> 03:17:14.290
employment and mental health
crises.

03:17:17.800 --> 03:17:20.101
That the agency taunts,
misutilized and falsely reports

03:17:20.102 --> 03:17:22.805
in court.
Cps does not operate alone.

03:17:24.340 --> 03:17:26.340
They work hand-in-hand with the

03:17:26.676 --> 03:17:28.676
family court legal system where

03:17:30.780 --> 03:17:32.780
I was silenced as an invisible

03:17:33.115 --> 03:17:35.115
child, a wallflower and all of

03:17:37.119 --> 03:17:39.119
my witnesses suppressed while I

03:17:39.289 --> 03:17:41.289
attended 75 court hearings and

03:17:43.459 --> 03:17:46.280
was made fun of facetiously and
witnessed malicious prosecution

03:17:46.963 --> 03:17:48.963
and unprofessional conduct that

03:17:51.534 --> 03:17:53.835
would never be acceptable in any
organization but under the state

03:17:55.400 --> 03:17:56.538
of child welfare family policing
system.

03:18:00.376 --> 03:18:02.376
It is truly -- where there is

03:18:02.412 --> 03:18:05.113
zero accountability, zero
transparency and zero
enforcement.

03:18:06.149 --> 03:18:08.149
So I am here because those

03:18:09.180 --> 03:18:11.180
people who almost caused my

03:18:11.921 --> 03:18:14.422
father, a former new york city
sergeant police officer to have

03:18:18.294 --> 03:18:20.294
a heart a tack, my parents have

03:18:22.980 --> 03:18:24.980
been married for 48 years.

03:18:24.367 --> 03:18:26.367
And I was told, I was preferred

03:18:28.971 --> 03:18:30.971
to as the bm, I said baby mother

03:18:31.508 --> 03:18:33.508
, no, I'm a wife, who am a

03:18:34.110 --> 03:18:36.745
survivor of domestic violence, I
am not a single mother but I

03:18:37.247 --> 03:18:38.614
have a family that work
hand-in-hand.

03:18:41.350 --> 03:18:43.218
And that is how we made it out
of cflo project.

03:18:44.220 --> 03:18:46.488
And honor in jermaine who is not
here today, I just want to know

03:18:46.522 --> 03:18:48.522
that I am standing here before

03:18:49.526 --> 03:18:51.526
all of my friends and family who

03:18:52.295 --> 03:18:54.295
did not make it out of the

03:18:55.698 --> 03:18:58.000
projects, where we burned
candles for the tragedies of

03:18:58.100 --> 03:19:00.100
those children that are killed

03:19:00.269 --> 03:19:02.269
on a daily basisment by the time

03:19:02.872 --> 03:19:05.574
I was 17, I went to 30 funerals.
So if you are questioning my

03:19:06.643 --> 03:19:08.643
mental health evaluation, that

03:19:11.114 --> 03:19:13.114
is not a parental test, it is a

03:19:13.183 --> 03:19:15.183
sci fi parental evaluation that

03:19:16.753 --> 03:19:18.753
is manipulated to what I coin

03:19:19.856 --> 03:19:21.891
the term, and I do get 500 an
hour, but I'm doing pro bono

03:19:21.891 --> 03:19:23.758
here.
>> I really appreciate that,

03:19:23.994 --> 03:19:25.994
thank you.

03:19:26.396 --> 03:19:28.396
>> I coin the crypts because

03:19:28.598 --> 03:19:31.330
they operate like gang members.
And I am a little bit confused

03:19:31.167 --> 03:19:33.167
sometimes when we talk about the

03:19:33.269 --> 03:19:36.104
red and the blue.
Republicans and democrats or the

03:19:37.373 --> 03:19:39.708
bloods or the crypts.
So when I crip to the crips I

03:19:41.770 --> 03:19:43.770
refer to the process where it is

03:19:46.160 --> 03:19:48.160
man I latif reporting, criminal

03:19:49.152 --> 03:19:51.453
investigation, criminal
prosecution, financial sanctions

03:19:54.457 --> 03:19:56.457
and sentencing of up to 28 years

03:19:57.827 --> 03:20:00.263
on the state censure registry
all because it was a cry for
help.

03:20:01.798 --> 03:20:03.798
And with that is the initial

03:20:04.101 --> 03:20:06.635
safety conference where there is
no presence of an attorney.

03:20:07.304 --> 03:20:09.304
And I was lead to believe that

03:20:09.606 --> 03:20:11.173
this was a family
assessment-based conference

03:20:13.643 --> 03:20:15.643
where they wanted to review a

03:20:16.450 --> 03:20:18.450
swat analysis and understand

03:20:18.248 --> 03:20:20.316
what a benevolent child welfare
services we need.

03:20:20.751 --> 03:20:23.285
>> can I interrupt you for one
secretary, I want you to
remember that point because I

03:20:24.154 --> 03:20:26.154
want you to come back, because I

03:20:26.790 --> 03:20:29.491
want you to know, I understand
about being the ncr for 28

03:20:30.293 --> 03:20:32.127
years, we passed a law and are
checking the numbers am I think

03:20:33.229 --> 03:20:35.229
it will reduce the time that

03:20:38.135 --> 03:20:40.135
people stay in the registry

03:20:40.237 --> 03:20:42.237
significantly.

03:20:42.706 --> 03:20:45.174
So I should have just trusted t
is now eight years, it doesn't

03:20:45.675 --> 03:20:47.776
make it good or right but I just
wanted to put that down.

03:20:48.311 --> 03:20:50.779
>> trust your legal advisors.
>> I understand.

03:20:52.160 --> 03:20:54.350
Well, I thank you because I'm no
longer earning $200,000 but

03:20:55.686 --> 03:20:58.287
public assistant earning $181 a
month after paying it into

03:20:59.689 --> 03:21:02.625
social services since I was
what, 14, 15 years old, always

03:21:03.930 --> 03:21:04.993
had a job.
And kept a job.

03:21:06.463 --> 03:21:08.463
Because that was our family

03:21:08.464 --> 03:21:10.133
values is working hard for
everything we have.

03:21:12.350 --> 03:21:14.737
But I was then accused of being
involved in drug related

03:21:15.672 --> 03:21:17.672
transactions because I drive a

03:21:18.642 --> 03:21:20.642
luxury vehicle.

03:21:21.578 --> 03:21:23.412
Not to disclarm that I have top
degrees from the top

03:21:23.847 --> 03:21:26.480
universities but that is neither
here nor there right now.

03:21:26.684 --> 03:21:28.684
I'm here as a mother.

03:21:30.621 --> 03:21:32.621
I am here as my children mommy.

03:21:32.689 --> 03:21:35.570
I cry at night because they
separated me from my children

03:21:35.625 --> 03:21:38.327
for three years.
I have been punished.

03:21:39.996 --> 03:21:41.996
they withheld, deprived me of my

03:21:43.233 --> 03:21:46.202
children for 17 month while
holding out for a second

03:21:46.870 --> 03:21:48.971
pretrial with a first trial,
they lost and then a second

03:21:50.700 --> 03:21:52.700
trial, they're still trying to,

03:21:53.310 --> 03:21:55.544
what I call parent alienation.
Brain washing my children, my

03:21:55.812 --> 03:21:58.681
children say mommy, why can't
you see us.
Are you in prison.

03:21:59.683 --> 03:22:02.485
Did you take your medication.
And had to say to my children,

03:22:02.953 --> 03:22:05.421
my medication?
Which one are you referring to,

03:22:05.723 --> 03:22:07.900
the over-the-counter, the
vitamins?

03:22:07.958 --> 03:22:10.270
Because your mother is not on
medication.
>> can I ask you a question.

03:22:10.270 --> 03:22:12.361
>> sure.
>> a little off topic.

03:22:14.331 --> 03:22:16.331
So in another arena in the court

03:22:16.399 --> 03:22:18.869
system there is a theory called
parental alienation which is not

03:22:18.869 --> 03:22:20.869
scientific trvetion is an

03:22:21.672 --> 03:22:24.540
outrage t is terrible.
Where basically it is used as a

03:22:28.212 --> 03:22:31.130
reason to defend abusers from,
okay, but I'm just going off

03:22:31.140 --> 03:22:33.616
topic, but are you telling me
that you think the parental

03:22:34.684 --> 03:22:37.587
alienation is engaged in by the
state, by cps, acs.

03:22:40.457 --> 03:22:43.393
>> yes, that would be a correct
definition of the operation of

03:22:44.661 --> 03:22:47.163
child protective or what I refer
it to as the family policing

03:22:48.165 --> 03:22:50.166
services and at times it it can
be the family prostitution

03:22:50.567 --> 03:22:52.935
services where they teach young
children at a very early age how

03:22:55.840 --> 03:22:58.141
to traffic.
>> I don't know how to respond

03:23:02.112 --> 03:23:04.748
to that, please continue.
>> just in terms of domestic

03:23:04.748 --> 03:23:06.748
violence and dealing with

03:23:07.117 --> 03:23:09.117
someone with a narcissistic

03:23:09.653 --> 03:23:11.653
personality, manipulators as

03:23:12.623 --> 03:23:14.524
soon -- such as my situation, my
estranged husk utilizing the

03:23:17.628 --> 03:23:19.829
system to gain custody so he can
avoid playing child support in

03:23:20.998 --> 03:23:22.998
which I took a professional 5

03:23:23.100 --> 03:23:25.501
year sab at kal leave of absence
and used my personal retirement

03:23:26.360 --> 03:23:28.360
funds to help my children adapt

03:23:29.273 --> 03:23:31.675
to the new york city schools,
where they had unique learning

03:23:32.710 --> 03:23:35.780
styles am one was accelerated
and the other child was

03:23:36.447 --> 03:23:38.447
musically gifted but the

03:23:39.149 --> 03:23:41.184
programs here didn't tailor to
them.

03:23:43.187 --> 03:23:45.421
And subsequently, the police
officers interviewed my nine

03:23:48.159 --> 03:23:50.560
year old son and I was arrested.
I was not arrested one time, not

03:23:51.362 --> 03:23:53.362
two times but three times during

03:23:55.766 --> 03:23:57.766
the time where family external

03:23:57.835 --> 03:24:00.536
will rivalry over my families
property and in terms of kinship

03:24:01.638 --> 03:24:03.390
where I was extorted for $3,000
a month.

03:24:04.409 --> 03:24:06.209
And if we told about that, my
children would be removed from

03:24:07.211 --> 03:24:09.913
the house of my sister.
My children were wrongfully

03:24:12.450 --> 03:24:14.450
placed into kinship foster care.

03:24:15.520 --> 03:24:16.352
And I did not find out until
discovery.

03:24:17.221 --> 03:24:19.622
And my sister was receiving
money in which she should have

03:24:20.124 --> 03:24:22.124
not taken from the system

03:24:26.864 --> 03:24:28.864
because we made above the rate.

03:24:31.802 --> 03:24:34.370
So I say that because as the
tragedy that my children

03:24:35.873 --> 03:24:37.873
continue to go through this

03:24:39.511 --> 03:24:41.511
system of intentional action and

03:24:41.679 --> 03:24:43.679
inactions to separate our family

03:24:45.583 --> 03:24:47.583
with the support of family

03:24:48.519 --> 03:24:50.519
court, who reinforces the

03:24:52.790 --> 03:24:55.358
systemic oppression, misogyny,
gender-based discrimination and

03:24:55.792 --> 03:24:57.792
parent alienation in terms of

03:24:58.396 --> 03:25:00.931
the state level, in terms of the
abuser level, taking advantage

03:25:02.467 --> 03:25:04.467
of this and then also adult if I

03:25:04.769 --> 03:25:07.404
kaition where my children are
being taught to tell me what to
do.

03:25:08.305 --> 03:25:10.305
Because that is considered good

03:25:10.507 --> 03:25:12.507
parenting now.

03:25:13.345 --> 03:25:15.345
So I want to go.

03:25:16.548 --> 03:25:18.548
>> adulti tz fikaition of your

03:25:18.616 --> 03:25:21.218
kids to treat you -- tiech, that
is part.
>> under the court order

03:25:21.552 --> 03:25:23.552
supervision which is another

03:25:23.955 --> 03:25:26.823
shadow forecasting, that too
requires policy changes, I call

03:25:28.859 --> 03:25:30.859
the police officers on the

03:25:31.620 --> 03:25:33.564
supervisors twice and my visit
taitions were suspended.

03:25:33.631 --> 03:25:36.166
I thought that was the best
thing to do in terms of

03:25:36.734 --> 03:25:38.734
exercising my civilian rights

03:25:38.770 --> 03:25:40.937
when the case worker told my
children the reason why you are

03:25:41.572 --> 03:25:43.572
here is because your mother

03:25:43.774 --> 03:25:45.774
didn't behave herself.

03:25:45.976 --> 03:25:47.976
And so further brain washing my

03:25:48.680 --> 03:25:51.348
children that I am an unfit
mother, not capable of taking

03:25:52.584 --> 03:25:55.452
care of them, and they should
distrust me to not feel

03:25:55.820 --> 03:25:57.820
comfortable being around me.

03:25:58.589 --> 03:26:00.589
In fact, the community came

03:26:00.925 --> 03:26:02.925
together, the family and friends

03:26:04.929 --> 03:26:06.929
and raised $3,000 for me to meet

03:26:07.866 --> 03:26:09.866
acs demands where I had to spend

03:26:10.769 --> 03:26:13.700
$300 a day to spend -- to see my
children.

03:26:13.438 --> 03:26:15.438
Given 24 hour notice, which is

03:26:15.807 --> 03:26:17.807
more than the monthly rate of

03:26:17.942 --> 03:26:19.142
child tax credit of $250 a
month.

03:26:21.345 --> 03:26:24.820
That is my parental fitness
test.
Ask me why I am still here?

03:26:24.820 --> 03:26:26.500
I don't know.
I did everything that they asked

03:26:26.618 --> 03:26:28.618
me for, in less than four

03:26:28.920 --> 03:26:30.920
months, I paid out of pocket

03:26:30.922 --> 03:26:33.390
over $200,000 in legal fees and
I'm still here.

03:26:33.491 --> 03:26:36.930
>> goal post on you.
>> the goal post keeps changing

03:26:36.661 --> 03:26:38.862
each time with the intent to
terminate my parental rights

03:26:39.397 --> 03:26:42.660
because I spoke back to the
judge, to the attorneys, and

03:26:43.501 --> 03:26:45.803
they said I have a behavioral
problem and a personality issue.

03:26:46.504 --> 03:26:48.705
>> spoke back fighting for your
kid who is being taken away from

03:26:50.642 --> 03:26:53.176
you and the fact that you
defended yourself is used
against you.

03:26:55.580 --> 03:26:57.580
>> and then I was silenced and

03:26:57.648 --> 03:27:00.510
the agency changed the
visitation schedule where they

03:27:00.619 --> 03:27:02.619
create the time, the location,

03:27:03.788 --> 03:27:06.457
the frequency based on what they
want.
But my fame is on that paper and

03:27:07.826 --> 03:27:10.228
I said that's fraud.
That is an illusion, I didn't

03:27:10.228 --> 03:27:12.463
create that schedule.
I can spend more time with my

03:27:12.463 --> 03:27:14.731
children.
And they said no, this is the

03:27:15.433 --> 03:27:18.336
time you are going to spend with
them.
Not one attorney challenged
them.

03:27:18.970 --> 03:27:21.605
So I had to fire them and then
it is still ongoing process

03:27:22.841 --> 03:27:25.309
because the agency knows how to
stall the system.

03:27:27.812 --> 03:27:30.130
And the process of stalling the
system you are losing a lot of

03:27:31.820 --> 03:27:32.582
money when you pay out of
pocket.

03:27:33.117 --> 03:27:35.786
>> not just money, but time away
from your kid.
>> yeah.

03:27:36.880 --> 03:27:38.923
>> so I'm being withheld from my
children, my children went from

03:27:39.191 --> 03:27:41.592
attending top ten schools in new
york city to now living in the

03:27:42.427 --> 03:27:44.595
state of virginia, at a number
two school.

03:27:46.431 --> 03:27:48.431
My children were bilingual,

03:27:48.833 --> 03:27:51.168
learning double languages, and
was told that they can't learn

03:27:51.703 --> 03:27:54.238
the languages any more.
They had an iap.

03:27:58.677 --> 03:28:01.612
The agency withheld it for a
year.
>> they knew about did.

03:28:02.480 --> 03:28:04.649
>> you lost your parental rights
to make education decisions at

03:28:04.649 --> 03:28:07.517
that point?
>> they secretly transferred my

03:28:08.587 --> 03:28:11.155
parental rights to their dad and
gave him sole custody.

03:28:11.423 --> 03:28:14.250
We did not know, not everyone
had the same paperwork.

03:28:14.526 --> 03:28:16.526
>> this is for you, if you can,

03:28:17.562 --> 03:28:20.130
or any lawyers, is there any
notification requirement with a

03:28:21.366 --> 03:28:23.501
change of, yes, I'm getting a
nod by chris.

03:28:23.501 --> 03:28:26.270
>> okay.
>> that is a great question.

03:28:28.400 --> 03:28:30.908
The family court system is
horrible.
We don't know when court

03:28:31.209 --> 03:28:33.678
meetings are happening.
We don't know the purpose of the

03:28:33.678 --> 03:28:35.678
court meeting.

03:28:36.615 --> 03:28:39.516
We don't receive notification.
The type of custody, for

03:28:40.285 --> 03:28:42.285
example, the type of visitation.

03:28:42.520 --> 03:28:44.520
You have sole custody, you have

03:28:44.690 --> 03:28:46.157
joint custody, you have physical
custody.

03:28:47.259 --> 03:28:49.259
So once you're in the system, if

03:28:50.429 --> 03:28:52.596
you share parenting, kinship
parentingk they create a

03:28:52.998 --> 03:28:55.266
competitive environment so that
you're fighting one another.

03:28:56.434 --> 03:28:58.669
And then they tell you well, who
is the better parent.

03:28:59.270 --> 03:29:01.773
I said let's be clear, there is
no competition in this.

03:29:02.207 --> 03:29:04.709
I am the main parent.
However my sister can help

03:29:05.577 --> 03:29:07.577
because we're complying with

03:29:08.800 --> 03:29:10.800
you, but what you are doing is

03:29:10.315 --> 03:29:12.830
causing decision and disfunction
in our home.

03:29:14.286 --> 03:29:16.587
>> and family against family.
And children against parents and

03:29:17.322 --> 03:29:19.691
then parents against the
grandparents, in fact, they, the

03:29:21.293 --> 03:29:23.729
case worker told my dad he was
too old and he con keep up with

03:29:23.729 --> 03:29:25.729
the kids.

03:29:27.666 --> 03:29:29.967
so he couldn't supervise the
visits.
>> are there any -- okay.

03:29:31.703 --> 03:29:33.703
Thank you.

03:29:34.139 --> 03:29:37.108
Are there any -- any parameters
for what case workers can

03:29:37.910 --> 03:29:40.144
disclose to kids?
>> can I step in real quick.

03:29:40.646 --> 03:29:42.947
I tully have to go catch a
flight.
>> how dare you.

03:29:43.282 --> 03:29:45.149
>> so I just want.
>> thank you very much.

03:29:47.273 --> 03:29:48.527
>> thank you.
>> we will talk again soon, no
worries.

03:29:51.389 --> 03:29:53.389
>> thank you.

03:29:55.261 --> 03:29:57.261
>> so we go back to compliance.

03:29:58.997 --> 03:30:01.966
Case workers are what I call
lawlessness, there is alot of

03:30:06.738 --> 03:30:08.738
perjury, false reporting, for

03:30:11.410 --> 03:30:13.311
example, according to section
4301118 new york city code and

03:30:13.412 --> 03:30:16.181
rules and regulations they
require two weeks written

03:30:16.749 --> 03:30:18.749
notification to conduct a family

03:30:21.186 --> 03:30:23.654
service court review.
I received a 25 hour notice to

03:30:24.523 --> 03:30:26.523
show up by myself.

03:30:27.994 --> 03:30:29.994
And that is how they ambush you.

03:30:31.430 --> 03:30:33.498
And criminalize your role as a
black mother.

03:30:33.699 --> 03:30:35.699
So unlike.

03:30:35.734 --> 03:30:38.336
>> hold on, this is all good
stuff and the more you tell your

03:30:39.271 --> 03:30:41.607
story the more pieces are
jumping out at me.

03:30:41.607 --> 03:30:44.376
24 hour notice.
>> less than 24 hours.

03:30:44.376 --> 03:30:47.450
>> what does northbound do with
that, I mean somebody calls me

03:30:47.847 --> 03:30:50.749
and said you have to be in court
tomorrowk I have a job, I have a

03:30:51.851 --> 03:30:54.552
kid, I got a million -- how do
you do that, 24 hour notice?

03:30:55.821 --> 03:30:57.821
>> less than that, 7:00 at night

03:30:58.524 --> 03:31:00.524
I receive an erck mail for 10:00

03:31:01.460 --> 03:31:03.127
morning meeting.
>> okay.

03:31:04.564 --> 03:31:07.650
>> did they refer to it as some
type of an emergency application

03:31:08.167 --> 03:31:10.402
and that is why it was such a
short time period.

03:31:10.936 --> 03:31:13.137
>> no, I was just told it is pie
obligation it to do what they

03:31:13.505 --> 03:31:15.505
tell me to do.

03:31:15.708 --> 03:31:18.643
>> so in addition to the fear,
the trauma that is intg caused,

03:31:19.177 --> 03:31:21.713
part of that is hey, man, can I
get a call at any moment.

03:31:22.114 --> 03:31:24.114
They say you have to be

03:31:24.116 --> 03:31:26.116
somewhere in 24 hours and if you

03:31:26.552 --> 03:31:29.870
don't do it you are much more
likely to lose your kid.

03:31:29.154 --> 03:31:31.256
>> absolutely, because the judge
doesn't believe you.
>> okay.

03:31:31.323 --> 03:31:33.858
>> and then also, I didn't know
until my friends from california

03:31:35.930 --> 03:31:37.128
told me that have you seen your
court order.

03:31:38.464 --> 03:31:40.565
I'm like a court order, a court
transcript, a corporate report,

03:31:42.168 --> 03:31:43.401
I'm like I didn't even know that
existed.

03:31:44.203 --> 03:31:45.737
That goes back to knowing our
rights.

03:31:46.238 --> 03:31:49.140
Knowing our rights shouldn't
only occur in the initial stage,

03:31:49.808 --> 03:31:51.808
it should occur throughout the

03:31:52.440 --> 03:31:54.712
entire lifecycle of reporting,
investigation, prosecution,

03:31:54.980 --> 03:31:56.980
sanctioning and sentencing.

03:31:57.500 --> 03:31:59.384
And at the initial safety
conference there should always

03:32:00.860 --> 03:32:02.254
be the presence of an attorney.
And unfortunately I did have

03:32:03.656 --> 03:32:06.324
representation but it was bad
representation.
I was told to just do whatever

03:32:06.525 --> 03:32:08.525
they tell you to do.

03:32:08.894 --> 03:32:11.462
Just like a check list.
>> and if you don't.

03:32:11.563 --> 03:32:13.664
>> and if you don't, and which
they threatened me.

03:32:14.934 --> 03:32:16.934
And you know I'm not going to

03:32:17.737 --> 03:32:20.105
say that I didn't maintain my
compose sure.

03:32:20.172 --> 03:32:22.807
>> I wouldn't either, you don't
have to justify that.

03:32:23.542 --> 03:32:25.542
>> but I wouldn't expect that

03:32:26.450 --> 03:32:27.312
type of behavior from government
officials.

03:32:29.615 --> 03:32:32.850
I was to the allly taken back by
that.
So if I can just wrap up.

03:32:32.850 --> 03:32:34.953
>> please.
>> sorry, do you have any other
questions.

03:32:35.488 --> 03:32:38.390
>> no, no, but I do need a job
so if you need an assistant

03:32:38.491 --> 03:32:40.425
industrial engineer to
facilitate your workshops and

03:32:40.760 --> 03:32:43.194
make it happen, we can do that
and we can make it happen in

03:32:45.764 --> 03:32:47.764
less than a $100 billion budget.

03:32:47.901 --> 03:32:49.901
>> appreciate it.

03:32:51.571 --> 03:32:53.571
>> okay.

03:32:55.108 --> 03:32:57.976
I like to just conclude with
this, so unlike kate and dave

03:32:58.578 --> 03:33:00.578
who were very fortunate to

03:33:00.679 --> 03:33:02.614
benefit from the kinship
navigating not have their

03:33:04.817 --> 03:33:06.817
children placed into foster care

03:33:07.587 --> 03:33:10.189
and the sister receives her
children reunification being

03:33:11.491 --> 03:33:13.759
labeled as bipolar, being
bipolar in the black community

03:33:15.610 --> 03:33:16.528
is actually criminal
sized -- criminalized.

03:33:17.463 --> 03:33:19.463
And we're not given dying no

03:33:19.498 --> 03:33:21.498
sises as adjustment disorders.

03:33:23.370 --> 03:33:25.838
Adjusting to new life events and
changes where you're going lieu

03:33:26.673 --> 03:33:29.410
a divorce, you're going through
a separation, that is considered

03:33:31.440 --> 03:33:33.245
a mental illness under the cps
operation definition.

03:33:34.247 --> 03:33:36.181
>> going through a divorce is a
mental illness.

03:33:37.516 --> 03:33:39.516
>> yes, swi treated differently

03:33:39.852 --> 03:33:41.852
in comparison to tore ethnic

03:33:42.656 --> 03:33:45.290
groups or what I consider
separation, kus he today divorce

03:33:45.425 --> 03:33:47.425
proceedings where there is

03:33:47.660 --> 03:33:49.394
actually a written parenting
plan or?

03:33:51.898 --> 03:33:53.898
The case with acs, there is no

03:33:54.467 --> 03:33:57.302
clear written reunification plan
with a smart time deliverable

03:34:01.608 --> 03:34:03.608
because each time I ask for it,

03:34:03.643 --> 03:34:05.643
the imlel goal post changes, how

03:34:05.678 --> 03:34:08.580
do I maintain a job, how do I
get my kids back, it is a never

03:34:08.981 --> 03:34:10.982
ending cycle of abuse.
>> we get it.

03:34:11.284 --> 03:34:13.385
So one of the things that we
mentioned earlier is there is a

03:34:14.286 --> 03:34:16.489
bill to address safety plans.
We'll make sure that you have it

03:34:17.157 --> 03:34:19.525
and if you think there is
anything that you are missing we

03:34:19.726 --> 03:34:21.493
would like to know about it.
>> sure.

03:34:23.730 --> 03:34:25.998
>> and I want my money back.
>> it is $500.

03:34:27.533 --> 03:34:29.533
>> no, no t is $we are not

03:34:29.535 --> 03:34:32.103
counting the money I lost right
now.

03:34:34.775 --> 03:34:37.576
>> do you -- okay, please.
>> okay.
So most importantly because of

03:34:38.440 --> 03:34:40.440
this I would like to present

03:34:41.140 --> 03:34:43.315
three demands after hearing my
testimony I hope are you all

03:34:43.616 --> 03:34:46.585
moved to action.
I urge you to exercise your

03:34:47.954 --> 03:34:49.954
power to do the following,

03:34:51.124 --> 03:34:53.124
number one, pass the family mem

03:34:54.861 --> 03:34:57.290
dumb laws, informed consent.
Parents and children have the

03:34:58.365 --> 03:35:00.199
right to know their rights to
maintain and sustain their

03:35:01.234 --> 03:35:03.234
family standards of living.

03:35:04.304 --> 03:35:06.304
And without being judged,

03:35:07.473 --> 03:35:09.473
harassed, bullied and

03:35:11.445 --> 03:35:13.445
antagonized by cps case worker.

03:35:15.849 --> 03:35:18.684
Number two, please hold acs
accountable even terminating

03:35:19.118 --> 03:35:21.118
positions because have I never

03:35:21.954 --> 03:35:23.954
heard that so far, no one has

03:35:24.957 --> 03:35:26.191
job been lost for committing
perjury.

03:35:28.280 --> 03:35:30.280
To drop the charges against us,

03:35:30.931 --> 03:35:32.931
restore my full parental rights

03:35:33.660 --> 03:35:35.660
and still in pretrial but lost

03:35:35.101 --> 03:35:37.101
all my rights.

03:35:37.604 --> 03:35:40.172
Require my children with whole
family reunification that means

03:35:42.675 --> 03:35:45.545
mom and dad, because acs loves
to divide the family and create

03:35:50.684 --> 03:35:52.684
single family homes I am asking

03:35:53.653 --> 03:35:56.550
to support shared coparenting
where my marriage did not work

03:35:58.858 --> 03:36:01.728
out but the parenting will.
Living with me as the primary

03:36:03.130 --> 03:36:05.130
care provider, not as mentally

03:36:06.233 --> 03:36:08.233
ill but aspen tally well.

03:36:11.471 --> 03:36:13.471
And re -- but as mentally

03:36:14.641 --> 03:36:16.641
welshing reintegrated with their

03:36:16.743 --> 03:36:18.743
families, friends, church and

03:36:19.113 --> 03:36:21.514
uninterrupted access into their
schools without acs

03:36:21.915 --> 03:36:23.816
interrogation and without my
knowledge and content.

03:36:24.384 --> 03:36:27.353
Number three I want cps it to
provide my children and I with a

03:36:27.654 --> 03:36:29.654
written acknowledgment of their

03:36:31.570 --> 03:36:33.193
mother's mental fitness,
wellness and parental

03:36:33.193 --> 03:36:35.694
capabilities.
This way MAY children will

03:36:37.865 --> 03:36:40.800
believe I am not imprisoned and
that the rumors they are hearing

03:36:42.200 --> 03:36:44.200
about my unfitness were false

03:36:45.505 --> 03:36:48.107
accusations manufactured and a
defamation of my character, as

03:36:50.443 --> 03:36:53.112
well as my family business with
the atonement that my family

03:36:54.982 --> 03:36:56.982
continued to maintain a legacy

03:36:58.285 --> 03:37:00.720
of hard work and integrity.
Finally we're beginning the

03:37:02.550 --> 03:37:04.550
process of purifying, healing

03:37:04.624 --> 03:37:07.493
and restoration in honor of my
descendants and family from

03:37:09.963 --> 03:37:12.398
venezuala, trinidad and tobago
and east india.

03:37:13.767 --> 03:37:16.202
On behalf of my children and I
we would like to thank the new

03:37:16.703 --> 03:37:19.105
york state assembly for the
chance to speak the truth.

03:37:20.741 --> 03:37:22.741
I hope my personal system and

03:37:23.900 --> 03:37:25.900
children's pain and my pain,

03:37:25.579 --> 03:37:27.613
because we have a symbiotic
relationship, what you do to my

03:37:28.683 --> 03:37:31.351
children affects me, and what do
you to me affects my children.

03:37:33.887 --> 03:37:35.822
To be a source of information
and insurance operation t to

03:37:38.558 --> 03:37:41.600
further our collect -- insurance
operation, to dismantle systems

03:37:42.129 --> 03:37:44.763
of oppression, gender-based have
I lens, financial explore

03:37:45.199 --> 03:37:48.340
taition, of vulnerable children,
mothers and fathers, GOD parents

03:37:49.770 --> 03:37:51.770
and families in crisis.

03:37:53.741 --> 03:37:55.741
Subsequently, it has been 967

03:37:57.144 --> 03:37:59.745
days since cps removed my two
children from their primary

03:38:00.614 --> 03:38:02.614
residence in new york city, 967

03:38:03.184 --> 03:38:05.185
days with no shared bed time
stories.

03:38:07.540 --> 03:38:09.540
967 days with no shared

03:38:09.256 --> 03:38:11.256
unmonitered play time.

03:38:12.359 --> 03:38:14.359
967 days with no home-cook,

03:38:15.950 --> 03:38:17.950
spanish and caribbean cooked

03:38:17.564 --> 03:38:20.990
meals, no shopping, no sundae
DINNERSnd people tile -- meal

03:38:21.200 --> 03:38:23.200
times with grandma and grandma,

03:38:24.380 --> 03:38:26.473
to family bonding via positive
self-esteem, affirmation and

03:38:27.208 --> 03:38:29.208
sacred mother and children time

03:38:30.477 --> 03:38:32.477
noin as the african-american

03:38:33.647 --> 03:38:36.415
federal crown act legislation.
New york state assembly, please

03:38:38.186 --> 03:38:41.540
enforce your executive powers,
build back safe, better,

03:38:42.556 --> 03:38:44.900
stronger and healthy american
families.

03:38:46.260 --> 03:38:48.260
In my case, please keep our

03:38:48.429 --> 03:38:51.230
young affect intact.
Restore my full mother and

03:38:52.366 --> 03:38:54.366
father parental rights.

03:38:55.336 --> 03:38:58.305
Return my babies, drop cps
charges and hold family court

03:39:00.308 --> 03:39:02.308
legal systems, judiciary

03:39:03.777 --> 03:39:05.777
administrators, case workers and

03:39:06.213 --> 03:39:07.914
prosecutors accountable for the
socioeconomic and racial

03:39:08.715 --> 03:39:10.751
injustice that have plagued our
community for 450 years.

03:39:10.751 --> 03:39:12.751
Thank you.

03:39:17.458 --> 03:39:19.926
>> thank you so much.
>> your testimony was incredibly

03:39:20.227 --> 03:39:22.762
helpful and powerful an served
the purpose, so thank you so

03:39:23.970 --> 03:39:25.231
much.
I appreciate it.

03:39:26.133 --> 03:39:28.133
Next panel, MISS Jenna lauter,

03:39:28.235 --> 03:39:30.200
equal justice works fellow were
the new york civil liberties

03:39:31.372 --> 03:39:33.473
union and jennifer feinberg,
litigation supervisor from the

03:39:33.841 --> 03:39:36.444
center for family
representation.
Hello ladies, how are you.

03:39:36.444 --> 03:39:38.444
>> good afternoon.

03:39:48.220 --> 03:39:50.524
>> good afternoon.
>> hi, my name is jenna lauter,

03:39:51.325 --> 03:39:53.660
teferring on.
>> while you are testifying you
can take down the mask.

03:39:53.828 --> 03:39:55.395
>> are you okay with it.
>> are you okay.

03:39:56.630 --> 03:39:58.630
>> quool, thank you.

03:39:58.299 --> 03:40:01.670
>> so I'm here to testify on
behalf of the new york civil

03:40:02.403 --> 03:40:04.403
liberties union, the nyclu

03:40:05.273 --> 03:40:07.675
mission is to promote, and
project rights and values

03:40:07.675 --> 03:40:10.770
embodied in the constitution of
new york and the U.S. This

03:40:10.770 --> 03:40:12.679
includes the constitutional
guarantee of equal protection

03:40:13.414 --> 03:40:15.982
under the lays and the right to
privacy an personal autonomy

03:40:16.851 --> 03:40:18.510
including in the realm of family
life.

03:40:19.753 --> 03:40:22.322
The nyclu has long viewed state
intervention in the family as a

03:40:22.590 --> 03:40:25.426
civil liberties issue and has
been involved in matters

03:40:25.527 --> 03:40:28.280
relating to the child welfare
system for nearly 50 years.

03:40:28.563 --> 03:40:30.563
Throughout our work on these

03:40:31.699 --> 03:40:34.401
issues the nyclu has seen how
public per acceptings diverge

03:40:35.536 --> 03:40:38.505
from the experiences of those it
impacts.
While it is easy for some to

03:40:38.772 --> 03:40:40.772
embrace the view of the child

03:40:41.142 --> 03:40:43.944
welfare system as an innocuous
lifeline foreign dang erred

03:40:44.120 --> 03:40:46.413
children, those investigated by
it experience it as a stressor

03:40:47.515 --> 03:40:49.850
that puts their families under a
microscope and threaterns them

03:40:50.518 --> 03:40:52.518
with separation.

03:40:53.870 --> 03:40:55.822
The term child welfare system is
itself a misnomer, it is a

03:40:56.857 --> 03:40:59.930
system of family regulation, an
a analog to policing.

03:40:59.761 --> 03:41:01.761
Instead of fortifying families,

03:41:02.163 --> 03:41:05.132
the system further destabilizes
already marginalized
communities.

03:41:05.767 --> 03:41:08.635
Black and brown feaments in
particular experience cps as an

03:41:08.970 --> 03:41:11.538
invasive institution that sur
vails them and responds to

03:41:11.706 --> 03:41:14.340
shortcomings with punishment
instead of with resources and

03:41:14.441 --> 03:41:17.144
material support.
All the while evading the due

03:41:17.679 --> 03:41:20.381
process protections we have long
recognized as necessary in the

03:41:20.915 --> 03:41:23.550
criminal context.
Meaningful change is urgently

03:41:23.651 --> 03:41:25.952
needed to protect families
rights and dignity in the face

03:41:28.220 --> 03:41:29.489
of far reaching government
incrucial -- intrusion.

03:41:30.357 --> 03:41:32.125
We welcome the committee
attentiveness to these issues

03:41:32.994 --> 03:41:35.763
and the opportunity to testify
today.
The family regulation system has

03:41:36.865 --> 03:41:39.800
been dubbed the new jane crow
because in many ways it mirrors

03:41:40.868 --> 03:41:43.603
its criminal legal counterpart.
Both are mechanisms by which the

03:41:44.539 --> 03:41:46.674
state exerts coercive control
over low income black and brown

03:41:46.674 --> 03:41:49.376
populations.
But while a substantial body of

03:41:50.110 --> 03:41:52.746
law has developed to protect the
rights of individuals involved

03:41:53.448 --> 03:41:56.116
as a criminal legal system the
same attention has not been paid

03:41:56.718 --> 03:41:58.718
to targets of fem regulation.

03:41:59.254 --> 03:42:01.254
Compared with the widespread

03:42:02.230 --> 03:42:04.591
scrutiny a flied to
systemic -- the injustice facing

03:42:05.226 --> 03:42:07.996
cps involved families is only
the beginning to feature

03:42:07.996 --> 03:42:09.996
mainstream public discourse.

03:42:10.980 --> 03:42:12.980
Thanks to decades of determined

03:42:12.734 --> 03:42:14.680
advocacy by parents, attorneys
and academics.

03:42:15.103 --> 03:42:17.604
This is in part due to the
compounded marginalization

03:42:18.273 --> 03:42:20.273
impacted communities face at the

03:42:20.575 --> 03:42:22.800
intersection of gernd, race and
class.

03:42:23.110 --> 03:42:25.545
As new york reckons with the
corrosive impacts of systemic

03:42:26.848 --> 03:42:29.183
racism throughout our steutionz
and simultaneously reals from

03:42:30.218 --> 03:42:32.860
the impact of the pandemic that
has disproportionately hurt

03:42:32.287 --> 03:42:34.287
communities of color and driven

03:42:34.722 --> 03:42:36.824
millions of women were from the
workforce we must simultaneously

03:42:37.959 --> 03:42:39.926
address the harms brought by the
family regulation system

03:42:40.795 --> 03:42:42.295
primarily on black and brown
mothers.

03:42:42.831 --> 03:42:45.399
The system separates black and
brown families at alarming rates

03:42:47.102 --> 03:42:49.803
as we all know.
Statewide black children made

03:42:51.106 --> 03:42:53.607
only 15 percent of the child
population but approximately 40%

03:42:53.741 --> 03:42:55.742
of the foster youth.
In new york city only about a

03:42:56.411 --> 03:42:58.411
quarter of children under 18 are

03:42:58.746 --> 03:43:00.982
black but black children make up
disproportionate 53 percent of

03:43:01.617 --> 03:43:03.617
those in foster care.

03:43:04.586 --> 03:43:06.887
By contrast approximately 40% of
children in new york city are

03:43:06.955 --> 03:43:09.290
white and yet they only comprise
about 6 percent of those in

03:43:09.357 --> 03:43:11.357
foster care.

03:43:11.960 --> 03:43:14.362
The vast majority of family
operations arise not from abuse

03:43:14.362 --> 03:43:16.362
but alleged neglect.

03:43:16.731 --> 03:43:18.731
Which largely results from sirks

03:43:20.791 --> 03:43:22.770
related to poverty.
For example, inadequate
nutrition, unstable housing and

03:43:23.171 --> 03:43:25.171
lack of child care could all

03:43:25.807 --> 03:43:27.608
give rise to neglect finding.
Accordingly families living

03:43:28.243 --> 03:43:30.911
below the poverty line are 22
times more likely to be involved

03:43:31.379 --> 03:43:33.379
in the family regulation system.

03:43:33.881 --> 03:43:36.618
It is imperative that new york
critically examine the rule of

03:43:36.618 --> 03:43:39.353
family regulation in
perpetuating and eck as baiting

03:43:40.422 --> 03:43:43.124
racial and economic inequality.
As new york confronts issues of

03:43:43.825 --> 03:43:45.825
systemic racism in policing it

03:43:46.628 --> 03:43:49.496
must simultaneously add
ves -- address surveillance,
control and punishment that

03:43:50.565 --> 03:43:52.466
operate on the family level and
domestic sphere.

03:43:54.470 --> 03:43:57.500
The nyclu urges this committee
to pursue policy changes that

03:43:57.500 --> 03:43:59.500
can help reduce state

03:43:59.107 --> 03:44:01.509
disfunction of families while
protecting the rights of parents

03:44:03.178 --> 03:44:04.845
including a a6792 requiring cp
sk agents to provide parents

03:44:05.513 --> 03:44:07.381
with rights in a child
protective investigation at the

03:44:08.160 --> 03:44:10.617
first first point of contact.
As you heard a lot about today,

03:44:11.530 --> 03:44:13.121
in the criminal context police
are required to read people

03:44:14.220 --> 03:44:16.524
their miranda rights and pop
culture references even to those

03:44:17.426 --> 03:44:18.926
rights have enhanced public
understanding of them.

03:44:20.595 --> 03:44:22.997
But cps case workers have no
equivalent mandate to inform

03:44:24.532 --> 03:44:26.934
parents of their rights.
A6792 will allow parents to make

03:44:27.970 --> 03:44:30.705
informed decisions, atticly
vulnerable moments while

03:44:31.874 --> 03:44:33.908
reducing confusion and steuntds
for -- opportunities for abuse of

03:44:34.760 --> 03:44:36.760
power.

03:44:40.448 --> 03:44:42.884
The ncycli sports a789 which
prolibts anonymous reports.

03:44:42.884 --> 03:44:45.452
Anonymous calls are used to
harass or threaten parents and

03:44:46.822 --> 03:44:48.623
the inherent lack of
accountability an anonymous

03:44:48.924 --> 03:44:51.920
reporting casts doubts on the
reliability of those reports.

03:44:51.660 --> 03:44:54.562
Pass this legislation can help
reduce unnecessary intervention

03:44:55.300 --> 03:44:57.640
without compromising child
safety.

03:44:58.700 --> 03:45:00.700
Additionally the nyclu supports

03:45:00.735 --> 03:45:03.300
legislation that would require
health-care providers obtain

03:45:04.340 --> 03:45:06.340
content before performing

03:45:07.900 --> 03:45:09.900
medically unnecessary drug tees

03:45:12.114 --> 03:45:14.114
on people or newborns.

03:45:14.449 --> 03:45:17.251
A4285 would be a step towards
ameliorating the issues that

03:45:17.519 --> 03:45:19.519
nonconsensual drug testing

03:45:19.621 --> 03:45:22.900
causes by prohibiting
involuntary testing of pregnant

03:45:22.525 --> 03:45:24.525
people in new york hospitals.

03:45:25.127 --> 03:45:27.261
Finally the nyclu urge ises the
legislature to consider policy

03:45:27.763 --> 03:45:30.164
that would ensure parents have
access to legal services at the

03:45:30.832 --> 03:45:32.832
most critical moments of a child

03:45:34.436 --> 03:45:36.437
protective investigation.
Currently -- entitled to tan

03:45:36.471 --> 03:45:38.471
attorney only upon the first

03:45:38.574 --> 03:45:40.675
family court date but must
navigate the investigation phase

03:45:43.412 --> 03:45:45.412
and any removals on their own.

03:45:45.581 --> 03:45:48.116
They must navigate parents must
navigate the investigation phase

03:45:48.116 --> 03:45:50.116
and emergency removals on their

03:45:50.419 --> 03:45:52.787
own, they are not entitled to an
attorney at that point.

03:45:53.855 --> 03:45:55.891
The state commission on parental
representation identified the

03:45:56.726 --> 03:45:59.527
importance of early access to
council in its 2019 interim

03:45:59.695 --> 03:46:01.695
report and urged that it be

03:46:02.531 --> 03:46:05.466
granted to all parents as the
its top recommendation.

03:46:05.601 --> 03:46:08.102
The legislature should heed this
advice and afford parents access

03:46:08.537 --> 03:46:11.238
to representation throughout all
pivotal moments in their case

03:46:11.306 --> 03:46:13.508
especially when fundamental
liberty and privacy interests

03:46:13.943 --> 03:46:15.943
are at stake.

03:46:16.479 --> 03:46:19.447
The family regulation system
implicates important civil
liberties, interests and the

03:46:19.515 --> 03:46:22.160
stakes are highest for new
york's most vulnerable

03:46:22.818 --> 03:46:25.487
communities, as the legislature
continues to combat systemic

03:46:25.487 --> 03:46:27.321
racism throughout our
institutions it must not neglect

03:46:27.956 --> 03:46:30.260
the issue of family operation
through the family regulation

03:46:30.260 --> 03:46:31.893
system.
Which cuts to the heart of

03:46:33.496 --> 03:46:35.497
racial gender and class
inequality.

03:46:36.832 --> 03:46:39.801
The nyclu welcomes the family
assembly attention and looks
forward to working with you

03:46:41.603 --> 03:46:44.500
throughout the legislative
session.
>> appreciate it.

03:46:45.874 --> 03:46:47.874
We are on the same page.

03:46:50.179 --> 03:46:52.179
We have covered most -- it is an

03:46:52.415 --> 03:46:55.216
important issue.
You used the term coercing

03:46:56.719 --> 03:46:59.487
control, really helpful.
Because my understanding of

03:47:00.723 --> 03:47:02.957
course is control is domestic
violence context where you have

03:47:04.493 --> 03:47:07.362
an abuser who uses multiple
mechanisms of control,

03:47:07.497 --> 03:47:10.980
financial, whatever you can, I
will take your phone, all that
stuff.

03:47:10.366 --> 03:47:13.201
By the way, there should be a
law for coercive control that

03:47:14.203 --> 03:47:16.304
should be illegal, that is
something for another day.

03:47:16.739 --> 03:47:18.739
But to have coercive control

03:47:21.310 --> 03:47:23.946
being used in this context as a
mechanism or tactic of the

03:47:24.347 --> 03:47:26.482
government is something
completely different and a lot

03:47:26.482 --> 03:47:28.482
scarier.

03:47:29.719 --> 03:47:32.454
>> we have heard about the ptsd
and trauma that so many parents

03:47:33.756 --> 03:47:36.624
feel as a result of the control
exerted over them.
>> what is helping me with that,

03:47:37.459 --> 03:47:39.459
is it st not just one terrible

03:47:39.461 --> 03:47:41.597
incident, it is is fear forever.
How do you live with knowing

03:47:41.597 --> 03:47:43.597
that somebody is going it to

03:47:43.700 --> 03:47:46.134
call you, you have to be here
tomorrow, at a certain time

03:47:46.169 --> 03:47:48.103
otherwise, you know what I mean,
so I understand.

03:47:49.271 --> 03:47:51.271
But thank you for bringing that

03:47:51.907 --> 03:47:54.760
up I appreciate it.
>> thank you very much.

03:47:54.760 --> 03:47:56.440
Good it to see you again.
>> you too.

03:47:56.712 --> 03:47:58.712
Good afternoon, my name is

03:47:59.516 --> 03:48:01.416
jennifer feinberg and I'm a
litigation supervisor at the

03:48:01.951 --> 03:48:04.920
center for family
representation.
Thank you CHAIRMAN Levin and the

03:48:05.188 --> 03:48:07.188
committee for giving us the

03:48:08.491 --> 03:48:11.292
opportunity to testify today.
Cfr is the countywide assign

03:48:12.394 --> 03:48:15.129
family defense provider for
representing parents prosecuted

03:48:16.166 --> 03:48:18.967
for neglect and abuse by acs in
queens and manhattan family
court.

03:48:19.903 --> 03:48:21.903
Since our founding we have

03:48:22.238 --> 03:48:25.140
represented over 12,000 parents.
Of those parents, over 90

03:48:25.941 --> 03:48:28.676
percent are black, brown and
people of color.

03:48:29.345 --> 03:48:31.345
All of our clients are poor.

03:48:32.148 --> 03:48:34.516
Few of our clients know how the
child welfare system works which

03:48:35.418 --> 03:48:37.452
we refer to as the family
regulation system and so many

03:48:39.989 --> 03:48:42.757
others have referred to today.
They don't know how that system

03:48:43.920 --> 03:48:45.860
works before they come to court
and meet us on the first day.

03:48:46.195 --> 03:48:48.195
They don't know their rights

03:48:49.833 --> 03:48:51.833
during an investigation.

03:48:52.302 --> 03:48:54.337
You just engaged with MISS
Lauter about the coercive

03:48:54.337 --> 03:48:57.272
control of the system.
That is something we hear from

03:48:58.875 --> 03:49:00.175
clients over and over and over
again.

03:49:02.812 --> 03:49:05.613
Every time a worker speaks with
a parent, there is a threat

03:49:08.151 --> 03:49:10.151
looming in the air of a

03:49:10.687 --> 03:49:12.588
potential child removal or a
continued separation.

03:49:14.324 --> 03:49:15.624
>> lopsided power.
>> correct.

03:49:18.928 --> 03:49:21.663
>> completely lopsided.
>> yeah.
We need to address that.

03:49:23.990 --> 03:49:25.990
We need to come up with

03:49:25.969 --> 03:49:28.637
solutions that are addressing
that control and that lob sided

03:49:29.720 --> 03:49:31.440
power dynamic.
The family regulation system as

03:49:32.742 --> 03:49:35.430
we have also heard today over
and over disproportionately

03:49:35.578 --> 03:49:37.780
harms black and brown
communities in new york.

03:49:37.880 --> 03:49:39.981
But more than that, it was built
to do that.

03:49:42.190 --> 03:49:44.186
The system is designed to punish
bad parents and save children

03:49:44.588 --> 03:49:46.588
from their own parents.

03:49:47.290 --> 03:49:49.925
In reality, the vast majority of
indicated cases of mall

03:49:50.560 --> 03:49:53.362
treatment are for poverty
related neglect and the system

03:49:53.796 --> 03:49:56.498
itself delivers more
trauma-and-harm to children

03:49:56.966 --> 03:49:59.401
through separation, surveillance
and control than their parent

03:50:00.103 --> 03:50:02.103
ever could.

03:50:02.639 --> 03:50:04.639
In acs investigation is a

03:50:04.641 --> 03:50:07.900
confusing, terrifying and
destabilizing process for

03:50:07.544 --> 03:50:10.120
families with the threat of
potential separation looming.

03:50:10.947 --> 03:50:13.382
Investigations are invasive.
They involve repeated

03:50:16.786 --> 03:50:18.786
unannounced visits to families

03:50:19.256 --> 03:50:21.991
homes, interviews with the
family, strip searches of

03:50:22.158 --> 03:50:24.560
children, intrusive home
inspections and drug and alcohol

03:50:24.661 --> 03:50:26.661
screens for parents.

03:50:26.763 --> 03:50:28.797
These investigations place
significant stress on families

03:50:32.101 --> 03:50:33.735
and create trauma in and of
themselves.

03:50:35.205 --> 03:50:37.205
Separation prolonged court

03:50:37.774 --> 03:50:39.774
involvement, similarly harms

03:50:40.110 --> 03:50:41.610
families and strains family
stability.

03:50:42.312 --> 03:50:44.647
We're calling on the state to
reduce the reach and harm to

03:50:45.849 --> 03:50:47.849
black and brown communities that

03:50:48.718 --> 03:50:50.319
results from family regulation
involvement.

03:50:51.120 --> 03:50:53.956
Reduce unnecessary family
separation and empower black and

03:50:55.459 --> 03:50:57.159
brown parents in the following
ways.

03:50:58.361 --> 03:51:00.396
first we are calling on the
state it to fas and draft

03:51:01.298 --> 03:51:03.666
legislation creating more
opportunity statewide for early

03:51:04.968 --> 03:51:06.769
defense services for families
providing representation for

03:51:09.172 --> 03:51:11.172
parents during an investigation.

03:51:13.744 --> 03:51:16.512
We are also calling on the
state -- .

03:51:16.813 --> 03:51:19.820
>> let's talk about that
particular one.

03:51:19.820 --> 03:51:21.820
>> absolutely.

03:51:22.285 --> 03:51:24.285
>> we are also calling on the

03:51:24.454 --> 03:51:27.356
assembly and and the senate to
pass the family miranda bill,

03:51:27.658 --> 03:51:29.658
the confidential reporting

03:51:29.893 --> 03:51:31.727
little and the informed consent
bill.

03:51:32.729 --> 03:51:34.897
Given the time limits I'm going
to focus on two of thieves

03:51:35.232 --> 03:51:37.199
action items providing a system
of early defense throughout the

03:51:38.101 --> 03:51:40.101
state and passing the miranda

03:51:40.837 --> 03:51:42.671
bill, since 2019cfr and the
other new york city family

03:51:43.373 --> 03:51:46.420
defense providers have been able
to assist parents under

03:51:47.770 --> 03:51:48.678
investigation thanks to new
york -- some new york city

03:51:49.113 --> 03:51:51.113
council funding, but thousands

03:51:52.150 --> 03:51:54.417
of families are investigated by
acs each year that were unable

03:51:54.551 --> 03:51:56.551
to serve currently.

03:51:56.553 --> 03:51:58.553
Our social workers and attorneys

03:51:58.755 --> 03:52:01.356
have been able to guide our
clients through their

03:52:01.357 --> 03:52:03.493
investigations, identify
appropriate resources for

03:52:04.194 --> 03:52:07.960
families and assist our clients
in speaking to family regulation

03:52:07.598 --> 03:52:08.865
workers about the needs of their
families.

03:52:10.200 --> 03:52:13.200
In none of these cases has acs
suggested its investigation has

03:52:13.270 --> 03:52:15.270
been hampered nor has it been.

03:52:16.720 --> 03:52:18.707
We have prevented family
separation in 70 percent of the

03:52:19.443 --> 03:52:22.780
kaitions we've handled and
avoided court intervention in 30

03:52:23.113 --> 03:52:25.648
percent of the cases.
extending these services to all

03:52:26.550 --> 03:52:28.951
families is likely to save the
state considerable money and

03:52:30.987 --> 03:52:32.721
more importantly reduce
separation and racial harm.

03:52:34.324 --> 03:52:36.191
>> just so I have that, so your
record indicates that if there

03:52:37.761 --> 03:52:39.761
is a lawyer present 70 percent

03:52:40.965 --> 03:52:43.866
of the time, that the families
stay together.
>> yes.
>> okay.

03:52:45.350 --> 03:52:46.836
Couldn't be more clear than
that.
Okay.

03:52:47.971 --> 03:52:50.906
Regarding the miranda bill, most
parents investigated by acs do

03:52:51.508 --> 03:52:53.508
not know that they have a right

03:52:53.743 --> 03:52:56.646
to speak to an attorney nor the
means to access one.
That is why it is so important

03:52:57.348 --> 03:52:59.916
not only to provide funding for
early defense but to make sure

03:53:01.850 --> 03:53:03.453
parents are informed of their
rights and ability to seek out

03:53:03.787 --> 03:53:05.454
an attorney during an
investigation.

03:53:05.889 --> 03:53:07.889
Families already have a number

03:53:08.392 --> 03:53:10.526
of rights during a family
regulation investigation.

03:53:11.194 --> 03:53:13.194
But those rights are meaningless

03:53:13.698 --> 03:53:16.660
if parents are unaware of them.
Parents have the right to know

03:53:16.500 --> 03:53:18.334
what allegations are being
investigated.

03:53:19.136 --> 03:53:21.637
To refuse to disclose
information or submit to a drug

03:53:23.106 --> 03:53:25.408
screen without a court order,
parents have the right to spheek

03:53:26.760 --> 03:53:28.677
to tan attorney, to know that
anything that they say can be

03:53:29.790 --> 03:53:31.548
used against thement.
And refuse to speak to the

03:53:32.350 --> 03:53:35.218
family regulation worker.
The family miranda bill does not

03:53:35.586 --> 03:53:38.388
create any new rights.
It simply require family

03:53:39.560 --> 03:53:41.824
regulation workers to notify the
black and brown parents who make

03:53:42.590 --> 03:53:44.590
up 90 percent of investigations

03:53:45.696 --> 03:53:48.198
of their preexisting ones.
Information is power.

03:53:49.767 --> 03:53:51.767
Acf and ocfs oppose sharing this

03:53:51.936 --> 03:53:54.437
information and power with black
and brown parents, to confront

03:53:55.573 --> 03:53:57.407
the systemic racism.
Family regulation system the

03:53:58.243 --> 03:54:00.209
state must acknowledge that any
opposition to providing

03:54:01.110 --> 03:54:03.746
information to black and brown
parents is a weapon used to

03:54:05.483 --> 03:54:06.950
control them and is
fundamentally racist.

03:54:07.552 --> 03:54:09.552
Any opposition keeps parents in
the dark.

03:54:10.521 --> 03:54:12.589
It denies respect to those
parents and families.

03:54:13.991 --> 03:54:16.225
>> black and brown parents
should be informed of their

03:54:16.360 --> 03:54:18.360
rights and be able to exercise

03:54:19.596 --> 03:54:21.330
them just as other more families
with means are able to.

03:54:22.800 --> 03:54:24.901
>> can I jump in.
>> yes.

03:54:25.436 --> 03:54:27.436
>> I understand and agree, I

03:54:28.973 --> 03:54:31.708
have talked to acs and ocfs
about these topics, never once

03:54:32.760 --> 03:54:34.510
did anybody say the families
should not know their rights.

03:54:35.379 --> 03:54:37.480
The issue comes down
differently, this is tough stuff

03:54:38.315 --> 03:54:40.315
but it comes down to timing of

03:54:44.550 --> 03:54:46.289
when their rights are z
explained to the parents but we

03:54:48.893 --> 03:54:50.893
have to figure out a mechanism.

03:54:51.362 --> 03:54:54.130
But yeah, I have never -- just
for the record, I never heard

03:54:55.499 --> 03:54:58.168
any from acs or ocfs or any of
my colleagues in the legislature

03:54:58.369 --> 03:55:00.369
suggest that we don't want

03:55:00.538 --> 03:55:03.173
people to know their rights.
If you want to know, if you want

03:55:03.240 --> 03:55:05.240
to know the reason why this bill

03:55:05.643 --> 03:55:07.643
is not a layup, to be perfectly

03:55:07.812 --> 03:55:09.646
honest with you, it is a
political dynamic.

03:55:11.515 --> 03:55:13.717
And that is why we are taking
those bills to our colleagues is

03:55:13.717 --> 03:55:15.252
to have conversations about
them.

03:55:16.355 --> 03:55:18.388
it is about again when I
mentioned earlier, the balance

03:55:19.724 --> 03:55:22.292
between child safety and ripping
apart families, but I

03:55:22.360 --> 03:55:24.270
understand, we are going to keep
working on it.

03:55:25.896 --> 03:55:27.896
But this is a political issue we

03:55:28.365 --> 03:55:30.833
are dealing with as opposed to
institutionlely someone saying

03:55:31.803 --> 03:55:34.472
yeah, we shouldn't do that and
not solicitying, that is not

03:55:34.472 --> 03:55:36.472
happening.

03:55:36.874 --> 03:55:38.508
>> I understand that that
is -- that you are committed to

03:55:39.911 --> 03:55:42.120
still passing this bill and we
absolutely appreciate that, that

03:55:43.681 --> 03:55:45.681
you are committed to this.

03:55:49.870 --> 03:55:51.922
And I think that by acs and ocfs
pushing back and not wanting

03:55:52.757 --> 03:55:54.757
parents to have their rights at

03:55:55.793 --> 03:55:58.261
the first step, they are, it is
being disingenuous to say they

03:55:59.163 --> 03:56:01.164
are not opposed to parents
having that I rights.

03:56:01.932 --> 03:56:04.901
They are opposed to parents
having their rights.
They are opposed to parents

03:56:05.602 --> 03:56:07.839
knowing their rights at day one
when that worker new yorks on
the door.

03:56:07.839 --> 03:56:10.674
>> okay.
>> and that is crucial.

03:56:10.942 --> 03:56:12.809
And I think.
>> I appreciate that.

03:56:13.578 --> 03:56:15.578
I just want to redirect so we

03:56:17.480 --> 03:56:19.616
are clear, my decision and my
colleagues will not be based off

03:56:20.718 --> 03:56:23.486
of a recommendation from acf or
ocfs or any other agency, that

03:56:23.554 --> 03:56:25.554
is not how we roll.

03:56:25.590 --> 03:56:27.658
>> we appreciate that.
>> I'm not cool enough to say

03:56:28.993 --> 03:56:31.562
that, that is not how we
operate.
>> of course I think the point

03:56:31.562 --> 03:56:33.562
that also needs to be made is

03:56:34.198 --> 03:56:37.670
the miranda bill does not
prevent acs from doing their job

03:56:38.536 --> 03:56:40.537
or acting, if there are exhe
gent circumstances and they need

03:56:41.640 --> 03:56:43.640
to act to protect a child it

03:56:44.109 --> 03:56:46.109
only informs parents of their

03:56:46.478 --> 03:56:48.478
rights and allows them in the

03:56:48.947 --> 03:56:50.947
85% of cases that deal only with

03:56:52.583 --> 03:56:55.285
neglect, only with poverty, to
allow parents to know what they

03:56:56.721 --> 03:56:58.823
can and can't do, what they are
required to do during an

03:56:58.823 --> 03:57:00.591
investigation.
>> I appreciate that.

03:57:01.459 --> 03:57:04.428
There should be a robust
lobbying effort to my colleagues

03:57:10.201 --> 03:57:12.269
about this particular bill.
>> sure.

03:57:13.700 --> 03:57:15.839
>> the new york state assembly
and senate must take action to

03:57:16.307 --> 03:57:18.442
combat racism and provide
parents with information.

03:57:19.945 --> 03:57:22.790
Just as providing attorneys to
parents during a family

03:57:22.814 --> 03:57:24.814
regulation investigation has not

03:57:25.783 --> 03:57:27.651
hampered acs in conducting its
investigation, notifying parents

03:57:29.153 --> 03:57:32.122
of their rights will not disrupt
acs's ability to investigation

03:57:35.260 --> 03:57:36.827
and prosecute parents.
Thank you.

03:57:37.996 --> 03:57:40.664
Thank you for all your work, we
will bring up the next panel.

03:57:40.665 --> 03:57:43.330
I want to talk to you about
that.
>> absolutely.

03:57:45.503 --> 03:57:47.503
>> thank you very much.

03:57:49.140 --> 03:57:51.140
The next panel, heather imperial

03:57:59.500 --> 03:58:01.519
and alisa Mccoy.
No worries, people actually want

03:58:01.519 --> 03:58:04.288
to hear this, hi.
>> hi, how are you.

03:58:04.489 --> 03:58:06.723
>> good, please.
>> het certificate not here.

03:58:08.126 --> 03:58:10.595
>> my name is alisa Mccoy.
And I am an impacted parent and

03:58:11.863 --> 03:58:14.732
a member of the parents sledge
slative action network, thank

03:58:17.402 --> 03:58:19.402
you for the opportunity to let

03:58:19.404 --> 03:58:21.404
me testify today.

03:58:23.574 --> 03:58:26.543
I am a certified 911 world trade
center survivor and now I'm

03:58:27.412 --> 03:58:29.412
happy to say a cancer survivor

03:58:30.534 --> 03:58:31.912
at that.
>> amen.
>> thank you.
While I was fighting the cancer

03:58:32.684 --> 03:58:34.684
and going through chemo,

03:58:34.786 --> 03:58:37.721
radiation, recovering from the
surgeries, acs took my twin sons

03:58:37.722 --> 03:58:40.357
from me.
By forceful removal from the

03:58:41.593 --> 03:58:43.627
home without a court order of
removal and they continue to

03:58:45.597 --> 03:58:47.640
harass me, and my children for
years.

03:58:48.367 --> 03:58:50.801
And in 2017 I tried to pick my
sons up for school for an

03:58:50.803 --> 03:58:52.303
appointment for their
pediatrician.

03:58:52.804 --> 03:58:54.804
I signed in and I waited in the

03:58:55.840 --> 03:58:58.375
office for them to come out.
40 minutes later the school

03:58:58.943 --> 03:59:01.211
couldn't find my children.
Finally when my boys came into

03:59:01.847 --> 03:59:04.549
the office, but not the other.
I started getting upset.

03:59:04.883 --> 03:59:07.352
I was concerned that they
couldn't locate my child for

03:59:07.352 --> 03:59:09.920
nearly an hour.
I realized I was able to find

03:59:11.122 --> 03:59:13.570
him using the location sharing
app on my phone.

03:59:14.590 --> 03:59:16.590
And what I saw is that he was

03:59:16.940 --> 03:59:18.729
off of school grounds in the
woods across the street.

03:59:19.298 --> 03:59:21.699
The school principal could see
that I was upset and was going

03:59:22.367 --> 03:59:24.367
to file a complaint.

03:59:24.536 --> 03:59:26.437
In order to protect themselves
and discredit me the school

03:59:27.439 --> 03:59:30.341
called in a complaint to acs
saying that I was being erratic

03:59:30.475 --> 03:59:33.444
and delusional.
This triggered surveillance by

03:59:35.880 --> 03:59:37.800
acs that has lasted almost 5
years.

03:59:38.150 --> 03:59:40.586
A case worker came to my house,
I was never informed of my

03:59:40.586 --> 03:59:42.586
rights.

03:59:42.721 --> 03:59:44.488
So I welcomed her in and told
her earnings.

03:59:45.557 --> 03:59:47.458
I actually begged her to open an
investigation into the school.

03:59:48.560 --> 03:59:51.128
at first she a imreed that
allegations were nonsense but

03:59:51.930 --> 03:59:53.930
then another anonymous complaint

03:59:54.166 --> 03:59:56.166
was made two weeks later.

03:59:56.168 --> 03:59:58.168
That is when they took my boys.

03:59:58.437 --> 04:00:00.539
Acs came to me without
allegations of mental health

04:00:00.539 --> 04:00:02.539
issues.

04:00:03.975 --> 04:00:05.943
They had no business even being
inform involved in my family

04:00:06.678 --> 04:00:09.347
because I just entered into a
joint custody agreement with my

04:00:09.347 --> 04:00:11.415
husband which was on file with
the court.

04:00:12.351 --> 04:00:14.351
But acs kept harassing my sons

04:00:14.653 --> 04:00:15.853
and me, they were only 13 at the
time.

04:00:16.655 --> 04:00:18.655
When I tried to assert my rights

04:00:19.124 --> 04:00:21.124
to not speak with the acs case

04:00:22.661 --> 04:00:24.830
worker sue ann simmons without a
lawyer -- .
>> keep going.

04:00:24.830 --> 04:00:27.766
>> rolling with it twns I
appreciate it.
>> maybe you can roll with ing

04:00:27.766 --> 04:00:30.168
thises.
>> well, I was just readingk I

04:00:30.503 --> 04:00:32.503
was roing with the reading,

04:00:33.172 --> 04:00:35.172
staying on record.

04:00:35.207 --> 04:00:37.410
>> with the acs blank without a
lawyer.

04:00:39.177 --> 04:00:41.212
They retaliated, they filed a
neglect petition.

04:00:42.414 --> 04:00:44.414
An exparte temporary restraining

04:00:44.516 --> 04:00:46.516
order, acs against me, for two

04:00:48.320 --> 04:00:50.623
of my three children and not a
court -- another court order for

04:00:50.623 --> 04:00:53.910
removal with the court.
And on that same day but later

04:00:55.127 --> 04:00:58.950
on that night at 6 P.M. Cops
kicked down my door and an acs

04:00:59.932 --> 04:01:02.333
case worker removed my kids.
There has been no real

04:01:03.100 --> 04:01:05.470
investigation that could have
possibly have justified them

04:01:07.106 --> 04:01:09.440
thinking that my kids were in
imminent risk of harm.

04:01:09.675 --> 04:01:12.176
They didn't even know that I had
an older son or that I was

04:01:13.450 --> 04:01:15.450
fighting cancer, but they ripped

04:01:15.514 --> 04:01:17.815
my boys out of their home at
night right before they turned

04:01:18.750 --> 04:01:21.487
14, this was traumatizing to
this day, acs will not stop

04:01:21.487 --> 04:01:23.487
until they are 18.

04:01:24.613 --> 04:01:26.491
Have I made -- I still am
fighting with acs, I have

04:01:28.661 --> 04:01:30.661
finally won my court case, APRIL

04:01:31.663 --> 04:01:33.798
21s, 2021, they finally
dismissed my case.

04:01:34.266 --> 04:01:36.133
But the acs case worker wanted
to keep coming.

04:01:36.735 --> 04:01:38.269
She told me she would be there
on monday.

04:01:38.971 --> 04:01:41.606
I informed her this is back in
APRIL that my boys have now

04:01:41.707 --> 04:01:43.707
turned 18.

04:01:43.843 --> 04:01:45.843
You need to stop this.

04:01:46.110 --> 04:01:48.110
And she had, actually the fourth

04:01:48.130 --> 04:01:50.948
worker, who has made many
recommendations seeing there is

04:01:51.917 --> 04:01:53.484
no reason to keep coming twice a
month.

04:01:54.353 --> 04:01:57.121
Especially during the pandemic.
But yet they came.

04:01:57.690 --> 04:01:59.958
They came anyway.
>> can I ask you a question.

04:02:00.126 --> 04:02:02.128
>> are they legally allowed to
come and check on a parent after

04:02:02.128 --> 04:02:04.729
18.
They can't be.

04:02:06.650 --> 04:02:08.734
>> no, not after I notified her
they were 18, it stopped.

04:02:08.734 --> 04:02:11.335
But you have to remember, this
is five years of this.

04:02:12.471 --> 04:02:15.374
I will stay on script, ask you
me anything.

04:02:16.375 --> 04:02:18.375
It was I have a flu court day on

04:02:18.844 --> 04:02:21.179
the 22nd when I had ocfs
here before I wanted to really

04:02:21.347 --> 04:02:24.115
know about the guidelines they
are going to put out about the

04:02:24.883 --> 04:02:26.883
new legislation that was put

04:02:27.119 --> 04:02:29.119
into order that you can't be put

04:02:30.556 --> 04:02:33.250
as indicated on this scr for 28
years while you have an ongoing

04:02:33.526 --> 04:02:35.526
family court investigation.

04:02:36.280 --> 04:02:38.663
What I was put on it, I will go
back to my script s that okay.

04:02:39.598 --> 04:02:41.598
I was put on it, I am guilty,

04:02:42.101 --> 04:02:44.102
even though I was found
innocent.
Still fighting this.

04:02:44.436 --> 04:02:46.405
>> by the way, part of the
reason for that legislation and

04:02:46.772 --> 04:02:48.772
why we are focused on that issue

04:02:48.808 --> 04:02:51.900
is that is a life destroyer, if
you are on.

04:02:52.211 --> 04:02:54.212
>> I am in the loophole with the
lowest change but it is not

04:02:54.714 --> 04:02:57.649
going to go into effect until
JANUARY 20222 an when it

04:02:58.551 --> 04:03:00.952
happened to knee an a krrk s
case worker within 60 days know

04:03:01.520 --> 04:03:03.221
better than a family court
judge.

04:03:03.555 --> 04:03:06.123
That is the way it went down.
And some cedable evidence means

04:03:06.793 --> 04:03:09.561
they got mid address right, that
is it, that is all they need.

04:03:10.463 --> 04:03:12.164
They changed -- I mean that was
all changed, thank you for

04:03:12.532 --> 04:03:14.533
having that changed but that
doesn't, isn't retro.

04:03:14.533 --> 04:03:16.501
>> I understand.
>> okay.
There was no real investigation

04:03:17.236 --> 04:03:20.104
that could have possibly
justified them thinking that my

04:03:20.906 --> 04:03:23.400
kids were, fortunately when they
took my children they brought

04:03:23.843 --> 04:03:26.712
them to a hospital that had
their insurance on file.

04:03:27.614 --> 04:03:30.150
Which listed their father's
contact information.

04:03:30.483 --> 04:03:33.386
The hospital contacted my
husband who was able to take

04:03:33.386 --> 04:03:35.787
custody.
If the hospital hadn't had

04:03:36.355 --> 04:03:38.355
called them acs would have put

04:03:38.457 --> 04:03:40.457
my boys into foster care.

04:03:40.659 --> 04:03:43.462
There is no primea faishia
evidence in my case, have I no

04:03:43.796 --> 04:03:45.796
history of mental health issues.

04:03:46.899 --> 04:03:48.899
But my court appointed lawyer

04:03:50.436 --> 04:03:52.504
failed to object to aca -- acs's
request for continued court

04:03:53.939 --> 04:03:56.441
ordered supervision of me and my
children.
>> can I stop you.

04:03:56.809 --> 04:03:58.809
>> go ahead.

04:03:59.712 --> 04:04:01.712
>> the last thing you mentioned

04:04:01.815 --> 04:04:04.249
about the hospital was
contacted.
>> uh-huh.

04:04:04.484 --> 04:04:06.484
>> so you are not aware of or

04:04:06.586 --> 04:04:08.586
the lawyers again any arc cs

04:04:09.188 --> 04:04:11.723
requirement that they have to
call the other spouse.

04:04:12.224 --> 04:04:14.893
>> we had, had they had done a
real investigation acs did not

04:04:16.280 --> 04:04:18.864
even need to, one kick down pie
door with the cops without a

04:04:19.499 --> 04:04:21.650
court order of removal.
Two, even get involved in my

04:04:21.650 --> 04:04:23.802
family.
All they had to merely do was

04:04:25.304 --> 04:04:27.806
threaten to take them because
custody was already established

04:04:28.741 --> 04:04:30.609
and filed with the supreme
court.

04:04:30.876 --> 04:04:32.876
And accessible to family court.

04:04:34.314 --> 04:04:36.314
And any normal investigation,

04:04:36.883 --> 04:04:38.883
any case worker would look to

04:04:39.319 --> 04:04:42.880
one call the pediatrician, two,
check the family dynamics, and

04:04:42.880 --> 04:04:44.880
with that they would have known

04:04:44.123 --> 04:04:46.625
the custody was joint custody
with my husband.

04:04:48.628 --> 04:04:50.996
So he could have just taken the
custody while the court -- while

04:04:52.980 --> 04:04:54.980
they filed this neglect petition

04:04:54.334 --> 04:04:56.334
instead of removing them, okay,

04:04:56.402 --> 04:04:59.138
this will explain it.
>> I'm sorry.

04:05:00.390 --> 04:05:02.390
So is it is your impression that

04:05:02.175 --> 04:05:04.843
acs is making decisions without
the full understanding.

04:05:05.511 --> 04:05:07.579
>> oh, yes, they absolutely
proceeded without any

04:05:07.713 --> 04:05:09.713
information about my family at

04:05:10.283 --> 04:05:12.885
all whatever so shall can -- so
ever, no investigation, have I

04:05:15.789 --> 04:05:17.789
affidavits from my pediatrician,

04:05:17.957 --> 04:05:20.859
supreme court currently, it it
was trevored to the appellate

04:05:23.290 --> 04:05:25.290
decision, I am not a lawyer.

04:05:25.665 --> 04:05:28.634
Paralegal and I thought I knew a a
little bit about my
constitutional rights and the

04:05:30.403 --> 04:05:32.403
law until I met this acs we

04:05:33.640 --> 04:05:36.108
hemmette, this navigating
family -- court.

04:05:36.176 --> 04:05:38.410
So where was I.
They didn't let me out from

04:05:39.412 --> 04:05:41.313
under their microscope until my
kids were 18.

04:05:42.848 --> 04:05:44.848
My sons were harassed by acs

04:05:44.985 --> 04:05:46.986
throughout all of high school.
T was embarrassing.

04:05:47.454 --> 04:05:49.588
It removed them from their class
it did not stop.

04:05:49.656 --> 04:05:51.957
They did great.
And I'm very proud of them.

04:05:52.292 --> 04:05:54.292
This they are both in college

04:05:55.461 --> 04:05:57.461
and my third one is a third year

04:05:59.520 --> 04:06:01.433
carpenter apprentice in the
union.
But who knows what their lives
might have been like without acs

04:06:01.768 --> 04:06:03.768
looming over them every other

04:06:04.838 --> 04:06:07.600
week getting called missing
classes.
I request continue to feel the

04:06:08.740 --> 04:06:10.843
impact of this too because even
on my case was unfoundedk mi

04:06:11.770 --> 04:06:13.770
still on the registry.

04:06:13.246 --> 04:06:15.246
I was supposed to start work at

04:06:16.115 --> 04:06:18.184
the brooklyn drk a's office as a
paralegal.
I went through the panel

04:06:18.184 --> 04:06:20.220
interview.
The reference checks,

04:06:20.220 --> 04:06:23.220
everything, but at the final
step in the hr process where

04:06:26.359 --> 04:06:27.593
they check the scr they went
silent.

04:06:28.628 --> 04:06:30.628
This isn't a hypothetical job

04:06:31.297 --> 04:06:33.533
I'm losing, it st really
affecting every aspect of my

04:06:33.533 --> 04:06:36.301
life.
This all started because of a

04:06:37.538 --> 04:06:39.972
bogus complaint designed to
discredit me but ballooned into

04:06:40.941 --> 04:06:43.142
five years of court orders and
surveillance, so many salaries

04:06:44.277 --> 04:06:46.277
were funded by my case.

04:06:46.379 --> 04:06:48.379
It was wasted so much time and

04:06:48.882 --> 04:06:51.784
money, it dawsed me to postpone
surgeries and treatments for my
cancer.

04:06:52.151 --> 04:06:54.151
The state needs to recognize

04:06:54.221 --> 04:06:55.655
that acs is not helping families
like mine.

04:06:56.957 --> 04:06:59.126
It is burdennening us and making
our lives harder for parents and

04:06:59.126 --> 04:07:01.126
kids.

04:07:03.263 --> 04:07:05.231
We need better access to good
lauers, -- lawyers and we need to

04:07:06.320 --> 04:07:08.670
know our rights to protect
ourselves and our families.

04:07:08.334 --> 04:07:10.334
The rights that parents already

04:07:12.273 --> 04:07:13.940
have established but
intentionally not stated it our

04:07:15.420 --> 04:07:17.420
parns it at the onset of the

04:07:17.511 --> 04:07:19.511
investigation by the acs case

04:07:20.460 --> 04:07:22.681
worker is identical to miranda
rights in a criminal proceeding.

04:07:23.883 --> 04:07:25.117
You have the right to remain
silent.

04:07:26.850 --> 04:07:28.854
Anything you say can and will be
twisted and used against you in

04:07:28.956 --> 04:07:31.791
the family court of law.
And that is how they proceed.

04:07:32.426 --> 04:07:34.426
That is how they proceed and it

04:07:34.561 --> 04:07:37.290
goes on.
They are relentless.

04:07:37.898 --> 04:07:40.666
You know, I cannot get work.
I cannot get a job because I'm

04:07:42.669 --> 04:07:44.703
on this registry, I can't
volunteer on a mit california

04:07:46.173 --> 04:07:47.574
pain because I am on this
registry.

04:07:48.275 --> 04:07:50.275
>> it is probably a good thing.

04:07:53.213 --> 04:07:55.213
>> well, I -- I did I little bit

04:07:55.282 --> 04:07:58.184
of work, I happen to have known
the judge that I was campaigning
for.

04:07:58.218 --> 04:08:00.218
But legally they would have to

04:08:01.154 --> 04:08:04.560
put me through the scr
screening.
You didn't know that, when you

04:08:04.425 --> 04:08:07.126
are running for office, you will
find out.

04:08:08.862 --> 04:08:11.597
Every aspect to the da's office,
not only schools, not only

04:08:11.932 --> 04:08:14.867
working as a teacher, in a
hospital.
I cannot get any reputable

04:08:15.602 --> 04:08:17.602
position anywhere, everywhere.

04:08:18.204 --> 04:08:20.372
>> the scr is designed so people
can check it.

04:08:21.609 --> 04:08:24.377
>> I spent my lifesavings
defending my name and clearing

04:08:24.712 --> 04:08:26.712
my name and getting my kids

04:08:27.514 --> 04:08:29.882
back, they were gone for 11
months fighting the system.

04:08:31.418 --> 04:08:34.120
We were all on the same side, we
were just fighting acs without

04:08:35.210 --> 04:08:37.756
is still fighting me, in court.
So I am waiting for them to file

04:08:38.359 --> 04:08:40.359
their reply papers.

04:08:40.861 --> 04:08:43.630
It just builds up my federal
case.
I don't want it to do this.

04:08:43.797 --> 04:08:46.365
I wanted to see change for
everyone.
I don't want any other parent to

04:08:46.600 --> 04:08:48.968
go through what I went through.
I don't want my children's

04:08:49.200 --> 04:08:51.671
children to go through this.
And if my oldest on with his

04:08:52.372 --> 04:08:54.840
girlfriend does have a child,
I'm not allowed to legally pick

04:08:55.742 --> 04:08:57.143
them up from daycare at this
point.

04:08:58.546 --> 04:08:59.913
The effect is generational
poverty.

04:09:01.182 --> 04:09:03.182
They want me dependent on the

04:09:04.718 --> 04:09:06.718
welfare system and not employed.

04:09:07.654 --> 04:09:09.755
And you know, I am made to take
out loans and everything I can

04:09:09.990 --> 04:09:11.990
for my children, that is all we

04:09:12.426 --> 04:09:13.959
want is the best, they are
traumatizing my children.

04:09:14.896 --> 04:09:16.630
My kids, they have nightmares
over this.

04:09:18.332 --> 04:09:20.633
They were removed forcefully
screaming, almost 14 years old,

04:09:20.935 --> 04:09:22.569
yet they didn't know I had a 16
year old.

04:09:23.137 --> 04:09:24.904
That was, you know, under the
same custody.

04:09:26.273 --> 04:09:28.808
So miranda rights would, had I
known my rights, this wouldn't

04:09:29.242 --> 04:09:31.644
have gone on for five years.
I would have asserted them

04:09:31.879 --> 04:09:33.914
immediately and it would have
been an end.

04:09:34.682 --> 04:09:36.682
And access to a good lawyer or

04:09:37.585 --> 04:09:39.585
any lawyer at that point.

04:09:40.721 --> 04:09:43.289
>> I appreciate it.
>> one last, you know what,

04:09:43.824 --> 04:09:45.910
thank you so much for your
testimony.

04:09:46.760 --> 04:09:49.529
If we need to ask you, this was
really, really helpful.

04:09:50.131 --> 04:09:52.132
>> thank you, thank you, miranda
rights are necessary for all,

04:09:52.667 --> 04:09:54.801
thank you.
They are already there and they

04:09:55.690 --> 04:09:56.870
are free, that is the best part.
>> thank you very much.

04:10:00.207 --> 04:10:02.876
Thank you.
Okay.

04:10:02.876 --> 04:10:04.876
MISS Imperial doesn't seem it to

04:10:07.315 --> 04:10:09.315
be with us, the next panel,

04:10:13.454 --> 04:10:15.454
halimah washington, naashia

04:10:15.623 --> 04:10:17.623
bethis, and raye bar beera I

04:10:17.925 --> 04:10:20.126
hope I didn't butcher your
names.

04:10:26.300 --> 04:10:27.601
>> you did.
>> halimah.

04:10:29.136 --> 04:10:31.136
And naashia.

04:10:34.175 --> 04:10:36.175
>> all right, got it.
>> good afternoon, good morning

04:10:37.745 --> 04:10:40.613
to everyone in attendance today.
I want to first start off by

04:10:41.115 --> 04:10:43.115
introducing myself.

04:10:43.451 --> 04:10:45.451
I am a parent organizer at rise

04:10:47.121 --> 04:10:49.923
and a mother impacted by the
child welfare system also known

04:10:50.224 --> 04:10:52.224
ass family policing system.

04:10:52.393 --> 04:10:54.393
Rise is a community of survivors

04:10:55.462 --> 04:10:57.563
dedicated to challenging the
prevailing mar tiff about

04:10:57.664 --> 04:11:00.330
parents whose children into the
foster system and dismantling

04:11:00.335 --> 04:11:02.703
the system and creating
communities that offer

04:11:03.671 --> 04:11:06.273
collective care and support.
We envision communities that are

04:11:07.608 --> 04:11:09.776
free from injusticek family
policing and separation and one

04:11:11.112 --> 04:11:13.112
that cultivates new ways of

04:11:13.714 --> 04:11:16.820
preventing and addressing harm.
We imagine a radical commitment

04:11:16.551 --> 04:11:18.551
to ensuring that all families

04:11:18.620 --> 04:11:20.620
have what they need to live

04:11:21.550 --> 04:11:22.889
beyond survival and truly
thrive.

04:11:24.158 --> 04:11:26.259
>> today I'm highlighting the
support networks and policy

04:11:27.228 --> 04:11:30.290
changes that families say will
aid in thriving in new york
city.

04:11:30.297 --> 04:11:32.297
I want to start by sharing some

04:11:33.301 --> 04:11:35.637
crucial findings from rise's
participate tore action research

04:11:35.637 --> 04:11:37.637
study.

04:11:39.140 --> 04:11:41.140
We released a few weeks ago.

04:11:41.809 --> 04:11:43.809
Over the last year parents at

04:11:43.911 --> 04:11:46.646
rise held focus groups with 48
parents, we conducted surveys

04:11:47.148 --> 04:11:49.148
with 58 parents in new york city

04:11:49.283 --> 04:11:51.852
to document their experiences
with the family policing system

04:11:52.754 --> 04:11:55.220
and their visions for community
investments that will support

04:11:56.900 --> 04:11:57.391
families without stm
involvement.

04:11:58.359 --> 04:12:01.940
Moar over our research report is
an extension of over 300 stories

04:12:02.330 --> 04:12:03.597
from parents that rise has
published.

04:12:04.699 --> 04:12:07.367
That also share the perspective,
that also share the pervasive

04:12:07.868 --> 04:12:10.170
arm and trauma that families
have experienced at the hands of

04:12:11.390 --> 04:12:13.390
the system.

04:12:13.208 --> 04:12:16.176
Our report and unavoidable
system the harms of family

04:12:16.844 --> 04:12:18.844
policing and parents division in

04:12:19.113 --> 04:12:21.715
investing in community care is
highly relevant.
Since the purpose of today's

04:12:22.984 --> 04:12:25.285
hearing is to examine the child
welfare system including ways in

04:12:25.821 --> 04:12:27.821
which families initially

04:12:28.556 --> 04:12:31.910
interact with and enter the
system.
Research participate were

04:12:31.192 --> 04:12:33.927
primarily black and brown
parents in highly impacted

04:12:34.495 --> 04:12:36.495
communities with life histories

04:12:36.664 --> 04:12:39.233
of acs contact.
Contact including thorough

04:12:39.233 --> 04:12:41.835
investigations, court ordered
services, preventive services,

04:12:42.470 --> 04:12:45.339
the removal of their children
and termination of their
parental rights.

04:12:45.707 --> 04:12:47.707
One thing that became

04:12:47.909 --> 04:12:49.910
increasingly clear is that acs
is an unavoidable system for

04:12:50.612 --> 04:12:52.612
black and brown communities.

04:12:53.581 --> 04:12:55.816
And that is deeply
intervected -- interconnected
with other systems that families

04:12:56.350 --> 04:12:58.552
come into contact with within
their daily lives.

04:12:59.453 --> 04:13:01.453
Scales, hospitals, shelters, are

04:13:01.490 --> 04:13:03.490
some of the main places that

04:13:03.825 --> 04:13:05.825
child welfare reports are made

04:13:06.895 --> 04:13:08.729
to the state register, as
mandated reporters, the focus is

04:13:09.564 --> 04:13:11.932
on calling cases of possible
child abuse and or neglect

04:13:13.468 --> 04:13:15.736
rather than offering support to
families.

04:13:16.170 --> 04:13:18.939
Mandating reporting uses the
threat of child welfare

04:13:19.408 --> 04:13:21.809
involvement and family
separation against families when

04:13:22.410 --> 04:13:24.645
in many cases families are
struggling with issues related

04:13:26.581 --> 04:13:29.820
it to poverty and socioeconomic
status.
The possibility of reporting

04:13:31.986 --> 04:13:34.688
about called in is always there.
Rise's parent shakira page

04:13:36.910 --> 04:13:38.910
shares one example of just how

04:13:39.928 --> 04:13:42.596
scared parents are of asking for
help, out of fear a call for

04:13:43.598 --> 04:13:45.598
help will lead to an arc cs

04:13:45.900 --> 04:13:48.402
state, she states I was in a
smell ter with three kids and

04:13:48.603 --> 04:13:50.937
didn't have food, I didn't tell
anybody because I was scared to

04:13:52.106 --> 04:13:54.142
get an acs case.
Wability peanut butter for six

04:13:54.142 --> 04:13:56.944
days.
I wasn't aware of any pantries.

04:13:58.213 --> 04:14:01.810
If there was peer support or
somebody that wasn't a mandated

04:14:01.616 --> 04:14:03.350
reporter I would have asked for
help.

04:14:04.252 --> 04:14:06.988
Acs, the city's child and
welfare agency has the power to

04:14:06.988 --> 04:14:09.356
remove and strip children from
their care imifers and even

04:14:10.358 --> 04:14:12.527
charge with providing thorough
investigations of abuse and

04:14:13.562 --> 04:14:16.130
neglect in order to promote the
safety and well-being of
children.

04:14:17.365 --> 04:14:18.866
Guess what, this is far from the
truth.

04:14:19.834 --> 04:14:21.834
And our experiences.

04:14:23.104 --> 04:14:25.172
This isn't the work of your cps
workers mine didn't see the

04:14:26.407 --> 04:14:29.210
serious be of my three year
olson's iron burns he sustained

04:14:30.579 --> 04:14:32.880
from an unsupervised visit.
Maybe because the worker stated

04:14:34.149 --> 04:14:36.149
she was too concerned about

04:14:36.151 --> 04:14:38.151
being home or finding a new job

04:14:39.275 --> 04:14:41.880
anyway.
The same superpowerful agency
gets it wrong more likely than
not.

04:14:45.962 --> 04:14:47.995
What happened to acs's five key
commitments which one, no child

04:14:48.464 --> 04:14:51.265
will come into contact or be
left alone to struggle with

04:14:51.300 --> 04:14:53.300
abuse and neglect.

04:14:53.435 --> 04:14:55.603
No family who needs and wants
help to keep their children safe

04:14:57.720 --> 04:14:58.604
will be left without the help it
needs.

04:14:59.274 --> 04:15:01.308
Every child will come into
contact with the help that they

04:15:03.212 --> 04:15:06.800
need in order to be healthy and
achieve their highest potential.

04:15:07.683 --> 04:15:10.452
No child in our care leaves
without caring, committed or

04:15:10.452 --> 04:15:12.452
permanent family.

04:15:12.487 --> 04:15:14.789
And lastly, every family member
at children services and each of

04:15:15.190 --> 04:15:17.891
their partner agencies can
expect guidance, respect and

04:15:17.999 --> 04:15:20.227
emotional support.
We know that is not to be true

04:15:21.730 --> 04:15:23.730
so it is time for acs to take

04:15:23.899 --> 04:15:25.899
the cape off of their bag backs

04:15:26.135 --> 04:15:29.700
and put it on ours for our
resilience, strength,

04:15:29.871 --> 04:15:32.139
unconditional love for our
children, persistence and the

04:15:33.208 --> 04:15:35.576
ability to speak up for real
care we know our families need

04:15:35.744 --> 04:15:37.744
and deserve.

04:15:38.981 --> 04:15:41.616
When we think about the
pre -- what protective services

04:15:42.718 --> 04:15:44.718
lack like, we can't look to acs

04:15:44.887 --> 04:15:46.754
for solution, accessing services
can be extremely difficult.

04:15:47.220 --> 04:15:49.357
First the shame and fear
surrounding seek and help.

04:15:49.958 --> 04:15:52.920
And if by chance we get the help
that we need we are connected to

04:15:52.661 --> 04:15:54.661
services that don't even meet

04:15:54.996 --> 04:15:56.996
our family's needs or lifestyle.

04:15:57.133 --> 04:15:59.434
So much loss comes from having
an arc cs case.

04:16:00.569 --> 04:16:03.404
We also become at risk of losing
our jobs, relationships are

04:16:04.840 --> 04:16:07.642
strained and our identity as
parents are constantly

04:16:08.210 --> 04:16:10.444
questioned as we try to and a
half imait this very system.

04:16:12.213 --> 04:16:15.116
We live in fear that we will be
punished and judged for not

04:16:15.418 --> 04:16:17.519
complying with the system's una
sustainable demands.

04:16:17.853 --> 04:16:20.588
The results are devastating as
we live in fear of love losing

04:16:21.123 --> 04:16:23.624
our children or even worse never
having them returned.

04:16:24.526 --> 04:16:27.261
As one parent shared and I
quote, it is messed up my life.

04:16:28.463 --> 04:16:30.463
It has messed up my life really

04:16:30.600 --> 04:16:32.600
bad, when I got my first case it

04:16:33.169 --> 04:16:35.437
messed up my group spaces, I was
a parole officer.

04:16:36.372 --> 04:16:38.373
I was an evaluation specialist
for the board of ed.

04:16:38.440 --> 04:16:40.440
I lost those jobs.

04:16:41.110 --> 04:16:42.610
It it just messed up my life for
no reason.

04:16:43.645 --> 04:16:46.581
So it feked me emotionally in so
many ways because I was doing so

04:16:46.581 --> 04:16:49.451
well and this case happened and
I felt like I didn't need to be

04:16:49.685 --> 04:16:51.685
on this earth any more.

04:16:52.855 --> 04:16:55.323
I was really angry, end quote.
The course of our lives changes

04:16:56.525 --> 04:16:58.525
because of acs involvement so

04:16:58.660 --> 04:17:00.928
why would anyone risk asking for
help if this could happen to

04:17:01.630 --> 04:17:03.931
them as well.
Those in privileged communities

04:17:05.535 --> 04:17:08.360
do not have this type of
surveillance.

04:17:08.437 --> 04:17:11.139
Why should families be afforded
the same resources and networks

04:17:12.308 --> 04:17:15.209
of support that does not include
mandated reporters, as impacted

04:17:16.645 --> 04:17:19.347
parents we share our vision for
communicated networks which we

04:17:19.748 --> 04:17:22.160
deny fine as a set of people
and places and life that

04:17:22.840 --> 04:17:24.840
generally helps us and care for

04:17:25.722 --> 04:17:28.890
us during our difficult times.
The network might look like

04:17:28.791 --> 04:17:30.791
neighbors, friendsk families,

04:17:30.926 --> 04:17:32.926
faith-based leaders, community

04:17:33.862 --> 04:17:35.963
centers, built in associations
or coworkers.

04:17:36.899 --> 04:17:39.300
Barriers to preventive services
were amplified during covid,

04:17:39.735 --> 04:17:42.704
when times became difficult
mutual aid groups, neighbors and

04:17:43.506 --> 04:17:46.207
our communities showed up to
help us, not acs, our

04:17:49.178 --> 04:17:50.945
communities, families need well
resourced communities like

04:17:51.981 --> 04:17:54.515
affordable child care, housing,
supportive mental health care.

04:17:54.750 --> 04:17:56.750
Many parents felt that the

04:17:56.952 --> 04:17:59.322
system was impersonal,
insensitive and diminished them

04:17:59.322 --> 04:18:01.322
to just a case number.

04:18:02.240 --> 04:18:03.959
I really want to highlight some
significant impacts of new

04:18:05.761 --> 04:18:08.630
structures of care and
approaches.

04:18:08.630 --> 04:18:10.266
Parents wouldn't feel alone and
would feel security about asking

04:18:10.266 --> 04:18:12.500
for support.
There would be no shame around

04:18:12.835 --> 04:18:14.835
being human and experiencing

04:18:16.390 --> 04:18:17.239
life as it comes at you, hard
times.

04:18:18.875 --> 04:18:20.875
Rise developed a model for peer

04:18:21.944 --> 04:18:23.944
support and communities most

04:18:24.246 --> 04:18:26.915
impacted by systems involvement.
In other spaces such as criminal

04:18:28.500 --> 04:18:30.418
justice and harm reduction we've
seen peer advocacy helps to

04:18:30.853 --> 04:18:32.853
build meaningful relationships

04:18:33.389 --> 04:18:35.824
in communities and as a result
reduces interactions with and

04:18:36.859 --> 04:18:38.894
the overuse of harmful stsms
like family policing.

04:18:40.960 --> 04:18:42.960
In our peer support someone to

04:18:42.465 --> 04:18:44.265
turn to t we specifically call
for investment in peer support

04:18:46.568 --> 04:18:49.103
from folks who are not mandated
reporters.
Effective preventive measures

04:18:49.705 --> 04:18:52.608
exist and rise and other
community organizations are

04:18:53.343 --> 04:18:55.744
already doing the work.
As I end my day today I

04:18:57.847 --> 04:19:00.649
encourage you to take a deeper
dive into our reports and learn

04:19:00.783 --> 04:19:03.284
from impacted parents directly
as you have been all day.

04:19:04.820 --> 04:19:06.821
About how to invest in and
support the work other

04:19:07.560 --> 04:19:09.258
community-based organizations
and what we are doing to help

04:19:09.592 --> 04:19:12.194
our families and communities.
Thank you for your time.
>> thank you.

04:19:17.200 --> 04:19:19.200
Before you move on to the next

04:19:20.690 --> 04:19:21.369
prepared testimony, a couple of
things.

04:19:22.104 --> 04:19:24.339
First, in your mind is there a
distirntion between peer support

04:19:27.143 --> 04:19:29.143
run by acs and something else?

04:19:29.445 --> 04:19:31.445
I want to hear it on the record.

04:19:32.150 --> 04:19:34.150
I know -- I am drawingk I just

04:19:35.651 --> 04:19:38.320
want it on the record.
>> yes, anything that acs

04:19:38.854 --> 04:19:41.223
touches, there are strings
attached.
There is long and lasting

04:19:41.223 --> 04:19:43.223
trauma.

04:19:43.827 --> 04:19:45.194
We speak about this in our
support system.

04:19:45.996 --> 04:19:48.897
So we, there is real support
outside of acs.

04:19:49.999 --> 04:19:51.999
We get it, we hear about it

04:19:53.803 --> 04:19:56.771
through our research, we know
specific community-based
organizations that are doing the
work.

04:19:56.906 --> 04:19:58.606
>> also been underfunded.
>> right.

04:20:00.510 --> 04:20:02.845
>> so that is, so again, we will
look to fund these kind of

04:20:03.713 --> 04:20:05.647
groups outside of the acs system
as well.

04:20:05.749 --> 04:20:07.616
>> right.
>> and one last thing, can I see

04:20:11.888 --> 04:20:13.922
that report, the unavoidable.
>> sure I would like to see that

04:20:14.357 --> 04:20:16.357
but the name troubles me, I will

04:20:17.460 --> 04:20:19.595
be honest, this is about my own
perception, unavoidable is

04:20:19.996 --> 04:20:21.664
exactly what I don't want to
hear.

04:20:22.320 --> 04:20:24.320
Because I'm desperately trying

04:20:24.767 --> 04:20:27.369
to figure out away to avoid kids
getting involved in the child
welfare system.

04:20:27.837 --> 04:20:30.639
So we just closed off one of
those for arresting young kids,

04:20:31.374 --> 04:20:33.374
so anything that is a driver

04:20:33.576 --> 04:20:36.312
into the system has to be looked
at.
That is education, you mentioned

04:20:36.413 --> 04:20:38.882
all of it.
The hospitals.
>> yes.

04:20:38.882 --> 04:20:41.518
>> so you would, just, would you
get rid of the mandated reporter

04:20:41.518 --> 04:20:44.119
system?
>> yes.
>> thank you, I appreciate it.

04:20:44.387 --> 04:20:46.588
Thank you for your testimony.
>> thank you.

04:20:46.689 --> 04:20:48.689
>> hi, thank you, everyone.

04:20:49.725 --> 04:20:51.725
My name is hal, mah washington,

04:20:52.280 --> 04:20:53.261
thank you for those powerful
words.

04:20:58.340 --> 04:21:00.340
And just like nahashia I am here

04:21:00.737 --> 04:21:03.572
to ecothe calls for parents have
been asked for, for community

04:21:03.973 --> 04:21:06.408
support and need for policy
changes go hand-in-hand.

04:21:07.610 --> 04:21:10.579
I'm a black mama from new york
city who is directly impacted by

04:21:11.140 --> 04:21:13.317
the family policing system with
involve am going back multiple

04:21:13.317 --> 04:21:15.317
generations.

04:21:15.585 --> 04:21:18.153
My experience with the family
policing system speaks to how it

04:21:18.989 --> 04:21:21.757
stays in people's lives for
multiple generations, never

04:21:22.625 --> 04:21:25.360
helping but continuing to cause
harm and trauma.

04:21:27.363 --> 04:21:29.165
I along with other impacted
parents at rise do in the

04:21:29.433 --> 04:21:30.800
believe the system exists to
help us.

04:21:32.235 --> 04:21:34.235
We believe that the system

04:21:34.438 --> 04:21:36.438
targets, survails and punishes

04:21:37.474 --> 04:21:39.474
black and brown families I want

04:21:40.310 --> 04:21:42.310
to start by sharing a quote of

04:21:42.845 --> 04:21:45.380
parent shared with us when asked
what resources they need in

04:21:45.382 --> 04:21:47.382
their communities.

04:21:48.719 --> 04:21:51.287
They said I think if we had a -- 
I think that if we had

04:21:51.721 --> 04:21:53.721
better babysitters so people

04:21:53.757 --> 04:21:55.757
could go to work or they have

04:21:56.226 --> 04:21:58.226
better school system where they

04:21:58.394 --> 04:22:00.996
had like moreafter school
programs for children to go to,

04:22:02.666 --> 04:22:04.934
because most of the time it is
either neglect case you got

04:22:05.736 --> 04:22:08.371
because you left your child at
home cuz you got to run to the

04:22:09.373 --> 04:22:12.700
grocery store to get some food,
and you don't really got your

04:22:12.776 --> 04:22:15.311
children, but I think that if
communities had more daycare

04:22:16.579 --> 04:22:18.648
centers, that would
probably -- that was probably

04:22:18.982 --> 04:22:20.982
free for like six months where

04:22:21.180 --> 04:22:23.920
you can work for six months and
save money to pay a babysitter,

04:22:25.550 --> 04:22:27.550
I think that would be great.

04:22:27.224 --> 04:22:29.625
What I hear from this and I hope
everyone else does is that along

04:22:31.394 --> 04:22:34.290
with better community support we
need to overall reduce the

04:22:35.331 --> 04:22:37.331
reports to the state central

04:22:37.568 --> 04:22:39.568
registry and review what

04:22:39.603 --> 04:22:41.603
mandated reporting looks like.

04:22:41.605 --> 04:22:43.605
Why because often the calls

04:22:44.174 --> 04:22:46.709
being made for neglect and abuse
are underlying calls for better

04:22:48.111 --> 04:22:50.746
support and resources.
As many advocates against family

04:22:52.515 --> 04:22:55.217
police having stated, poverty
does not equal neglect.

04:22:57.688 --> 04:22:59.688
as rise has documented, we call

04:23:00.324 --> 04:23:02.324
on the state ocfs and elected

04:23:02.559 --> 04:23:04.559
officials to target conditions

04:23:05.796 --> 04:23:07.796
and not communities.

04:23:09.199 --> 04:23:11.199
As naashia shared, our report

04:23:11.601 --> 04:23:13.636
outlines steps to take to help
families effectively.

04:23:16.730 --> 04:23:18.730
At rise we all know that scr

04:23:19.810 --> 04:23:21.810
acts as a direct pipeline into

04:23:23.180 --> 04:23:25.981
the system, the prison system
too, right now the policies in

04:23:27.117 --> 04:23:29.718
place at city and city
contractor agencies mandate

04:23:31.856 --> 04:23:33.856
staff to make hotline calls to

04:23:34.491 --> 04:23:36.491
sscr instead of directly serving

04:23:37.394 --> 04:23:39.595
and supporting families.
Our report provides specific

04:23:40.297 --> 04:23:42.631
guidelines on effectively
reforming the state central

04:23:43.366 --> 04:23:45.366
registry to eliminate harm to

04:23:46.360 --> 04:23:48.137
communities and families.
Organizations and institutions

04:23:48.839 --> 04:23:50.839
with mandated reporters on staff

04:23:51.141 --> 04:23:53.141
such as shelter schools and

04:23:53.777 --> 04:23:56.450
hospitals should review their
existing policies and develop

04:23:57.915 --> 04:24:00.383
concrete plans to increase the
number of direct support

04:24:01.510 --> 04:24:03.510
referrals they make and decrease

04:24:04.870 --> 04:24:06.356
the number of hotline calls, for
example, a lack of school

04:24:07.358 --> 04:24:09.358
guidance counselors MAY lead to

04:24:10.694 --> 04:24:13.329
reports instead of support.
Other immediate steps it to

04:24:14.198 --> 04:24:16.599
shrink the scr in new york state
can include removing any parents

04:24:17.701 --> 04:24:20.436
from the scr who are on the list
because of marijuana use.

04:24:21.605 --> 04:24:23.605
This should be done proactively

04:24:23.941 --> 04:24:26.276
and should apply retroactively.
This should be a complete

04:24:27.678 --> 04:24:30.647
removal from the register rather
than ceiling the record.

04:24:30.781 --> 04:24:32.781
In the line.

04:24:33.830 --> 04:24:35.840
With the expungment of cases in
the criminal legal system this

04:24:36.153 --> 04:24:38.153
is a matter of racial and

04:24:39.156 --> 04:24:41.156
economic justice in a time when

04:24:41.292 --> 04:24:43.860
marijuana is increasingly
becoming legalize.
>> can I stop you there.

04:24:45.863 --> 04:24:48.640
>> first of all, amen, I'm with
ir100 percent, did we not catch

04:24:49.566 --> 04:24:52.201
that in the marijuana, the mrta?
>> I don't think so.

04:24:55.138 --> 04:24:57.875
>> we'll talk about, so we
just -- the medical -- z the

04:24:57.875 --> 04:25:00.760
marijuana laws that we just
passed are in process.

04:25:01.120 --> 04:25:03.913
We don't even have some of the
penalties in place yet.

04:25:04.215 --> 04:25:05.782
I agree with you a million
percent.

04:25:06.684 --> 04:25:07.984
That should be part of this,
absolutely.

04:25:09.253 --> 04:25:11.253
Anybody busted on the scr for

04:25:11.488 --> 04:25:13.856
smoking weed when we now have it
legal, when it is legal that is

04:25:15.593 --> 04:25:17.661
insane.
>> okay, thank you.

04:25:19.864 --> 04:25:22.732
>> chris, we'll talk about it.
We are also calling on the state

04:25:23.400 --> 04:25:26.169
to pass state legislation in the
time limit to appeal placement

04:25:26.270 --> 04:25:28.270
on the scr.

04:25:28.572 --> 04:25:30.740
Parents currently have only 90
days to ta peel when placed on

04:25:32.900 --> 04:25:34.900
the scr which is a very short

04:25:34.450 --> 04:25:36.580
period to prepare for and
schedule an appeal.

04:25:37.348 --> 04:25:39.348
Particularly for parents who

04:25:39.417 --> 04:25:41.417
were in crisis, every step of

04:25:43.120 --> 04:25:45.120
the process is difficult and

04:25:45.623 --> 04:25:47.890
tedious we also recommend
replacing a nonmus reporting

04:25:48.725 --> 04:25:50.725
with confidential reporting and

04:25:51.195 --> 04:25:54.164
address the problem of malicious
reporting, from parents

04:25:55.133 --> 04:25:58.100
experiences at rise, we know
that false malicious reporting

04:25:59.136 --> 04:26:02.710
is a pervasive problem and a
tactic used by perpetrators of

04:26:03.140 --> 04:26:05.140
abuse and others who wish to

04:26:06.410 --> 04:26:08.410
cause harm, the passage of new

04:26:09.113 --> 04:26:11.381
york state senate bill s5572
which replaces anonymous

04:26:12.350 --> 04:26:14.350
reporting with confidential

04:26:15.152 --> 04:26:17.152
reporting would be a start to de

04:26:17.154 --> 04:26:19.689
terring malicious and false
calls.
the state can take many more

04:26:20.424 --> 04:26:23.393
steps to truly help parents and
families from getting involved

04:26:24.361 --> 04:26:26.129
with the system and directly
helping them.

04:26:26.965 --> 04:26:28.965
Again our report was lead by

04:26:29.233 --> 04:26:31.402
parents who were directly
impacted by the child welfare

04:26:31.402 --> 04:26:33.402
system.

04:26:34.772 --> 04:26:37.707
Our sol use, our solutions come
from our direct experience.

04:26:38.809 --> 04:26:41.711
We know what we need during
difficult times and we

04:26:42.647 --> 04:26:45.820
incorporated our calls to action
in this report.

04:26:46.985 --> 04:26:48.985
Also ocfs left but I would like

04:26:50.588 --> 04:26:52.757
to ask ocfs to answer for
posting children for sale on

04:26:52.757 --> 04:26:54.757
their website.

04:26:55.126 --> 04:26:57.126
Some children have tags on them

04:26:58.280 --> 04:26:59.896
that say on hold, money will be
exchanged for these children if

04:27:01.466 --> 04:27:04.134
they are adopted, terminating
parental rights, then selling

04:27:06.537 --> 04:27:08.972
them on their website as modern
day slaiferrery.
 -- slavery.

04:27:08.973 --> 04:27:11.107
We went from selling children on
the plantation to setting them

04:27:12.510 --> 04:27:14.510
on the ocfs website.

04:27:17.315 --> 04:27:19.384
Shame on them.
I'm a community coordinator at

04:27:19.384 --> 04:27:21.384
rise.

04:27:23.121 --> 04:27:25.121
>> thank you, MISS Washington.

04:27:25.323 --> 04:27:27.290
This was very, very helpful,
particularly even the phrase

04:27:32.830 --> 04:27:35.265
that is in your testimony -- that
is really helpful.
The last schwe brought up, we

04:27:36.735 --> 04:27:39.703
will take a look at but also
definitely about if anybody, let

04:27:39.738 --> 04:27:42.506
me put this on the record.
If anybody has been busted for a

04:27:42.707 --> 04:27:44.975
marijuana crime before we
legalized it it and is still on

04:27:45.676 --> 04:27:48.111
the state central registry bah
of that, that is an outrage and

04:27:48.980 --> 04:27:51.915
we are going to look to make
sure that it was either covered

04:27:53.118 --> 04:27:55.986
under the existing marijuana act
or will do something

04:27:56.621 --> 04:27:58.722
legislatively because that is
destroying somebody's life for

04:27:59.570 --> 04:28:00.357
something like that is
outrageous.

04:28:02.794 --> 04:28:04.928
Thank you for bringing it up.
>> okay.
Please.
Good morning.

04:28:05.263 --> 04:28:07.263
>> good afternoon.

04:28:07.732 --> 04:28:10.660
>> good afternoon w morning is
passed t is is afternoon.

04:28:12.771 --> 04:28:14.771
Good morning, chair hevesi and

04:28:15.407 --> 04:28:17.641
members of the assembly.
Thank you for calling this

04:28:17.776 --> 04:28:20.677
hearing and thank you for
allowing me to testify on behalf

04:28:21.120 --> 04:28:22.346
of children and families we
serve.

04:28:23.848 --> 04:28:25.848
My name is raye barbieri, I'm

04:28:27.285 --> 04:28:29.754
the chief program officer at
jcca, a child and family service

04:28:30.322 --> 04:28:32.456
agency that works with thousands
of children and families each

04:28:33.358 --> 04:28:35.358
year in new york state.

04:28:37.862 --> 04:28:40.330
Many of these families are very
vulnerable, very disadvantaged,

04:28:41.265 --> 04:28:43.800
struck elling with
pov -- struggling with poverty,

04:28:44.268 --> 04:28:45.770
racism and overpolicing in their
communities.

04:28:47.139 --> 04:28:49.139
Our services include foster and

04:28:49.574 --> 04:28:51.574
residential care, educational

04:28:51.943 --> 04:28:53.811
assistance, and remediation,
behavioral health support,

04:28:54.379 --> 04:28:57.800
crucial wellness services and
care management for young people

04:28:58.283 --> 04:29:00.283
and families.

04:29:01.586 --> 04:29:03.586
Through these services jcca aims

04:29:04.890 --> 04:29:05.356
to stabilize and strengthen
families.

04:29:06.558 --> 04:29:08.558
And we serve a number of

04:29:09.394 --> 04:29:10.628
families in preventive services
as well.

04:29:11.930 --> 04:29:14.331
Wanted to just talk a little bit
about the families first

04:29:14.966 --> 04:29:17.634
preventive services act.
Which has mandated changes in

04:29:19.270 --> 04:29:21.572
the way that children should
experience the child welfare

04:29:21.874 --> 04:29:23.874
system and nationwide this is

04:29:24.609 --> 04:29:27.344
supported by a powerful
philosophical move tomorrow
provide children and families

04:29:27.345 --> 04:29:29.345
with preventive services so

04:29:29.681 --> 04:29:32.616
children can remain safely at
home.
I am here to post some questions

04:29:33.718 --> 04:29:35.919
about how we can do better and
share some specific

04:29:37.222 --> 04:29:39.924
recommendations about how best
to further the interests and

04:29:40.192 --> 04:29:42.192
well-being of children, family

04:29:43.795 --> 04:29:45.795
and

04:29:47.320 --> 04:29:49.600
a primary question is about
primary prevention.

04:29:51.536 --> 04:29:53.536
And one of the questions folks

04:29:54.272 --> 04:29:56.272
talked about is what and where

04:29:56.575 --> 04:29:58.575
should primary prevention occur?

04:29:58.877 --> 04:30:01.779
Does it belong in child welfare?
Perhaps not.

04:30:02.614 --> 04:30:04.248
And I contend that much of it
does not.

04:30:05.150 --> 04:30:07.150
And I wanted to offer a couple

04:30:08.186 --> 04:30:09.753
of areas that we think are
crucial.

04:30:11.456 --> 04:30:13.124
One area is mental health
supports.

04:30:14.626 --> 04:30:16.626
We all see the impact of the

04:30:19.131 --> 04:30:21.131
pandemic across our communities.

04:30:21.733 --> 04:30:23.733
Just recently, the american

04:30:32.770 --> 04:30:34.513
academy the pediatrics, child
and adolescent strike industry
and the hospitalization jointly
declared a national emergency in

04:30:34.513 --> 04:30:36.614
children's mental health.
Foster kids and families
impacted by the child welfare

04:30:37.482 --> 04:30:39.482
system are especially vulnerable

04:30:40.719 --> 04:30:43.120
and in need.
And mental health programs are

04:30:43.588 --> 04:30:45.588
hard to find.

04:30:46.758 --> 04:30:49.461
Our jcca offers behavioral
health programs that are

04:30:50.562 --> 04:30:52.562
designed to reach children at

04:30:52.765 --> 04:30:54.866
all different levels and all
different levels of need.

04:30:55.267 --> 04:30:57.267
And in the communities where

04:30:58.737 --> 04:31:01.238
they live.
We all understand what the

04:31:01.806 --> 04:31:03.806
statistics show.

04:31:04.175 --> 04:31:06.745
According to the C.D.C. In 2020
the proportion of mental health

04:31:09.148 --> 04:31:11.148
related emergencies in emergency

04:31:12.417 --> 04:31:14.417
rooms among adolescents aged

04:31:14.653 --> 04:31:16.653
12-17 increase the 31% compared

04:31:17.890 --> 04:31:19.890
to that in 2019.

04:31:19.357 --> 04:31:21.357
Suspected suicide attempts in

04:31:21.993 --> 04:31:23.993
dpirls increased 50.6% compared

04:31:25.231 --> 04:31:28.199
to 3.7 increases in boys.
I want to underscore we need to

04:31:28.967 --> 04:31:30.967
fund and support behavioral

04:31:35.640 --> 04:31:38.542
health services at this time
particularly at this time during
the pandemic but at all times.
And mental health services that

04:31:47.860 --> 04:31:48.720
are easily accessible, widely
available, and in community the

04:32:00.700 --> 04:32:02.768
where folks live are really a
primary component of primary
prevention.
And belong in the mental health

04:32:02.768 --> 04:32:04.970
system and not in the child
welfare system.
Folks should be able to access
mental health services without

04:32:04.970 --> 04:32:07.473
feeling surveilled without being
concerned about who is getting
the information, where that
information is going, and why.

04:32:07.473 --> 04:32:09.574
And so jcca feels that many of
those services belong in the

04:32:10.776 --> 04:32:12.776
community and not in the child

04:32:12.811 --> 04:32:14.811
welfare system.

04:32:16.282 --> 04:32:18.617
Just one example, in new york
state, there are a number of

04:32:19.752 --> 04:32:22.353
home and community-based
services that really work.

04:32:23.722 --> 04:32:26.290
Health homes that provide care
coordination for kids with

04:32:26.959 --> 04:32:28.259
significant mental health
issues.

04:32:29.270 --> 04:32:31.228
And support services called
children and family treatment

04:32:32.832 --> 04:32:34.832
and support services or cftss

04:32:34.901 --> 04:32:36.901
home and community-based

04:32:38.804 --> 04:32:40.804
services hcbs these week to help

04:32:41.600 --> 04:32:43.600
support families beyond and

04:32:43.309 --> 04:32:44.609
before any child welfare
involvement.

04:32:50.883 --> 04:32:52.651
these are critical.
I would ask then and jcca asks

04:32:53.486 --> 04:32:55.587
why only 300 young people in
foster care in new york are
currently being cared for

04:32:56.922 --> 04:32:59.691
through hcbs services?
There are thousands of kids that

04:33:06.732 --> 04:33:09.568
could use these services and
administrative burden and
complexity has really undermined
the availability of services and

04:33:10.436 --> 04:33:12.904
the ease of access for some of
these children who really need

04:33:13.572 --> 04:33:15.572
these services and families that

04:33:17.376 --> 04:33:19.511
can use the support to stay
together.

04:33:20.179 --> 04:33:21.579
We had a couple of
recommendations.

04:33:22.714 --> 04:33:24.714
We've got to make substantial

04:33:24.717 --> 04:33:26.885
investments in the full
continuum of services for

04:33:26.919 --> 04:33:28.919
children in the places where

04:33:29.222 --> 04:33:31.323
they live, learn and play.
We've got to invest in supports

04:33:33.259 --> 04:33:35.259
for the most environmentable new

04:33:37.263 --> 04:33:39.263
yorkers and break the cycle of

04:33:40.199 --> 04:33:42.199
crisis that turns kids into

04:33:42.368 --> 04:33:43.802
struggling adults with greater
needs.

04:33:44.504 --> 04:33:46.872
Reducing and eliminating the
administrative hurdles that

04:33:47.740 --> 04:33:49.740
young people and families must

04:33:50.710 --> 04:33:52.710
overcome to access the services.

04:33:53.312 --> 04:33:55.130
Are really critical to increase
utilization.

04:33:56.148 --> 04:33:58.148
We also recommend rate increases

04:33:59.519 --> 04:34:01.519
for hcbs services to make it

04:34:02.322 --> 04:34:04.256
affordable for community-based
organizations to provide this

04:34:05.525 --> 04:34:07.525
level of care to the widest

04:34:12.298 --> 04:34:14.666
number of folks possible.
We want to make suggestions why
can't new york identify cohorts

04:34:15.834 --> 04:34:17.834
such as all foster youth being

04:34:26.780 --> 04:34:28.247
discharged from ren had shall
care and discharged from family
foster care to automatically

04:34:28.247 --> 04:34:31.490
qualify for the services rather
than having to jump through
hurdles and hoops.

04:34:32.551 --> 04:34:34.852
another restore that -- 
resource that is a

04:34:35.755 --> 04:34:37.256
community-based resource is
housing.

04:34:38.591 --> 04:34:41.930
Again, we've heard lots and lots
of conversation and we are all

04:34:41.527 --> 04:34:43.527
are in agreement in this room,

04:34:45.298 --> 04:34:47.298
most of us, that child welfare

04:34:47.400 --> 04:34:49.834
involvement is related to
poverty.
And shouldn't be.

04:34:50.569 --> 04:34:52.569
It is a policing of poverty.

04:34:55.341 --> 04:34:57.843
It is a response to conditions.
And we need to address those

04:34:58.911 --> 04:35:00.612
conditions and not penalize and
punish them.

04:35:02.749 --> 04:35:05.417
Housing is one of those areas.
Particularly critical and we've

04:35:05.785 --> 04:35:07.785
heard testimony again today

04:35:08.530 --> 04:35:10.530
about the crisis that kinship

04:35:10.724 --> 04:35:12.758
families face, housing supports
for kin families.

04:35:14.360 --> 04:35:16.360
I think are extremely important

04:35:17.197 --> 04:35:20.132
to the equation.
Similar to vouchers that are

04:35:21.134 --> 04:35:23.134
provided to youth which we

04:35:24.270 --> 04:35:26.270
applaud, section 8 vouchers for

04:35:28.642 --> 04:35:31.100
kids exiting foster care we can
create alternative vouchers that

04:35:31.845 --> 04:35:33.845
will enable adults to receive

04:35:43.155 --> 04:35:45.324
support that can encourage them
to invite young people without
housing to live with them to

04:35:46.226 --> 04:35:48.728
support kin families.
>> say that last part again?
>> with innovation we can create
alternatives vouchers that will

04:35:48.728 --> 04:35:50.728
enable adults to receive

04:35:51.931 --> 04:35:54.633
financial or in kind support to
encourage them to care for

04:35:54.634 --> 04:35:57.402
people without housing.
Some of the services need to be

04:35:58.604 --> 04:36:00.604
applied to the kinship families.

04:36:04.177 --> 04:36:06.279
We've her about shadow kinship
foster care.

04:36:09.349 --> 04:36:11.349
This can't continue.

04:36:11.351 --> 04:36:13.351
This exhausts family it is puts

04:36:18.691 --> 04:36:21.661
families at odds with systems.
It forces families to take on
burdens that none of us could
take on without additional
support.

04:36:28.340 --> 04:36:30.769
We can invest and we should.
>> quick question.
>> yes, ma'am.
>> when you make those reference

04:36:37.511 --> 04:36:39.913
references not just with kinship
but people youth that are in
need of places to stay, are you
also including within that are

04:36:39.913 --> 04:36:42.181
homeless high schoolers and
people in that population that

04:36:43.149 --> 04:36:45.149
MAY crash they have no permanent

04:36:45.518 --> 04:36:47.518
home but crash on couches.

04:36:47.887 --> 04:36:49.887
And they just keep making the

04:36:52.692 --> 04:36:54.926
rounds among friends of theirs,
families and.
>> absolutely.

04:36:55.162 --> 04:36:57.897
>> and for as long as they can
and moving to the next house.

04:36:59.866 --> 04:37:01.866
>> and many are foster kids.

04:37:02.335 --> 04:37:04.335
Who have been bounced around.

04:37:04.771 --> 04:37:06.771
And are out of placement in

04:37:07.140 --> 04:37:10.800
placement, shifting all around.
All this destabilization we need

04:37:12.346 --> 04:37:14.346
to try to be innovative to

04:37:14.581 --> 04:37:16.581
create stabilizing processes

04:37:17.170 --> 04:37:19.170
rather than destabilizing

04:37:19.119 --> 04:37:21.119
processes not just urgent

04:37:24.190 --> 04:37:26.391
response to an immediate
situation be it in the housing
realm, in the mental health

04:37:26.826 --> 04:37:29.394
realm, but a continuum of
stability that doesn't allow

04:37:30.631 --> 04:37:33.532
people to have to fall down
before they can rise up.

04:37:38.371 --> 04:37:40.940
>> thank you.
>> I also want to talk about

04:37:43.409 --> 04:37:46.111
supportive housing for kids who
have intellectual and

04:37:52.619 --> 04:37:54.821
developmental delays as well as
their parents.
We can be creative parents and
children need to stay together

04:37:54.821 --> 04:37:56.455
we need to create more supports
for families struggling with

04:37:57.557 --> 04:37:59.557
kids we've heard about kids on

04:38:00.260 --> 04:38:02.260
the autism specific tum and kids

04:38:02.695 --> 04:38:04.695
with special needs.

04:38:09.803 --> 04:38:12.306
Sometimes supportive housing
where there are specialized
services for I had cans with
these issues -- 

04:38:12.306 --> 04:38:14.573
kids with these issues can help
to prevent foster care it means

04:38:15.842 --> 04:38:18.770
investing in housing supports in
communities that offer a range

04:38:19.779 --> 04:38:21.880
of options depending on each
family's unique needs.

04:38:23.751 --> 04:38:25.751
We can't keep trying to fix

04:38:26.200 --> 04:38:28.200
square pegs into round holes we

04:38:28.210 --> 04:38:30.210
need to see people as people and

04:38:30.891 --> 04:38:32.891
evaluate folks and provide care

04:38:34.270 --> 04:38:36.495
that meets their unique needs.
Another aspect that I wanted to

04:38:37.631 --> 04:38:39.631
raise is the issue of education.

04:38:40.868 --> 04:38:42.868
We heard earlier on today about

04:38:44.380 --> 04:38:46.380
real struggles in schools.

04:38:46.540 --> 04:38:49.375
And the social emotional health
of children is particularly

04:38:50.770 --> 04:38:52.244
strained right now with kids
returning to school after the

04:38:53.547 --> 04:38:55.547
pandemic after a year-and-a-half

04:38:56.751 --> 04:38:58.751
of school on-line and all sorts

04:39:02.556 --> 04:39:04.791
of disrupted learning.
We applaud the doe in new york
city for recently committing to

04:39:04.958 --> 04:39:07.661
developing a team dedicated
dedicate

04:39:07.661 --> 04:39:09.862
ed
specifically to students in

04:39:10.764 --> 04:39:12.798
foster care.
That is a win for kids having

04:39:13.166 --> 04:39:15.166
that level of advocacy and a

04:39:15.336 --> 04:39:17.137
place to bring issues for
coordination and support.

04:39:17.905 --> 04:39:19.905
This is going to be a huge step

04:39:20.274 --> 04:39:22.710
forward to help these kids and
families navigate the challenges

04:39:22.710 --> 04:39:24.710
in school.

04:39:26.246 --> 04:39:28.246
We also want to say that similar

04:39:28.348 --> 04:39:30.348
doe liaisons who focus on

04:39:30.750 --> 04:39:33.860
families and the child welfare
system would be very meaningful

04:39:33.754 --> 04:39:35.754
to the family court.

04:39:35.923 --> 04:39:37.923
Right now the family court act

04:39:38.292 --> 04:39:40.627
does not permit a family court
judge to mandate the school

04:39:42.429 --> 04:39:44.429
district to do anything.

04:39:44.898 --> 04:39:46.898
A judge can only order that an

04:39:47.401 --> 04:39:49.401
adult and a child's life a case

04:39:49.770 --> 04:39:52.606
worker, a parent, foster parent,
pursue measures that will

04:40:02.416 --> 04:40:04.751
support educational success.
This is a fundamental issue.
So if a child is struggling
academically, a judge can't

04:40:04.751 --> 04:40:06.921
order tutoring but the judge can
order a case worker to pursue

04:40:06.921 --> 04:40:08.921
tutoring.

04:40:10.240 --> 04:40:12.792
It is a nuanced issue but not
having the ability to issue

04:40:13.727 --> 04:40:16.596
orders for the school district
is a big issue.

04:40:18.980 --> 04:40:20.633
And many children face
significant academic challenges,

04:40:22.603 --> 04:40:24.603
lack of information, conflicting

04:40:25.139 --> 04:40:27.575
information, changing dynamics,
changing staff this might be a

04:40:27.575 --> 04:40:29.575
piece of the pie.

04:40:29.710 --> 04:40:31.710
That can help to advance kids

04:40:32.713 --> 04:40:34.713
through the school systems and

04:40:35.282 --> 04:40:37.750
create ways to hold the school
system accountable.

04:40:40.954 --> 04:40:43.523
I want to also just note that we
have a similar set of concerns

04:40:45.126 --> 04:40:46.760
around mandated reporters at
jcca.

04:40:47.762 --> 04:40:49.762
We've heard lots and lots about

04:40:49.997 --> 04:40:51.997
this issue and reporting and the

04:40:52.660 --> 04:40:54.660
heavy surveillance.

04:40:56.470 --> 04:40:58.470
As you've heard title 6 and

04:40:58.939 --> 04:41:01.508
section 413 of the new york
state social services law

04:41:08.849 --> 04:41:11.352
creates an arm's long list of 50
professionals in new york that
are legally required to report
perceived abuse or maltreatment

04:41:11.352 --> 04:41:12.585
this is a list longer than most
states.

04:41:13.520 --> 04:41:15.520
And while jcca and all of us in

04:41:15.756 --> 04:41:17.756
the room are strong advocates

04:41:18.960 --> 04:41:21.661
for children's safety, why do we
have so many mandated reporters?

04:41:24.999 --> 04:41:27.701
This is undermining the system's
ability to be effective and

04:41:28.169 --> 04:41:30.169
building trust between families

04:41:30.237 --> 04:41:31.504
and providers of preventative
services.

04:41:32.673 --> 04:41:35.175
It is a deterrent for families
to seek help.

04:41:36.978 --> 04:41:38.978
As we've heardle low keptly from

04:41:46.120 --> 04:41:48.556
everybody in the room.
And it makes it difficult to
engage folks in services.

04:41:48.556 --> 04:41:50.690
We need to reenvision that
mandated reporter issue.

04:41:51.425 --> 04:41:53.728
And reconsider the anonymous
reporting components of that as

04:41:53.728 --> 04:41:55.728
well.

04:41:56.364 --> 04:41:59.166
So we are strongly in favor of a
reengineering of that.

04:42:00.670 --> 04:42:02.670
My last issue that I wanted to

04:42:04.171 --> 04:42:06.873
just raise is that there is a
continued need for specialized

04:42:09.344 --> 04:42:11.344
care for our highest need youth

04:42:11.446 --> 04:42:13.446
in the child welfare system.

04:42:13.581 --> 04:42:15.581
The spirit of family first is to

04:42:15.750 --> 04:42:17.750
remove kids from residential

04:42:18.753 --> 04:42:20.753
facilities who can be treated

04:42:20.888 --> 04:42:22.389
safely and successfully in their
communities.

04:42:23.324 --> 04:42:25.324
We recommend making robust

04:42:25.459 --> 04:42:27.561
investments in intensive
community-based services to

04:42:27.696 --> 04:42:29.696
support that work.

04:42:29.964 --> 04:42:31.964
Kids can't just be discharged

04:42:32.467 --> 04:42:34.768
and go home they need
comprehensive wrap around

04:42:35.360 --> 04:42:38.400
services that are easily
accessible, don't have hoops,

04:42:39.674 --> 04:42:42.642
bells, whistles and all sorts of
barriers to access.

04:42:44.479 --> 04:42:46.479
And are not necessarily

04:42:46.681 --> 04:42:47.948
connected to the child welfare
system.

04:42:51.186 --> 04:42:53.655
We talked about health homes,
services, and all of that is

04:42:53.655 --> 04:42:56.323
critical.
But additional elements in the

04:42:56.657 --> 04:42:58.657
continuum of care for families

04:43:00.127 --> 04:43:02.128
in the community mental health
healthcare, family support care

04:43:02.497 --> 04:43:04.497
is equally as important.

04:43:10.672 --> 04:43:12.874
That said there are a small
number of young people that for
a short time cannot be served in
their homes.

04:43:12.874 --> 04:43:14.941
At the same time, we're building
strength and stability in
families and helping build

04:43:15.143 --> 04:43:17.377
capacity for families to take
kids back.

04:43:18.112 --> 04:43:21.820
We need to insure that the
highest quality most appropriate

04:43:21.516 --> 04:43:23.516
options with access to the

04:43:24.686 --> 04:43:26.988
specialized services that meet
these high levels of need are in

04:43:26.988 --> 04:43:29.856
place.
Some of the children are

04:43:32.627 --> 04:43:35.362
currently served in jcca's
programs.
And some of these children are

04:43:37.265 --> 04:43:39.265
the most remarkable, most

04:43:39.968 --> 04:43:42.136
creative, most amazingly
resilient children that we serve

04:43:42.137 --> 04:43:44.137
in our continuum.

04:43:44.506 --> 04:43:47.207
We cannot make these children
feel they have failed because

04:43:48.309 --> 04:43:50.610
they MAY spend time in a
residential setting we need to

04:43:51.446 --> 04:43:54.140
lift the children up provide
them with services they need and

04:43:54.216 --> 04:43:56.216
support their families in the

04:43:57.850 --> 04:43:58.819
communities where they live.
I'll stop there.

04:44:00.555 --> 04:44:03.323
And I want to thank you all for
taking the time to listen and

04:44:03.391 --> 04:44:05.391
consider these recommendations

04:44:05.727 --> 04:44:07.727
and I appreciate everyone's

04:44:08.850 --> 04:44:10.101
ears.
Thank you very much for that.
There is a lot to unpack.

04:44:20.675 --> 04:44:23.770
I will talk about the last piece
piece.
The specialized care for kids in
the system.
We have been tipped off by

04:44:23.770 --> 04:44:25.120
another friend of ours an
advocate about the huge problem

04:44:27.148 --> 04:44:29.148
of under reporting of kids with

04:44:29.851 --> 04:44:32.253
developmental and intellectual
disabilities in the system and

04:44:33.889 --> 04:44:35.889
we don't know how many there are

04:44:39.361 --> 04:44:40.995
and we are not providing
services and we send them to the

04:44:41.596 --> 04:44:44.231
office of mental health when
they turn 18.
This is not good.
We're doing terribly with this.
>> yep

04:44:48.804 --> 04:44:51.390
>> and it's on our radar but we
will look to talk to you more
about it.
And thank you both for

04:44:51.390 --> 04:44:52.907
testifying all of you it was
helpful.
Thank you.
>> thank you.

04:45:00.515 --> 04:45:02.515
>> thank you.

04:45:06.488 --> 04:45:08.488
>> next panel please, marcello

04:45:09.524 --> 04:45:12.193
roque, yes, sir, please.
And MS. Griffin.

04:45:17.899 --> 04:45:20.133
And we are going to add is camia
jones in the room.

04:45:23.972 --> 04:45:26.241
Thank you very much.
>> how are you?

04:45:26.241 --> 04:45:28.376
>> good.
>> please floor is yours.

04:45:30.112 --> 04:45:32.112
>> thank you.

04:45:40.155 --> 04:45:41.556
You are MR. Andrew hevesi.
>> yes, sir.

04:45:44.613 --> 04:45:46.294
>> ok; basically I came before
you guys today to speak on
behalf of my family, my kids and

04:45:47.129 --> 04:45:49.129
many other families and

04:45:49.831 --> 04:45:51.831
children's lives who have been

04:45:52.734 --> 04:45:54.734
destroyed due to unfortunately

04:45:56.400 --> 04:45:58.239
the many issues in family court
in the family court of the

04:46:02.344 --> 04:46:04.344
united states.

04:46:05.981 --> 04:46:08.749
It is amazingly reported issue
to do with the family courts in

04:46:11.486 --> 04:46:14.288
the U.S.
They have power and damaging

04:46:15.191 --> 04:46:17.191
effects the separation from a

04:46:17.693 --> 04:46:19.693
parent can have on a child's

04:46:19.928 --> 04:46:21.928
long-term development and future

04:46:23.510 --> 04:46:25.700
success.
As outlined in one of the

04:46:27.402 --> 04:46:29.300
studies that which is johns
hopkins study.

04:46:29.671 --> 04:46:32.607
There is a simple solution but
the system is so broken that it

04:46:33.109 --> 04:46:35.143
is our children who are paying
the price.

04:46:36.812 --> 04:46:38.812
Those who are before the courts

04:46:43.719 --> 04:46:45.921
have a constitution at right
systemically violated with
[Inaudible]
over the process.

04:46:45.921 --> 04:46:47.921
There is no transparency as the

04:46:54.630 --> 04:46:56.364
courts attempted to systemically
exr exclude the public.

04:46:58.867 --> 04:47:01.435
Should the public prevail in
court, attorneys, conference in

04:47:03.939 --> 04:47:05.941
chambers and then put it in the
record what they want the public

04:47:05.941 --> 04:47:08.810
to hear.
There is no effective

04:47:10.346 --> 04:47:12.346
accountability for judges and

04:47:13.983 --> 04:47:16.617
less for our attorneys for the
children.

04:47:17.219 --> 04:47:19.219
According to scripps it's

04:47:23.291 --> 04:47:25.327
difficult and expensive why
correct them is all but
impossible for litigants.

04:47:29.965 --> 04:47:31.965
The appeals process is

04:47:33.168 --> 04:47:35.168
prohibitively burdensome.

04:47:35.237 --> 04:47:37.237
Jurors are not allowed and that

04:47:38.540 --> 04:47:39.807
is a huge access to the justice
gap.

04:47:43.646 --> 04:47:45.646
Case loads are overwhelming.

04:47:47.650 --> 04:47:50.385
For judges and the use of
magistrates and attorneys

04:47:56.191 --> 04:47:58.191
referees are [Inaudible]

04:47:58.560 --> 04:48:00.560
They have tremendous power that

04:48:05.568 --> 04:48:07.202
is effect lively unchecked.
In the moment of immunity which

04:48:09.438 --> 04:48:11.438
can be used as -- 

04:48:12.274 --> 04:48:15.143
I'm sorry.
Plead families instead of

04:48:17.980 --> 04:48:20.515
protecting the impartiality and
they benefit from the families

04:48:23.452 --> 04:48:25.452
in pursuit of federal welfare

04:48:28.557 --> 04:48:30.959
grants totaling billions of
dollars.
Family court is the least

04:48:30.959 --> 04:48:32.959
protective court for the people

04:48:42.738 --> 04:48:44.773
that go into it.
There is no advising how to
prefair for a court date.

04:48:44.773 --> 04:48:46.708
The decision is up to the judge
alone and the judge is
financially incent fiz

04:48:47.643 --> 04:48:49.844
incentivized to
break up families.

04:48:50.712 --> 04:48:52.712
My experience in family court I

04:48:53.316 --> 04:48:55.316
was not just unlucky and

04:48:57.153 --> 04:48:59.153
unprepared but there is a system

04:49:05.961 --> 04:49:08.630
in place that only benefit the
court.
The courts are awarded by
managing and collecting child

04:49:08.630 --> 04:49:10.432
support and pay supervisor
visits with a child does not put
the well-being and best interest

04:49:10.967 --> 04:49:12.967
of the child first.

04:49:19.809 --> 04:49:21.809
It leads to parental alienation.

04:49:25.180 --> 04:49:26.781
I'm sorry.
I forgot my glasses continue.

04:49:27.217 --> 04:49:29.217
>> I've seen the documentary you

04:49:29.419 --> 04:49:31.687
are about to talk about.
>> damaging impact on the life

04:49:34.323 --> 04:49:37.259
and the future of the child.
In 2019 a paper by the national

04:49:38.260 --> 04:49:40.260
center for state court shows

04:49:42.364 --> 04:49:45.334
that parental alienation can be
child abuse yet children are

04:49:45.602 --> 04:49:47.602
tramatically separated from

04:49:47.737 --> 04:49:49.737
loving parents everyday in

04:49:49.839 --> 04:49:51.839
family courts in the U.S.

04:49:52.442 --> 04:49:54.442
As a result where joint custody

04:49:56.279 --> 04:49:58.279
should be for the health of the

04:49:58.547 --> 04:50:00.547
child it is this is backed up by

04:50:02.452 --> 04:50:04.452
a leading clinical psychologist

04:50:06.489 --> 04:50:08.489
one of my favorite I've read

04:50:09.992 --> 04:50:11.992
many books of him.

04:50:12.461 --> 04:50:14.461
And now continue in the next

04:50:14.497 --> 04:50:16.531
page.
This happened to me.

04:50:17.166 --> 04:50:19.166
I have two sons.

04:50:20.804 --> 04:50:23.539
One 17 the other one is 18.
Who I brought up on my own for

04:50:23.873 --> 04:50:26.575
many years who are successful
and never missed school.

04:50:27.510 --> 04:50:29.510
They are great, well adjusted

04:50:30.680 --> 04:50:32.547
boys and I love being their
father.
Then I got into a relationship

04:50:33.482 --> 04:50:35.482
and having been alone for a

04:50:44.294 --> 04:50:46.663
longtime we got engaged and a
premature pregnancy a beautiful
girl who I adore to be a father
but the relationship was

04:50:46.663 --> 04:50:48.563
ill-fated and we agreed to
separate.
In family court my daughter's

04:50:49.650 --> 04:50:51.800
mother turn up with a lawyer.
I was not aware I needed one.

04:50:56.139 --> 04:50:58.400
and he was the only person the
only person allowed to speak.

04:51:04.681 --> 04:51:06.682
I sat there not able to say
anything not able to fight my
case as a loving father who

04:51:06.682 --> 04:51:08.683
wants his daughter to be a part
of the family life with her
brothers and father.

04:51:10.921 --> 04:51:12.922
For no reason beyond being
unprepared for I understood to

04:51:14.558 --> 04:51:17.292
be a simple mediation and
agreement of shared custody I

04:51:22.980 --> 04:51:24.132
was put on supervised visits.
It has taken me years to fight

04:51:25.101 --> 04:51:27.101
the unsupervised visit and I

04:51:27.470 --> 04:51:30.140
still am only able to have an
hour supervised visits only for

04:51:34.210 --> 04:51:36.210
a few days in-between court.

04:51:37.714 --> 04:51:39.714
I have the records in proof of

04:51:41.851 --> 04:51:43.851
how the system the school to the

04:51:45.210 --> 04:51:47.210
boys club, that is the judge's

04:51:48.225 --> 04:51:50.225
and attorneys how it is attacked

04:51:51.661 --> 04:51:53.661
against you the moment you step

04:51:55.665 --> 04:51:58.330
in a family court.
I will be happy to share.

04:51:58.935 --> 04:52:00.935
I will be happy to talk you more

04:52:01.471 --> 04:52:03.471
about this issue and bring the

04:52:05.876 --> 04:52:07.876
organizations to the party to

04:52:10.280 --> 04:52:12.314
show repetitive pattern across
the country.

04:52:12.549 --> 04:52:14.549
Something must be done to help

04:52:17.187 --> 04:52:19.187
our children's future.

04:52:19.922 --> 04:52:21.922
The cjp which is supposed to be

04:52:25.362 --> 04:52:27.797
there to help in these cases but
the board continues judges take

04:52:28.650 --> 04:52:30.650
no actions.

04:52:30.660 --> 04:52:32.660
As you can imagine this caused a

04:52:32.969 --> 04:52:34.969
huge amount of stress on the

04:52:35.338 --> 04:52:37.773
parents, too on going court
cases are hard to afford while

04:52:38.342 --> 04:52:40.342
you are bringing up family.

04:52:40.611 --> 04:52:42.611
And I know other people who have

04:52:43.780 --> 04:52:45.780
ended because they don't see a

04:52:46.883 --> 04:52:49.852
way out and just want to be part
of the children's lives.

04:52:50.353 --> 04:52:53.255
There is a multiple organization
who are trying to raise

04:52:54.857 --> 04:52:56.857
awareness of this issue who are

04:52:58.729 --> 04:53:00.963
making some inroads but it is so
much more to do.

04:53:01.298 --> 04:53:03.666
that is it.
>> that was great thank you.

04:53:05.869 --> 04:53:07.636
I appreciate the testimony.
Particularly the portion about

04:53:08.238 --> 04:53:10.238
there is no advice how to

04:53:10.674 --> 04:53:13.542
prepare for a court date.
You walk into it and you thought

04:53:14.678 --> 04:53:17.480
it was going to be remediation
and it turned into removal

04:53:18.649 --> 04:53:20.649
process and that is unfair and I

04:53:21.985 --> 04:53:24.854
agree that parents should be
provided with lawyers.

04:53:25.689 --> 04:53:28.570
At a minimum.
>> lawyers with integrity.

04:53:29.250 --> 04:53:31.527
>> I can provide lawyers.
I cannot -- 

04:53:32.129 --> 04:53:35.980
I'm kidding.
>> but we hear you I hear you.

04:53:35.499 --> 04:53:38.401
I thank you very much for the
testimony.
>> I have a question.

04:53:39.369 --> 04:53:41.369
Because this I do recall you

04:53:41.371 --> 04:53:44.173
very well from one of the times
in the past I believe it was

04:53:45.909 --> 04:53:47.909
2018 or 2019 when DR. Lynch

04:53:47.944 --> 04:53:50.613
came before you and spoke with
you.
It's been a couple of years and

04:53:52.283 --> 04:53:54.917
since that time, this is exactly
around the time when I got

04:53:55.519 --> 04:53:58.154
involved with this and the
movement and tried to learn more

04:54:00.524 --> 04:54:02.524
about my rights.

04:54:03.260 --> 04:54:05.194
I we are talking about three
years back.

04:54:07.640 --> 04:54:09.640
Now here we are three years

04:54:09.400 --> 04:54:12.368
after and we just are seeing
things getting worse I'm

04:54:13.670 --> 04:54:16.205
wondering since that three years
2018 when you have that meeting

04:54:18.800 --> 04:54:20.800
with DR. Lynch she was able to

04:54:20.911 --> 04:54:22.911
describe you know how the need

04:54:23.848 --> 04:54:26.416
of having the forensic
evaluators out of the picture

04:54:27.618 --> 04:54:29.618
and they are destroying people's

04:54:30.487 --> 04:54:32.487
life and I am right now facing

04:54:34.525 --> 04:54:37.493
this weapon against me of a
fraud line evaluation.

04:54:38.462 --> 04:54:41.330
>> a forensic evaluation.
>> as the final determination

04:54:42.667 --> 04:54:44.667
was to completely terminate

04:54:45.469 --> 04:54:48.438
myself from my daughter's life.
For 18 years from the two kids

04:54:49.139 --> 04:54:51.741
from my first marriage.
Good record.
No criminal record.

04:54:53.760 --> 04:54:55.878
>> can I tell you where we are
with forensic evaluators?

04:54:57.280 --> 04:54:59.280
You are referencing a hearing I

04:55:06.890 --> 04:55:09.625
was a part of with CHAIRMAN
Dinowitz from the judiciary?
So about forensic evaluations so

04:55:09.860 --> 04:55:11.860
everybody is clear the people

04:55:11.995 --> 04:55:14.630
the court relies on to make
determinations where the kid

04:55:17.802 --> 04:55:19.803
should go.
And it's like the wild west they
are unregulated.

04:55:20.738 --> 04:55:23.730
They don't have to have
qualifications their notes you

04:55:23.340 --> 04:55:25.340
cannot get access to.

04:55:29.947 --> 04:55:32.215
You are right.
The CHAIRMAN Put in a bill to
reform it.
I put in a bill for fun that

04:55:32.215 --> 04:55:34.215
wasn't going to pass that got

04:55:34.986 --> 04:55:37.870
rid of all forensic evaluators.
Because in my experience they

04:55:38.356 --> 04:55:40.890
have turned more kids over to
abuser than they should have.

04:55:41.792 --> 04:55:43.827
But that bill is not going to go
but there are two things

04:55:43.827 --> 04:55:45.827
happening.

04:55:47.431 --> 04:55:49.431
One is CHAIRMAN Ran that

04:55:49.700 --> 04:55:52.135
committee chair been dinowitz
has a bill to reform them.

04:55:52.470 --> 04:55:54.905
And here is more important.
If you will remember at the

04:55:56.207 --> 04:55:58.875
hearing one of the people would
testified is jacqueline, and her

04:56:00.678 --> 04:56:02.678
daughter was killed by her

04:56:03.800 --> 04:56:05.800
abusive husband.

04:56:15.259 --> 04:56:17.861
She because she and others made
an issue about forensic
evaluators the governor then
governor cuomo started a

04:56:18.295 --> 04:56:20.295
commission the blue ribbon

04:56:23.767 --> 04:56:25.368
commission to look at what do we
do about these forensic eval

04:56:31.142 --> 04:56:33.711
itsers, get rid of them or
monitor them.
It is work going onion what it
happening with it because we
have a new governor.

04:56:33.711 --> 04:56:35.378
It has not fallen off the radar
we have not done anything in the

04:56:38.749 --> 04:56:40.617
last two years.
>> right.
And accountability, nothing.

04:56:44.689 --> 04:56:47.580
>> nothing yet.
Nothing yet but there will be a
report from that blue ribbon
commission and we will be able

04:56:47.580 --> 04:56:49.393
to tell you the date at some
point which they are supposed to
issue that report and then it

04:56:50.695 --> 04:56:53.196
will be up to us to act to try
to implement the thoughts.

04:56:55.199 --> 04:56:57.400
I want to see what they are
saying and we are looking to
reform it.

04:57:08.790 --> 04:57:10.790
I just don't know how to do it

04:57:11.215 --> 04:57:13.215
yet because they have not had

04:57:17.388 --> 04:57:19.457
proposals.
We'll get there.
Please.
>> I have one more question.

04:57:19.457 --> 04:57:21.250
Since you have been holding
these kind of meetings a few

04:57:23.194 --> 04:57:25.194
times in the past, what -- 

04:57:31.535 --> 04:57:33.704
>> what is different now?
>> yes.
What type of obstacles have you

04:57:33.704 --> 04:57:35.839
been facing since 2018 meeting
for example?
>> that is a great question.

04:57:36.975 --> 04:57:39.476
>> we have not seen any change
at all.
Just things getting worse.

04:57:41.179 --> 04:57:43.280
And saying everything is still
completely unreported.

04:57:44.349 --> 04:57:46.349
To the point where now with all

04:57:47.840 --> 04:57:49.840
the violations going on with the

04:57:50.354 --> 04:57:52.354
vaccinations and masks, people

04:57:52.623 --> 04:57:53.957
starting to be more open to
hearing us.

04:57:55.600 --> 04:57:57.227
But who have been dealing with
corruption in family court for

04:57:57.896 --> 04:57:59.896
so many years and now everybody

04:58:01.299 --> 04:58:03.233
is on the same boat.
but like.

04:58:04.368 --> 04:58:06.368
>> the reason why that we have

04:58:07.138 --> 04:58:09.606
not been successful in the last
two years first, in full candor

04:58:10.775 --> 04:58:13.210
I wasn't focused on these issues
in the last two years.

04:58:14.713 --> 04:58:16.713
I was chair of a different

04:58:17.449 --> 04:58:18.715
committee prior when we met
before.

04:58:20.285 --> 04:58:22.285
But second, the biggest I want

04:58:22.653 --> 04:58:24.653
to say this carefully, the

04:58:24.956 --> 04:58:26.956
biggest obstacle to progress in

04:58:27.191 --> 04:58:28.825
new york state was the former
governor.

04:58:29.461 --> 04:58:31.829
And I'm not using this as an
opportunity to beat up on

04:58:33.310 --> 04:58:35.732
anybody but he stopped us from
being a variety of things

04:58:36.201 --> 04:58:39.690
through vetoes and cutting
money.
He's gone.

04:58:40.571 --> 04:58:43.600
And we also have a much more
active legislature I will tell
you.

04:58:45.276 --> 04:58:47.545
My colleagues there are tons of
new members and they are all

04:58:47.979 --> 04:58:50.140
aggressive and they don't take
no for an answer.

04:58:51.416 --> 04:58:53.416
It is a different dynamic.

04:58:59.957 --> 04:59:01.391
I'm telling you the playing
field is different.

04:59:03.516 --> 04:59:05.831
When we were going up against
the former governor he was
powerful and his answer was
always no.
Automatic.
Didn't matter what you were
asking always no.
We are in a different
environment now so we have more

04:59:05.831 --> 04:59:08.165
opportunity.
>> good to hear that.

04:59:08.733 --> 04:59:10.733
Is there anything with that

04:59:11.736 --> 04:59:13.537
advise us to do from the other
side what can we do in order to

04:59:13.738 --> 04:59:16.540
give you the power at that time
you need in order to?

04:59:16.741 --> 04:59:19.509
>> that is a great question.
The answer is the multiple bills

04:59:20.679 --> 04:59:23.314
that people have been talking
about over the last couple of

04:59:23.649 --> 04:59:25.649
hours all will be live in the

04:59:25.884 --> 04:59:27.884
next couple of months to get as

04:59:29.254 --> 04:59:31.254
many of them passed as possible

04:59:34.225 --> 04:59:36.225
we need to educate my colleagues

04:59:37.562 --> 04:59:38.762
who are not focused on this
issue.

04:59:40.599 --> 04:59:43.200
So yes we could use everybody's
help here there's going to be

04:59:43.235 --> 04:59:45.235
lobbying efforts.

04:59:45.237 --> 04:59:48.720
I'm setting up meetings for my
colleagues to listen to the

04:59:48.840 --> 04:59:51.750
professionals as they talk
through anonymous reporting but

04:59:51.643 --> 04:59:53.643
there will be opportunities for

04:59:54.145 --> 04:59:56.413
you to go directly and talk to
elected officials that is where

04:59:56.849 --> 04:59:59.817
you could be the most value.
If you get in the room and tell

05:00:01.420 --> 05:00:03.888
them your story, and it makes it
difficult for them not to be

05:00:03.922 --> 05:00:05.823
with you.
>> ok.
All right.

05:00:06.891 --> 05:00:09.126
>> thank you.
Please stay.

05:00:10.228 --> 05:00:12.596
>> go ahead.
>> thanks for being so patient.

05:00:16.568 --> 05:00:19.503
>> thank you.
Hello -- 
thank you for letting me talk.

05:00:21.506 --> 05:00:24.800
My name is camia jones and my
kids are currently in foster

05:00:26.110 --> 05:00:28.612
care and two of them is about to
get adopted and they are going

05:00:37.189 --> 05:00:39.324
to give me they said what's it
called, one of them is going to

05:00:41.426 --> 05:00:43.794
be returned back to me.
I went to my programs I did

05:00:44.129 --> 05:00:46.129
everything that I was supposed

05:00:46.431 --> 05:00:48.431
to do.

05:00:49.340 --> 05:00:51.340
And they just stress me out and

05:00:52.137 --> 05:00:54.137
they keep sending me I had did

05:00:54.907 --> 05:00:57.875
something real bad where I
assaulted a worker in 2019.

05:00:58.276 --> 05:01:00.276
I'm on trial for it now.

05:01:01.313 --> 05:01:03.313
They are trying to hurry up and

05:01:03.581 --> 05:01:04.815
rush and terminate my parental
rights.

05:01:06.152 --> 05:01:08.786
I cannot say my kid's name.
>> you can say your kid's name.

05:01:10.956 --> 05:01:12.956
>> they are trying to hurry up

05:01:16.728 --> 05:01:18.728
and terminate my parental rights

05:01:18.897 --> 05:01:20.531
for my miracle who is 8 and sean
is 5.

05:01:23.402 --> 05:01:25.402
I get emotional.

05:01:26.171 --> 05:01:28.171
>> no emotional stuff.

05:01:30.409 --> 05:01:32.409
>> they took my son away back in

05:01:39.551 --> 05:01:40.818
2019, the baby I have three
children.

05:01:42.154 --> 05:01:44.323
And they keep on telling the
judge that I have I didn't do my
services and I have mental
health issues like anxiety they

05:01:44.323 --> 05:01:45.924
gave it 0 to me.
I have anxiety and depression

05:01:46.859 --> 05:01:49.494
now and -- 
>> ptsd.
>> I'm with you.

05:01:50.280 --> 05:01:52.280
Anxiety and depression.

05:01:52.297 --> 05:01:54.932
>> I have anxiety, depression
and the mood stabilizer.

05:01:57.602 --> 05:01:59.602
And I had anger problems.

05:02:00.439 --> 05:02:01.740
So they sent me to anger
management.

05:02:03.375 --> 05:02:04.642
I went to the classes on several
occasions.

05:02:07.479 --> 05:02:10.114
I completed it back in 2015,
2018, 2019.

05:02:11.416 --> 05:02:13.416
I've stayed in my therapy, my

05:02:15.354 --> 05:02:17.489
mental health services.
My therapist just recently sent

05:02:18.824 --> 05:02:20.824
a letter to court and they keep

05:02:21.760 --> 05:02:23.760
throwing out my letters because

05:02:31.870 --> 05:02:34.472
they know that it's helping me.
And they keep on putting -- 
I can't say the worker's name.
>> a case worker.

05:02:35.675 --> 05:02:37.675
>> well, she got promoted to be

05:02:41.847 --> 05:02:43.448
a supervisor after she took
emmanuel away from me my last

05:02:50.188 --> 05:02:52.825
baby and I assaulted her because
of that and they keep on putting
her on the stand on several
occasions like I know what I
did.

05:02:52.825 --> 05:02:54.926
What I'm doing they need to talk
about what I'm doing now.

05:02:55.261 --> 05:02:57.595
To better myself.
I've been doing good.

05:02:59.832 --> 05:03:01.399
i am a group member of vocal
fornlg new york.

05:03:02.601 --> 05:03:04.402
I have been in therapy for
almost two years.

05:03:05.837 --> 05:03:08.606
They complained about because I
got out I was born in portland

05:03:13.446 --> 05:03:15.413
so I traveled when I was
pregnant emmanuel was born JULY
13, 2019.

05:03:16.248 --> 05:03:18.248
I went out of town.

05:03:20.386 --> 05:03:22.386
And they told the judge that

05:03:24.856 --> 05:03:27.592
I've stopped going to therapy.
And I've been -- 
I have a second therapist I've

05:03:29.929 --> 05:03:31.929
been there for two years and I

05:03:34.330 --> 05:03:35.333
have not been showing
aggression.

05:03:37.603 --> 05:03:39.603
My therapist said I've been

05:03:43.409 --> 05:03:45.409
learning self imposed control to

05:03:46.879 --> 05:03:49.848
not to always hit people to
learn those things I'm trying as

05:03:50.650 --> 05:03:52.650
a parent and they still want me

05:03:52.752 --> 05:03:54.752
to continue doing all the

05:03:55.354 --> 05:03:57.354
services and repeatedly but they

05:03:57.423 --> 05:03:59.423
have it in their mind they are

05:04:00.226 --> 05:04:02.226
going to terminate my parental

05:04:02.528 --> 05:04:04.596
rights and like my visits have
not been going good.

05:04:06.980 --> 05:04:08.980
I had a thursday visit with my

05:04:08.568 --> 05:04:10.568
daughter miracle and like she

05:04:11.504 --> 05:04:13.404
told me that she wanted to get
adopted.

05:04:14.106 --> 05:04:16.106
There's people telling her stuff

05:04:17.744 --> 05:04:19.744
and excuse me...

05:04:23.282 --> 05:04:25.317
>> thank you take your time.
>> I'm sorry.

05:04:32.791 --> 05:04:34.827
>> don't be sorry.
>> it's very emotional.
>> I understand.
>> I'm trying my best.

05:04:34.827 --> 05:04:37.730
Like I don't know what else to
do.
I've been to all the programs
that they told me to go to.

05:04:38.865 --> 05:04:40.865
And it's like I got the workers

05:04:41.567 --> 05:04:44.436
on my case is a foster care
agency worker and the city.

05:04:46.539 --> 05:04:48.940
They sitting there using
everything against me and I

05:04:49.442 --> 05:04:51.442
don't know like I need help and

05:04:51.844 --> 05:04:53.844
i don't have an advocate and I

05:04:55.582 --> 05:04:57.582
don't trust the acs advocates

05:05:01.921 --> 05:05:04.422
because like when I had.
>> by the way this is brave and

05:05:05.324 --> 05:05:07.324
I appreciate it.

05:05:33.686 --> 05:05:35.686
>> I've been crying all day. They had the nurses

05:05:38.791 --> 05:05:40.325
say that he used the word
delerious.

05:05:42.595 --> 05:05:44.562
>> I just had a baby.
>> they took him straight from

05:05:45.966 --> 05:05:47.966
the hospital I wasn't able I

05:05:48.680 --> 05:05:49.768
always breast-feed my kids it
was very -- 

05:05:50.637 --> 05:05:52.637
what is that called when you

05:05:53.540 --> 05:05:55.741
have they took him away what is
that word?

05:05:56.809 --> 05:05:58.809
When a mother suffers from after

05:06:01.447 --> 05:06:03.616
they have the baby.
>> postpartum depression.

05:06:05.180 --> 05:06:07.653
>> they snatched him and I was
unable to breast-feed him.

05:06:08.521 --> 05:06:10.521
I visited -- 

05:06:12.992 --> 05:06:15.427
now I have virtual visits
because the work back in JANUARY

05:06:17.830 --> 05:06:20.265
and I apologized for that.
I had to do mental health

05:06:22.335 --> 05:06:24.335
services for that.

05:06:24.638 --> 05:06:26.638
And I did their evaluation and

05:06:27.440 --> 05:06:30.420
they keep having me sign hipa
forms telling the judge that I'm

05:06:32.312 --> 05:06:35.213
not signing it then they paste
my name they automatically put

05:06:36.282 --> 05:06:38.383
my name on stuff to sign it.
That is against the law.

05:06:39.219 --> 05:06:42.210
I have to sign it myself.
They cannot paste it.

05:06:44.591 --> 05:06:46.591
They keep getting rid of all my

05:06:48.361 --> 05:06:50.361
workers because and they keep

05:06:51.864 --> 05:06:53.864
getting me upset on my visits my

05:06:54.901 --> 05:06:56.102
virtual visits and I just ignore
them.

05:06:58.138 --> 05:07:00.138
They won't let me video record

05:07:00.474 --> 05:07:01.674
but I secretly video record
them.

05:07:03.944 --> 05:07:05.944
I actually have a court date

05:07:08.281 --> 05:07:10.916
coming up NOVEMBER the third for
tpr.

05:07:14.688 --> 05:07:17.189
And I recently had a court date
OCTOBER the fifth and OCTOBER

05:07:19.359 --> 05:07:21.727
the 14th and they had the lady
get on the stand and keep

05:07:23.997 --> 05:07:25.164
talking about how I assaulted
her.

05:07:26.266 --> 05:07:28.367
And she didn't know my
therapist's name.

05:07:29.936 --> 05:07:31.936
So they took her they said she

05:07:32.639 --> 05:07:35.509
can step down and they put me on
the like they don't have their

05:07:35.509 --> 05:07:37.509
paperwork in order.

05:07:38.780 --> 05:07:39.979
They didn't know my kid's date
of birth.

05:07:41.815 --> 05:07:43.815
They get the address wrong.

05:07:44.184 --> 05:07:46.785
It's just terrible.
And I just want my children back

05:07:48.155 --> 05:07:49.856
because I was born in portland
oregon.

05:07:51.240 --> 05:07:53.240
I was also in foster care.

05:07:53.727 --> 05:07:55.727
They snatched me away from my

05:07:55.762 --> 05:07:57.129
mother when I came to new york
in 1998.

05:07:59.899 --> 05:08:01.899
And I was nine years old and I

05:08:02.350 --> 05:08:04.350
never got adopted.

05:08:04.704 --> 05:08:07.373
I never went back to my mother
until I was 17.

05:08:08.475 --> 05:08:10.475
And they never gave me a high

05:08:10.777 --> 05:08:13.450
school diploma or none of that.
Acs did not help me.

05:08:15.150 --> 05:08:17.950
They gave me a mental illness
and I suffer from it ever since.

05:08:19.419 --> 05:08:21.419
I just want my children back.

05:08:22.756 --> 05:08:24.756
And I just want to leave and go

05:08:24.925 --> 05:08:26.925
back to my hometown and live my

05:08:27.610 --> 05:08:28.294
best life because I am a good
mother.

05:08:30.130 --> 05:08:32.130
I still have my kids' stuff I

05:08:33.000 --> 05:08:35.835
still buy them stuff.
And I don't know why I feel like

05:08:37.971 --> 05:08:40.873
they have like they are getting
mad because I'm telling them

05:08:41.809 --> 05:08:43.809
about their job.

05:08:44.178 --> 05:08:46.178
The acs workers will -- 

05:08:46.947 --> 05:08:48.947
not the acs workers it's foster

05:08:49.383 --> 05:08:51.383
care now because acs is the ones

05:08:52.505 --> 05:08:55.287
that remove your children.
And the to haver care workers is

05:09:04.298 --> 05:09:07.166
the one sitting here I forgot
the name of the work they using
a vendetta against me.
I feel like they are like using

05:09:10.971 --> 05:09:12.571
it in court and just -- 
they are using all the bad

05:09:15.142 --> 05:09:17.278
things that I did instead of the
good things that I did because

05:09:17.278 --> 05:09:19.278
this is my second acs case.

05:09:19.580 --> 05:09:21.580
I had an acs case in 2015.

05:09:27.788 --> 05:09:30.723
I got my daughter back.
NOVEMBER the first.
They gave me my first apartment
in the hood.

05:09:32.860 --> 05:09:34.860
And I've been -- 

05:09:35.663 --> 05:09:38.631
I had problems with that where I
got sexually assaulted there and
I'm moving to staten island now

05:09:39.199 --> 05:09:41.340
from manhattan because I got
attacked recently.

05:09:42.736 --> 05:09:43.936
So I'm going through a lot of
stuff.

05:09:45.720 --> 05:09:47.440
Plus being attacked that is
another story.

05:09:56.830 --> 05:09:58.117
But I'm having problems now with
my virtual visits.
And like they end the visits and

05:09:59.686 --> 05:10:02.555
when my daughter says stuff
inappropriate to me, I try to

05:10:04.570 --> 05:10:06.392
tell the workers but they cut me
off after the visit.

05:10:07.260 --> 05:10:09.796
I speak to them and they cut me
off like they don't care I'm

05:10:10.498 --> 05:10:12.198
sorry that is you're going
through this.

05:10:13.601 --> 05:10:14.934
And they know what they put me
through.

05:10:16.870 --> 05:10:18.870
I've been fighting since 2015.

05:10:19.640 --> 05:10:21.640
I got my daughter back but then

05:10:22.643 --> 05:10:25.177
I had a boyfriend that I knew
for four years.

05:10:26.914 --> 05:10:29.449
I went to the grocery store and
I left my children in the house.

05:10:31.118 --> 05:10:33.118
And when I came back, I saw him

05:10:33.721 --> 05:10:35.888
in front of the cvs I kicked him
out.

05:10:39.590 --> 05:10:41.590
And the judge that is on my case

05:10:41.940 --> 05:10:43.997
now she gave me the order for
protection.
I don't know why she is putting

05:10:43.998 --> 05:10:46.800
me through the stuff.
I felt like I did what I was

05:10:47.802 --> 05:10:49.536
supposed to do and got rid of
that boyfriend.

05:10:50.400 --> 05:10:51.404
Because he should never did
that.

05:10:52.740 --> 05:10:54.740
He saw me for my daughter the

05:10:54.908 --> 05:10:56.109
first time this is my second
case.

05:11:00.214 --> 05:11:02.214
So I just want my children back.

05:11:03.484 --> 05:11:04.718
And I need help like I've
been -- 

05:11:08.220 --> 05:11:10.900
I got a petition out now on-line
with change original.

05:11:12.760 --> 05:11:15.328
So far I got 67 signatures and
everybody that know me

05:11:18.900 --> 05:11:20.900
personally and I still stay in

05:11:21.202 --> 05:11:23.202
touch with my foster parent and

05:11:25.106 --> 05:11:27.240
the providers with opwdd when I
was in foster care.

05:11:29.376 --> 05:11:31.679
And they tell me to do all this
stuff and I told them I did

05:11:31.679 --> 05:11:33.679
everything I can.

05:11:34.648 --> 05:11:36.648
I feel like I'm not being heard

05:11:38.190 --> 05:11:39.820
and I'm glad that y'all are
having this today.

05:11:40.721 --> 05:11:42.721
I appreciate it.

05:11:42.857 --> 05:11:44.857
I just want to get my children

05:11:46.527 --> 05:11:48.796
back and drop the whole case
because I didn't leave my

05:11:48.796 --> 05:11:51.497
children in the house.
I did what I was supposed to do

05:11:53.501 --> 05:11:54.802
and they still came and took my
kids.

05:11:58.600 --> 05:12:00.600
It was several calls and you

05:12:01.242 --> 05:12:03.276
know, I don't want to talk no
more my anxiety.

05:12:03.911 --> 05:12:05.911
>> I appreciate it by the way.

05:12:06.480 --> 05:12:09.216
I too, have anxiety.
And so I understand it's brutal

05:12:09.216 --> 05:12:11.952
to live with.
But the fact that the state is

05:12:12.420 --> 05:12:14.588
part of the reason why it's
happening to you I'm sorry that

05:12:20.895 --> 05:12:23.431
is happening.
>> I was born in portland
oregon.
And I feel like the way I got
treated is wrong.

05:12:23.431 --> 05:12:24.697
And I am a good parent to my
children.

05:12:25.666 --> 05:12:27.666
It wasn't me it's the people

05:12:28.737 --> 05:12:30.700
that I surrounded myself with.
I've learned.

05:12:30.839 --> 05:12:32.839
I don't let nobody in my house.

05:12:33.141 --> 05:12:35.141
i got my own apartment.

05:12:39.714 --> 05:12:42.148
And to get my mind off of what
is going on, I've joined many
organizations.
I've been protesting and

05:12:43.951 --> 05:12:46.387
rallying and I've been doing
good things for myself.

05:12:46.721 --> 05:12:49.490
I've stayed in therapy.
I'm still in therapy.

05:12:50.425 --> 05:12:52.425
I'm continuing even though I got

05:12:57.598 --> 05:13:00.500
my certificates, for 25, 2019 I
had got three certificates on

05:13:02.604 --> 05:13:05.390
several occasions like back in
2015 anger management classes

05:13:23.558 --> 05:13:25.558
and stuff.

05:13:31.566 --> 05:13:33.566
This was very helpful for us.

05:13:35.536 --> 05:13:37.536
>> since the past 2018 or 2019

05:13:39.608 --> 05:13:41.608
when I spoke with DR. Lynch.

05:13:42.477 --> 05:13:44.477
>> since 2019 or 2018 when you

05:13:46.347 --> 05:13:48.347
spoke with DR. Lynch here,

05:13:51.185 --> 05:13:53.687
since that time, what points did
you now what points do you think

05:13:54.856 --> 05:13:56.856
are the main points in order to

05:13:58.126 --> 05:14:00.126
fix completely this broke system

05:14:03.898 --> 05:14:06.767
with the family court?
With the family court?
>> yes.
>> that is a different
conversation I'm ready to have.

05:14:07.101 --> 05:14:09.101
We need to talk and get coffee.

05:14:10.438 --> 05:14:12.438
There is a bill called keira's

05:14:12.608 --> 05:14:14.608
law that seeks to reform the way

05:14:14.676 --> 05:14:17.110
that custody is given.
We'll have a conversation about

05:14:17.279 --> 05:14:19.313
that off line.
>> sounds good.

05:14:23.985 --> 05:14:25.985
>> thank you, sir.

05:14:26.521 --> 05:14:28.521
>> my next panel, anna arons

05:14:31.627 --> 05:14:33.627
from nyu law and chris gottlieb

05:14:34.830 --> 05:14:36.830
from nyu family defense clinic.

05:14:41.469 --> 05:14:43.469
Thank you.

05:14:43.671 --> 05:14:45.671
Good afternoon.

05:14:48.277 --> 05:14:50.811
>> good afternoon.
Floor is yours.

05:14:51.613 --> 05:14:54.482
>> I'm anna arons and I am an
acting assistant professor at

05:14:55.160 --> 05:14:57.160
the nyu school of law.

05:14:57.452 --> 05:14:59.453
I hope my testimony today can
help to address some of the

05:15:00.655 --> 05:15:02.655
questions that you raised with

05:15:03.191 --> 05:15:05.960
ms. Mack relating to this
question of if it's possible to

05:15:06.829 --> 05:15:08.829
imagine a system without acs or

05:15:11.266 --> 05:15:13.268
a system with a more diminished
acs.

05:15:13.268 --> 05:15:15.436
I've studied how the family
regulation city was affected by

05:15:16.504 --> 05:15:18.500
covid and the changes on child
safety.

05:15:18.573 --> 05:15:19.840
My most important find something
this...

05:15:22.278 --> 05:15:24.278
Even as the family regulation

05:15:25.848 --> 05:15:28.349
system shrank to half the normal
size children stayed just as

05:15:30.619 --> 05:15:32.619
safe acs's normal operations

05:15:33.688 --> 05:15:36.423
brutal and police poor black and
latinx families.

05:15:46.668 --> 05:15:49.104
My findings were supposed by the
testimony given to the city
council regarding child safety
during covid.

05:15:49.104 --> 05:15:51.104
Children were not endangered by

05:15:54.976 --> 05:15:57.513
staying home because the same
time the acs was forced to step
back mutual aid networks stepped
up and families received cash

05:15:57.513 --> 05:16:00.480
from the government allowing
them the resources to meet their
own needs without strings

05:16:00.582 --> 05:16:02.582
attached and without the force

05:16:03.218 --> 05:16:05.486
of acs surveillance and services
behind them.

05:16:07.556 --> 05:16:10.457
The city shutdown in spring 2020
forced a reduction of the family

05:16:10.926 --> 05:16:13.327
regulation system reducing 40%
the number of reports,

05:16:13.628 --> 05:16:16.564
investigations and filings.
A surveillance of families in

05:16:17.266 --> 05:16:20.201
schools and homes decreased.
We have talked about mandated

05:16:23.205 --> 05:16:25.205
reporters prior to the shutdown

05:16:25.540 --> 05:16:27.540
of schools last spring, whatever

05:16:29.711 --> 05:16:32.212
spring that was, spring 2020,
mandated reporters made up at

05:16:32.848 --> 05:16:34.848
least 33% of reports in the

05:16:35.951 --> 05:16:38.886
city, 25% were specific sli from
school personnel.

05:16:41.123 --> 05:16:43.824
>> give me that number again.
>> 25% were from school

05:16:45.127 --> 05:16:47.928
personnel and 33% but that
number was wrong I don't have

05:16:48.964 --> 05:16:50.698
the exact number but it was more
than half.

05:16:53.769 --> 05:16:55.769
>> the calls to the scr 25% were

05:17:00.209 --> 05:17:02.977
from schools?
>> and more than half were from
mandated reporters.

05:17:06.381 --> 05:17:09.217
In the time after that when
reports and investigations were

05:17:11.287 --> 05:17:12.887
reduced by 40% family courts
began accepting only cases in

05:17:16.580 --> 05:17:18.459
the city where they were seeking
to remove children from their
homes.
Of particular note though acs

05:17:25.101 --> 05:17:27.470
resaned its power to file cases
only half as many children were
placed in foster care as a
result of acs' applications in

05:17:27.470 --> 05:17:28.703
spring 2020 compared to a year
earlier.

05:17:34.510 --> 05:17:37.345
This dramatic drop suggests
during the shutdown acs began
assessing the cases in which it
might seek a removal and as a

05:17:46.589 --> 05:17:48.824
result holding off on filing
some of the cases that would
have sought a removal.
This gives credence to an

05:17:48.824 --> 05:17:51.393
argument made by parents that
normal times acs does not limits
self to seeking removals in
cases that only meet the legal

05:17:51.393 --> 05:17:53.393
standard and seeks removals

05:17:53.862 --> 05:17:55.862
where there is no risk, the

05:17:55.898 --> 05:17:57.898
frustration with parents.

05:17:59.234 --> 05:18:01.234
As a whole, as I mentioned acs

05:18:01.804 --> 05:18:03.804
had no adverse effect on child

05:18:04.400 --> 05:18:06.875
safety based on any number of
metrics.
In the early months of covid

05:18:07.743 --> 05:18:09.743
shutdown the number of child

05:18:11.547 --> 05:18:13.547
fatalities dropped by 25%

05:18:21.230 --> 05:18:23.259
comparing 2019 to spring 2020.
I should note that child
fatalities are extremely rare.
And extremely tragic but they

05:18:23.259 --> 05:18:26.270
often end up driving child
welfare policy more broadly.

05:18:31.266 --> 05:18:33.670
They dropped by 25%, 2019-2020
they dropped by 15%.

05:18:33.635 --> 05:18:35.971
Beyond the child fatality.
>> is that just about reporting

05:18:38.207 --> 05:18:39.941
or is that about the actual
numbers?

05:18:40.943 --> 05:18:43.545
>> I would argue that it is the
actual numbers and those are the

05:18:43.612 --> 05:18:45.612
kinds of tragedies that are

05:18:46.849 --> 05:18:49.517
difficult to under report during
crisis like covid those are the

05:18:58.561 --> 05:19:00.730
things that will be coming to
someone's attention.
Commissioner handle reported
there have been no change in

05:19:00.730 --> 05:19:02.430
emergency room usage patterns
and no change in the proportion

05:19:03.632 --> 05:19:06.000
of abuse to neglect reports.
Moving forward there has that

05:19:06.635 --> 05:19:09.570
been a rebound effect.
That as children have begun to

05:19:09.739 --> 05:19:12.641
return to schools and public
life and back under the

05:19:12.909 --> 05:19:15.610
surveillance of mandated
reporters the number of reports

05:19:16.946 --> 05:19:18.946
has not reached previous levels.

05:19:26.688 --> 05:19:29.158
>> why is that?
That is counter intuitive?
Why aren't you getter more
calls?
>> the number has absolutely

05:19:29.158 --> 05:19:30.726
increased and before we were
down 40% now the number of

05:19:36.165 --> 05:19:37.732
reports is down by 5%.
There is a certain amount of

05:20:23.460 --> 05:20:25.581
variance that is year to year.
That's important to note the rit

05:20:27.417 --> 05:20:29.417
of reports has not changed it's

05:20:30.853 --> 05:20:33.121
remained steady at 35% from 2018
forward within a couple

05:20:33.256 --> 05:20:35.924
percentage points.
And that is significant as well

05:20:36.760 --> 05:20:38.760
in that if reporters returned to

05:20:38.929 --> 05:20:40.929
the field and begun reporting

05:20:41.131 --> 05:20:43.899
this backlog of valid past
concerns we would expect for

05:20:45.335 --> 05:20:46.935
there to be a higher rate as
well.

05:20:48.171 --> 05:20:50.839
>> can I ask you a question?
I am under the impression since

05:20:52.508 --> 05:20:54.508
covid there's been a huge

05:20:54.711 --> 05:20:57.546
significant increase in most
adverse childhood experiences

05:20:59.149 --> 05:21:01.149
and trauma including I have

05:21:01.184 --> 05:21:03.785
anecdotal evidence that there's
more calls to the hotlines for

05:21:04.520 --> 05:21:06.520
child abuse or domestic violence

05:21:07.560 --> 05:21:09.560
those things.

05:21:09.792 --> 05:21:11.693
But the reporting numbers aren't
keeping pace.

05:21:11.962 --> 05:21:14.663
>> that is certainly the
narrative that was presented in

05:21:15.599 --> 05:21:18.434
the media especially last
spring.
>> is it not accurate?

05:21:18.601 --> 05:21:21.537
>> every number that I have
looked at from the last 18

05:21:28.411 --> 05:21:30.914
months and these are numbers
especially with the subject
stainiation rate this is
something the commissioner cited

05:21:30.914 --> 05:21:33.749
that indicates the narrative was
completely false it was built
out of the fear what would

05:21:36.486 --> 05:21:38.887
happen if we let black and and
latinx children stay home with

05:21:39.890 --> 05:21:41.890
the families.

05:21:42.258 --> 05:21:44.526
The idea that the people will
endanger their children.

05:21:46.620 --> 05:21:48.898
>> by accident we tested what
life would be like without the
system?

05:21:49.566 --> 05:21:52.468
>> you come to the title of my
paper.

05:21:54.537 --> 05:21:56.105
>> indiana tended abolition and
experiment.

05:21:57.173 --> 05:21:59.173
>> I will adapt your title.

05:22:00.443 --> 05:22:02.544
>> is that the same all the way
through was there any

05:22:04.460 --> 05:22:06.182
difference, any increase at the
beginning of the pandemic when

05:22:07.484 --> 05:22:09.484
there were more restrictions?

05:22:09.786 --> 05:22:12.288
As opposed to later when they
started to slack en off a little

05:22:12.822 --> 05:22:15.240
bit and the kids were getting
out to play?

05:22:15.525 --> 05:22:18.393
>> the number of reports and
investigations inched back
upward.

05:22:19.620 --> 05:22:21.620
But over the last year, the

05:22:21.965 --> 05:22:23.965
trends the rate at which it's

05:22:24.701 --> 05:22:27.169
come back up mirrored the up and
down that you would see in a

05:22:28.380 --> 05:22:30.380
normal year.

05:22:31.441 --> 05:22:33.642
In 2018, 2019, there's always a
certain variation over the

05:22:34.100 --> 05:22:36.100
course of the year as children

05:22:36.713 --> 05:22:38.980
are in and out of school home
for thanksgiving and christmas.

05:22:39.683 --> 05:22:41.683
As we are seeing the reports

05:22:47.891 --> 05:22:50.493
creep up and investigations
creep up the trend is that it is
still below those previous
numbers but along those trend
lines.

05:22:50.493 --> 05:22:52.161
But there wasn't anything like a
huge number of reports early in

05:22:53.620 --> 05:22:55.130
covid and then a drop or
anything where there was a spike

05:22:57.401 --> 05:22:59.401
as soon as children last summer

05:22:59.770 --> 05:23:02.405
when children were back out if
public life again.

05:23:03.607 --> 05:23:05.776
>> one last in the weeds
questions and I will let you

05:23:05.776 --> 05:23:08.544
continue.
How many I know that the kids

05:23:10.213 --> 05:23:12.213
weren't in school.

05:23:13.516 --> 05:23:15.516
So how about everybody else?

05:23:15.953 --> 05:23:17.953
Less likely to go to the doctor.

05:23:17.988 --> 05:23:20.623
What other mandated reporters
are they not around I'm trying

05:23:21.910 --> 05:23:23.626
to get the sense.
>> if we are going to go down

05:23:24.995 --> 05:23:27.863
the list of a mandated reporter
it's everyone from shelter

05:23:28.631 --> 05:23:30.631
workers who obviously if

05:23:30.733 --> 05:23:33.603
children are living in shelters,
medical professionals, it is I

05:23:34.338 --> 05:23:36.338
think school personnel.

05:23:36.373 --> 05:23:37.673
>> it's everybody I've seen the
list.

05:23:38.509 --> 05:23:40.509
>> it's everybody.

05:23:40.911 --> 05:23:43.813
There were other mandated
reporter categories dropped but

05:23:44.281 --> 05:23:45.548
not as significantly as
teachers.

05:23:46.616 --> 05:23:48.616
Law enforcement was making is

05:23:50.888 --> 05:23:52.888
always a mandated reporter they

05:23:54.391 --> 05:23:56.391
made slightly fewer reports.

05:23:56.527 --> 05:23:59.161
Just side note that I have not
delved into is the number of

05:24:00.564 --> 05:24:02.564
reports from community members

05:24:05.101 --> 05:24:06.669
or non-mandated reporters those
rose.
>> increased.

05:24:08.239 --> 05:24:10.239
Which is good news from a human

05:24:10.241 --> 05:24:12.509
perspective that if kids -- 
>> noticing a problem and

05:24:12.509 --> 05:24:14.545
concerned.
>> not around the teachers.

05:24:14.545 --> 05:24:16.545
Go ahead.

05:24:17.114 --> 05:24:19.114
>> and the other thing I want on

05:24:20.517 --> 05:24:22.685
the ray of substantiation
nationwide studies have shown

05:24:23.219 --> 05:24:25.219
that if there are fewer

05:24:25.356 --> 05:24:27.624
investigations and fewer
reports, then investigations

05:24:28.959 --> 05:24:31.828
tend to be more thorough and
accurate.
Which as the workers have more

05:24:32.229 --> 05:24:35.640
time to conduct them.
You would think perhaps if there

05:24:36.867 --> 05:24:39.602
is a smaller body of reports we
might even expect for the rate

05:24:40.370 --> 05:24:43.173
to climb based on workers having
more time to investigate them

05:24:44.800 --> 05:24:46.800
but that also did not happen.

05:24:46.343 --> 05:24:49.245
And I will quote commissioner's
summary of the data which was

05:24:51.215 --> 05:24:53.215
there's no indicators of a

05:24:53.250 --> 05:24:55.251
larger undetected charges of
child maltreatment.

05:24:56.553 --> 05:24:57.820
>> that is in your testimony
>> yes.

05:24:58.755 --> 05:25:01.424
And the paper is attached to it
if you want to dig into the

05:25:01.959 --> 05:25:03.959
numbers it seems you might.

05:25:06.463 --> 05:25:09.320
>> I might not today, though.
>> based on all of this I argue

05:25:09.433 --> 05:25:11.433
the last year-and-a-half

05:25:12.469 --> 05:25:15.237
represents a rare opportunity a
rupture that made it possible to

05:25:15.238 --> 05:25:17.908
continue with business and
forced us to reconsider the

05:25:18.910 --> 05:25:21.611
status quo in all areas
including child safety and these

05:25:22.613 --> 05:25:24.613
18 months can serve as a model

05:25:25.516 --> 05:25:28.418
of a more equitable path forward
showing we need not destroy

05:25:29.153 --> 05:25:31.787
families to keep children safe.
The challenge we face now is how

05:25:33.523 --> 05:25:35.725
to hold on to the gains so the
hard-earned lessons of the

05:25:35.793 --> 05:25:37.793
pandemic do not go to waste.

05:25:37.828 --> 05:25:39.828
And to that end, I think there

05:25:40.131 --> 05:25:42.131
are a few ways we could start

05:25:42.833 --> 05:25:45.680
moving in that direction.
>> shifting anonymous to

05:25:46.870 --> 05:25:48.870
confidential reports would allow

05:25:50.374 --> 05:25:52.374
for ocfs to screen for more

05:25:53.277 --> 05:25:55.277
fraudulent reports up front.

05:25:55.680 --> 05:25:57.614
And on the point of mandated
reporters with the theme of the

05:26:00.217 --> 05:26:02.886
day, I would see no need to have
mandated reporters but I would

05:26:03.287 --> 05:26:05.888
highlight a thing that surprised
me was learning that teachers

05:26:06.990 --> 05:26:08.990
nationwide with the category of

05:26:10.528 --> 05:26:12.796
reporters most likely to make
unsubstantiated reports.

05:26:13.698 --> 05:26:15.698
They are more likely than any

05:26:16.834 --> 05:26:19.269
other reported groopman dated or
non-mandated to make reports

05:26:19.937 --> 05:26:21.937
that find the investigation

05:26:23.941 --> 05:26:25.975
finds have no basis.
As well -- 

05:26:27.612 --> 05:26:29.612
>> that is quite scary.

05:26:30.810 --> 05:26:32.849
>> and also nationwide not just
in new york.

05:26:34.218 --> 05:26:36.218
I think as well as echoing what

05:26:36.587 --> 05:26:38.587
many have said requiring parents

05:26:39.790 --> 05:26:41.790
be informed their rights at at

05:26:43.227 --> 05:26:45.227
outset to reduce the imbalance

05:26:46.598 --> 05:26:49.166
and the courts are not making
weighty decisions on family

05:26:49.634 --> 05:26:52.102
fration separations and seeing
child safety as pitted against

05:26:53.971 --> 05:26:56.906
parents knowing their rights, it
runs up against this idea that

05:26:57.274 --> 05:26:59.274
children are themselves made

05:26:59.476 --> 05:27:02.311
less safe if their parents don't
know their rights f we are

05:27:03.348 --> 05:27:05.348
putting children in I situations

05:27:05.350 --> 05:27:07.350
where case workers come into the

05:27:07.652 --> 05:27:09.652
homes and strip search children

05:27:10.821 --> 05:27:13.490
and taking a child out of a bath
tub that is short of removing a

05:27:15.526 --> 05:27:17.994
child from their parent's care
without the parent have the

05:27:18.362 --> 05:27:20.998
chance to speak with an attorney
that is harming not just the

05:27:22.300 --> 05:27:24.300
parent but the child as well.

05:27:24.435 --> 05:27:26.435
This idea of thinking of parents

05:27:27.400 --> 05:27:29.640
rights and children's lights
being intertwined that we cannot

05:27:29.640 --> 05:27:31.640
separate out.

05:27:32.476 --> 05:27:34.377
It is a matter how do we keep
families safe together.

05:27:36.414 --> 05:27:38.414
I also would just echo the point

05:27:39.951 --> 05:27:41.951
that there is as much as I think

05:27:42.987 --> 05:27:45.856
mutual aid and preventative
services are preferable to

05:27:46.491 --> 05:27:49.259
removing children from their
families, not treating

05:27:50.961 --> 05:27:52.961
preventative services aa panacea

05:27:53.797 --> 05:27:55.866
and looking at preventative
services and looking at

05:27:56.434 --> 05:27:59.136
surveillance and how we can
continue to give families money

05:27:59.971 --> 05:28:01.405
outside of the family regulation
system.

05:28:04.800 --> 05:28:06.800
Not how do we increase acs'

05:28:06.711 --> 05:28:09.450
budget but instead how do we
insure that families have money.

05:28:09.714 --> 05:28:11.548
>> I promise in the next
month-and-a-half everybody will

05:28:12.450 --> 05:28:14.251
see a mechanism that we have
created to do that.

05:28:14.786 --> 05:28:17.200
And you can review it and tell
us if you like it.

05:28:20.858 --> 05:28:23.627
>> I can't wait.
On that point looking at the

05:28:23.761 --> 05:28:25.761
last 18 months where we have

05:28:25.863 --> 05:28:27.863
federal and state entitlements

05:28:28.320 --> 05:28:30.668
that are leading to a drop in
child poverty in a time where

05:28:32.370 --> 05:28:34.370
the country has been to put it

05:28:34.939 --> 05:28:36.939
mildly a bit of a mess the fact

05:28:37.208 --> 05:28:39.743
we can have a drop in child
poverty shows there is a promise

05:28:41.345 --> 05:28:43.513
in putting cash in the hands of
families.
>> to invest.
Yes.

05:28:43.614 --> 05:28:45.614
I agree.

05:28:45.683 --> 05:28:47.683
>> so in short, we can address

05:28:47.786 --> 05:28:49.786
child poverty and child safety

05:28:50.880 --> 05:28:52.891
by providing families the
monetary support without strings

05:28:53.825 --> 05:28:56.260
attached and building rebust
community support networks and

05:28:58.496 --> 05:29:01.298
we cannot go back to the
precovid business as usual.

05:29:02.466 --> 05:29:05.690
>> the last point to say.
When I say we need to invest.

05:29:05.203 --> 05:29:07.805
The federal government is trying
to do their part.

05:29:08.273 --> 05:29:10.407
So they are investing the state
has been nowhere.

05:29:10.542 --> 05:29:12.409
We need to get on that.
Thank you very much.

05:29:16.281 --> 05:29:18.281
>> thank you.

05:29:18.983 --> 05:29:20.983
>> CHAIRMAN Hevesi,

05:29:20.985 --> 05:29:23.621
assemblymember byrnes thank you
for conducting this timely and

05:29:24.656 --> 05:29:27.391
important hearing.
I had prepared testimony about

05:29:28.660 --> 05:29:31.428
anonymous reporting.
But it's in the record and I'm

05:29:33.131 --> 05:29:35.632
not going to read it.
CHAIRMAN Hevesi is the sponsor

05:29:35.767 --> 05:29:38.168
of that bill.
I know he understands the

05:29:40.172 --> 05:29:42.172
importance of moving from

05:29:42.240 --> 05:29:44.909
anonymous to kstled shall
reporting and -- 

05:29:46.111 --> 05:29:48.111
confidential reporting and you

05:29:48.179 --> 05:29:50.247
have more stamina.
Instead of reading my testimony

05:29:50.615 --> 05:29:52.615
I would like to comment on two

05:29:52.850 --> 05:29:55.819
of the issues that have come up
and you've asked important

05:29:59.558 --> 05:30:00.725
questions about.
And

05:30:04.496 --> 05:30:06.496
I think no one could have sat

05:30:07.532 --> 05:30:09.532
here today and not understood

05:30:09.801 --> 05:30:12.169
that the single loudest,
clearest message from the

05:30:13.271 --> 05:30:15.873
communities who are directly
impacted by children's services

05:30:18.760 --> 05:30:20.760
is that the very first most

05:30:20.545 --> 05:30:22.880
basic step toward addressing the
racial injustice of the system

05:30:24.883 --> 05:30:26.650
is telling families their rights
rights.

05:30:27.118 --> 05:30:28.952
Nothing could be more basic than
that.

05:30:30.880 --> 05:30:32.257
Now, CHAIRMAN Hevesi you raised
a very important question and I

05:30:33.225 --> 05:30:35.526
know it is a question that
others have as well and I want

05:30:39.798 --> 05:30:42.633
to make sure -- 
following conversations.
Why in which you previously

05:30:43.802 --> 05:30:45.769
raised some of these concerns,
plan the parent legislative

05:30:46.710 --> 05:30:48.872
action network has worked with
the assembly member

05:30:50.743 --> 05:30:52.743
walker to added some language to

05:30:52.778 --> 05:30:55.546
the miranda bill which would
clarify what was always
intended.

05:30:56.481 --> 05:30:59.183
Which is that, the miranda bill
does not create new rights as

05:30:59.851 --> 05:31:01.619
has been said repeatedly here
today.

05:31:02.530 --> 05:31:03.320
And, it does not endanger
children.

05:31:04.656 --> 05:31:07.124
And so, what the bill says with
the new language, and this is

05:31:08.527 --> 05:31:11.429
also true in the city council
where, analogous miranda

05:31:12.464 --> 05:31:14.464
legislation is pending, and -- 

05:31:14.866 --> 05:31:17.835
gentleman smaller in scope,
right?
>> only smaller in the sense

05:31:18.603 --> 05:31:20.271
that it -- it applies only to
new york city.

05:31:20.972 --> 05:31:23.240
The substantive rights are
actually, exactly the same.

05:31:23.475 --> 05:31:25.777
They've made some changes since
it was first introduced.

05:31:26.312 --> 05:31:28.312
It is now perfectly analogous in

05:31:28.514 --> 05:31:30.514
terms of the rights, and also,

05:31:30.916 --> 05:31:32.916
in terms of clarifying the point

05:31:34.119 --> 05:31:36.587
that I know it is key, to you to
address, which is, we're telling

05:31:38.890 --> 05:31:40.890
people the rights they have,

05:31:42.795 --> 05:31:45.129
and, we're making ex-police
ex-police it in statute that of

05:31:45.464 --> 05:31:48.660
course the child protective
worker does not need to stop and

05:31:49.635 --> 05:31:52.403
give those rights if there is an
emergency situation underway.

05:31:53.638 --> 05:31:55.739
I want to take us back to what
joyce Mcmill lane said at the

05:31:56.608 --> 05:31:58.608
very outset which is that

05:31:59.578 --> 05:32:02.514
new york law is clear, and that
there are three situations in

05:32:03.682 --> 05:32:05.682
which an acs worker is allowed

05:32:35.648 --> 05:32:37.648
into your home.

05:32:37.817 --> 05:32:39.884
again that has to be bazest
based, this is not written into

05:32:40.352 --> 05:32:42.352
the statute but it is clear from

05:32:43.756 --> 05:32:46.324
the case law, that that also
entails reasonable cause to

05:32:46.491 --> 05:32:48.594
believe that there is imminent
risk to a child's life or

05:32:48.594 --> 05:32:50.594
health.

05:32:50.962 --> 05:32:52.962
That's clear in new york state

05:32:53.199 --> 05:32:55.467
law, and the united states
constitution fourth amendment

05:32:56.435 --> 05:32:58.537
applies to child protective
workers just as -- like it does

05:32:58.537 --> 05:33:00.537
to the police.

05:33:01.140 --> 05:33:02.607
They need a court order or
exigent circumstances.

05:33:03.375 --> 05:33:05.776
And all of the miranda
legislation is asking to do, is

05:33:07.746 --> 05:33:10.415
to say, if there are not exigent
circumstances, you need to tell

05:33:10.917 --> 05:33:12.917
people their rights before you

05:33:12.985 --> 05:33:14.985
ask to come into their home.

05:33:15.521 --> 05:33:18.323
>> okay, then let me jump in.
So, and that is the exact point

05:33:18.891 --> 05:33:21.859
where I believe that we're going
to run into a lot of -- I MAY be
wrong.

05:33:23.428 --> 05:33:25.530
I MAY be misreading my
colleagues.
This is not the first time I

05:33:26.132 --> 05:33:28.132
have misread but I believe that,

05:33:31.170 --> 05:33:33.170
it is the timing that is the

05:34:48.447 --> 05:34:50.447
issue.

05:46:15.103 --> 05:46:17.103
>> I apologize for leaving.

05:46:17.474 --> 05:46:20.410
I do have another commitment.
But they're going to make sure I

05:46:20.275 --> 05:46:22.710
have copies of everybody's
testimony and I know I will be

05:46:23.612 --> 05:46:25.612
talking with the chair in the

05:46:31.686 --> 05:46:34.322
very near future.
Thank you for taking the

05:46:34.757 --> 05:46:36.925
400-mile drive to be with us.
We appreciate it.

05:46:37.726 --> 05:46:39.160
>> I love new york city.
>> thank you.

05:46:41.797 --> 05:46:43.797
>> even queens.

05:46:45.660 --> 05:46:47.568
>> you everybody for being
patient.
I appreciate it.

05:46:48.370 --> 05:46:50.370
MR. Tony, the floor is yours.

05:46:53.609 --> 05:46:55.609
>> thank you.

05:46:57.112 --> 05:46:59.112
>> my name is devon tony,

05:46:59.181 --> 05:47:01.283
founder of the ink project.
I'm a community leader and

05:47:01.283 --> 05:47:03.283
activist.

05:47:03.485 --> 05:47:04.985
We do with mostly adults and we
cook food.

05:47:07.757 --> 05:47:09.757
We give out food bags and newly

05:47:10.426 --> 05:47:12.426
or lightly used clothing.

05:47:14.960 --> 05:47:16.960
And as a peer specialist, we

05:47:16.465 --> 05:47:18.465
counsel families and do it 24/7.

05:47:18.467 --> 05:47:20.467
Recently I have found it harder

05:47:20.535 --> 05:47:22.535
to do my job because I notice

05:47:25.140 --> 05:47:27.876
that government officials are
handing out grants and money to

05:47:27.877 --> 05:47:29.877
organizations that have last

05:47:31.714 --> 05:47:33.714
year and every one of my 45

05:47:35.851 --> 05:47:38.220
years, proven to be
non-effective.
So we have government

05:47:38.220 --> 05:47:40.220
organizations surviving while

05:47:41.456 --> 05:47:44.920
those that are affected and
victimized go out and have to

05:47:45.610 --> 05:47:47.195
victimize their neighbors
because they're also struggling

05:47:47.496 --> 05:47:49.496
and those happen in the

05:47:50.733 --> 05:47:52.733
neighborhoods where I'm from.

05:47:53.200 --> 05:47:55.200
Long island, brentwood long

05:47:55.137 --> 05:47:56.404
island, hampstead long island,
freeport.

05:47:57.339 --> 05:47:59.339
They say it's the safest place

05:48:00.843 --> 05:48:03.144
in america long island, but
other states don't know about

05:48:05.114 --> 05:48:07.114
the hempsteads and the ones

05:48:10.486 --> 05:48:13.354
among the highest crime rates in
america.
In the 13th percentile.

05:48:13.422 --> 05:48:16.570
It's that high but there is a
reason for that which I'll get

05:48:18.528 --> 05:48:20.929
to in a minute.
There is only one way to

05:48:22.980 --> 05:48:24.980
describe the department of

05:48:24.967 --> 05:48:26.967
social services, C.P.S., aps,

05:48:28.103 --> 05:48:30.738
and foster care system.
Unhelpful and damaging to many

05:48:34.900 --> 05:48:36.143
of the children that it serves.
My experience and the severe

05:48:37.747 --> 05:48:40.548
damage it has caused me was
equivalent to taking an apple

05:48:42.351 --> 05:48:44.351
just freshly picked and tossed

05:48:44.620 --> 05:48:45.820
repeatedly until it cracked
open.

05:48:47.456 --> 05:48:49.456
After the slightest damage to an

05:48:50.359 --> 05:48:51.993
apple, it starts to slowly
decay.

05:48:52.528 --> 05:48:54.528
Imagine how fast the decay is

05:48:54.931 --> 05:48:56.931
when completely exposed and

05:48:57.330 --> 05:48:59.330
broken into little pieces.

05:48:59.468 --> 05:49:02.303
That's my life in a nutshell at
45 years old since being in

05:49:02.405 --> 05:49:04.405
foster care from the age of

05:49:06.809 --> 05:49:08.809
three years old starting.

05:49:09.211 --> 05:49:11.211
Complete decay from that point

05:49:11.214 --> 05:49:13.649
on.
Alt 45 I found myself constantly

05:49:14.684 --> 05:49:16.684
trying to cope with life as a

05:49:19.555 --> 05:49:21.555
person exposed to too much and

05:49:22.691 --> 05:49:24.691
along the way, I realized that

05:49:25.600 --> 05:49:26.761
that has been -- that I wasn't
mostly affected.

05:49:29.299 --> 05:49:31.299
I wasn't the one most affected I

05:49:31.334 --> 05:49:33.334
say that with all due respect to

05:49:34.270 --> 05:49:36.972
those who committed suicide or
have been hospitalized due to

05:49:37.807 --> 05:49:40.241
the system and how they were
treated in the system.

05:49:41.760 --> 05:49:43.770
At age three I was taken from my
mom and all I can remember is

05:49:44.790 --> 05:49:46.790
that lady who touched me in ways

05:49:47.117 --> 05:49:49.117
only an adult should touch

05:49:50.860 --> 05:49:52.860
another adult.

05:49:53.456 --> 05:49:55.456
That was the beginning of my

05:50:05.668 --> 05:50:07.668
trauma at age 5 at a home in bay

05:50:09.605 --> 05:50:11.605
shore, I remember jehovah

05:50:11.607 --> 05:50:13.607
witness this foster family was

05:50:13.910 --> 05:50:15.910
to the public, but to me they

05:50:15.978 --> 05:50:17.978
were my biggest nightmare and my

05:50:20.884 --> 05:50:23.485
biggest fears I still have
cigarette burns as a reminder of

05:50:25.688 --> 05:50:27.688
the horrors I had to endure.

05:50:29.580 --> 05:50:31.580
I was locked in closets I was

05:50:32.295 --> 05:50:34.295
burned with cigarettes.

05:50:34.797 --> 05:50:37.298
I wasn't fed and I was beaten if
I used the bathroom in the

05:50:37.968 --> 05:50:39.968
closet I would say anywhere

05:50:44.474 --> 05:50:47.750
between 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 days.
I lashed out and told the social

05:50:47.377 --> 05:50:49.377
workers but I only remember my

05:50:51.130 --> 05:50:53.315
mother coming to help me run
away they did zero.

05:50:53.783 --> 05:50:56.619
nothing but I've heard the
excuses later on in life when I

05:50:56.753 --> 05:50:58.753
complained when I was older and

05:50:59.589 --> 05:51:02.250
they would say well that's a
good foster parent, that's a

05:51:02.250 --> 05:51:04.226
good foster home.
We can't get rid of them.

05:51:05.161 --> 05:51:07.763
What are we going to do?
We'll get talk to them.

05:51:08.998 --> 05:51:11.866
You are talking about sexual
abuse.
There is nothing to talk about
that.

05:51:15.172 --> 05:51:17.172
What is there to talk about?

05:51:17.707 --> 05:51:20.342
Foster home wasn't my last stop
I went from there to group

05:51:21.770 --> 05:51:23.770
homes, residential homes and

05:51:24.147 --> 05:51:26.147
lock ups for juveniles then jail

05:51:27.150 --> 05:51:29.150
then prison arownt 20 plus years

05:51:30.320 --> 05:51:32.555
to be exact nobody to this day
paid for the crimes committed

05:51:34.240 --> 05:51:36.240
against me as a child but the

05:51:37.260 --> 05:51:39.428
law quickly punishes me and
anyone especially black men for

05:51:40.797 --> 05:51:43.650
the actions that are
consequences of the abuse that

05:51:44.934 --> 05:51:47.836
we endured, that we had to endoo
you are.

05:51:48.939 --> 05:51:51.807
 -- the abuse we had to endure.
The jail is full of people that

05:51:52.420 --> 05:51:54.143
the system failed.
The courts even reward the

05:51:54.411 --> 05:51:56.411
people that commit crimes that

05:51:56.946 --> 05:51:58.213
have money, family and a stable
residence.

05:51:59.480 --> 05:52:01.480
I know we are all privy to know

05:52:01.551 --> 05:52:04.530
that one to 10 point system when
you get locked up when you go

05:52:04.530 --> 05:52:06.530
for bail.

05:52:06.223 --> 05:52:08.357
One of the things they ask you,
MR. Tony, have you lived in

05:52:08.658 --> 05:52:10.559
long island all your life?
Where have you lived?

05:52:11.796 --> 05:52:13.796
If I say I was in foster care

05:52:13.830 --> 05:52:15.830
all my life about 30 of them,

05:52:16.466 --> 05:52:18.466
group homes, foster homes and

05:52:18.868 --> 05:52:20.868
residential and lockups, that's

05:52:21.704 --> 05:52:23.704
a 0 on the scale.

05:52:25.909 --> 05:52:28.770
Being there was a consequence I
don't have family.

05:52:28.812 --> 05:52:30.746
i have relatives who have the
same blood line.

05:52:30.847 --> 05:52:32.847
Family is a unit.

05:52:32.982 --> 05:52:35.117
I lost that because they took me
constantly away from my family

05:52:35.385 --> 05:52:37.719
so when I see them, they're
strangers to me and it hurts

05:52:39.388 --> 05:52:41.224
every time I see one on facebook
or online communicating with

05:52:43.327 --> 05:52:45.328
each other.
With my name.

05:52:57.474 --> 05:53:00.900
I'm not even there excuse me.
The more damage done to a person

05:53:00.344 --> 05:53:02.344
especially those hurt by the

05:53:04.281 --> 05:53:06.382
system should not be met with
punishment claiming past history

05:53:06.850 --> 05:53:08.850
as aggravating factor but met

05:53:09.319 --> 05:53:11.420
with the fact that if the system
hurt them the actions that

05:53:14.257 --> 05:53:15.857
follow are actually mitigating
circumstances.

05:53:17.127 --> 05:53:19.127
That will require government and

05:53:20.330 --> 05:53:22.330
public understanding that people

05:53:22.899 --> 05:53:25.801
are sod a new and different
T.L.C. And new life, not to

05:53:27.971 --> 05:53:29.971
continuously be punished for the

05:53:30.607 --> 05:53:33.143
responding stimuli caused by the
individual who dropped the ball

05:53:33.143 --> 05:53:35.110
on them.
That would be the government.

05:53:35.479 --> 05:53:37.479
When I was three years old, I

05:53:38.315 --> 05:53:40.315
couldn't even pick up a ball

05:53:42.586 --> 05:53:44.586
probably let alean shoot one but

05:53:50.928 --> 05:53:52.928
the government dropped the ball

05:54:00.971 --> 05:54:03.720
my P.T.S.D. And, they did it and
dropped the ball, who is going

05:54:10.381 --> 05:54:12.583
to fix it every time I'm in
legal issues, I have the

05:54:12.583 --> 05:54:15.384
district attorney chasing me
down.
I try to go out there and fix

05:54:18.555 --> 05:54:20.555
the issue and I got up over 100

05:54:20.590 --> 05:54:22.590
videos of the police abusing

05:54:22.792 --> 05:54:24.792
these neighborhoods outside at

05:54:26.430 --> 05:54:28.430
the bus stops and train stations

05:54:28.599 --> 05:54:30.599
where I live are people that

05:54:33.137 --> 05:54:35.137
were formerly in frair, group

05:54:37.774 --> 05:54:40.109
homes residential juvenile
justice systems tryion, county

05:54:41.444 --> 05:54:43.444
jails or prison like at ca, sing

05:54:43.881 --> 05:54:45.881
sing where I spent 17 years up

05:54:47.451 --> 05:54:50.420
there, 20 years all together but
we are failing to realize that

05:54:50.888 --> 05:54:52.888
the actions and behaviors of

05:54:55.392 --> 05:54:57.392
people from where I come from

05:54:59.229 --> 05:55:01.229
the consequences are behavioral

05:55:04.101 --> 05:55:06.101
changes outside the norm.

05:55:06.437 --> 05:55:08.437
If you beat an animal he is

05:55:08.639 --> 05:55:10.639
going to bleed.

05:55:11.809 --> 05:55:14.544
What do people usually do to an
animal or a dog when they get

05:55:14.544 --> 05:55:17.114
hit by the car.
They give them a proper burial,

05:55:17.114 --> 05:55:19.116
the parents are crying.
But you have a black america out

05:55:19.116 --> 05:55:21.851
there.
You have a disenfranchised

05:55:22.753 --> 05:55:25.154
community out there like myself
and they're not -- they're

05:55:25.422 --> 05:55:27.422
getting beaten.

05:55:29.593 --> 05:55:31.593
We don't even get band-aids.

05:55:32.229 --> 05:55:34.229
I get the district attorney

05:55:34.966 --> 05:55:37.767
chasing me down.
What with evidence of video.

05:55:37.969 --> 05:55:39.969
This is how we are treated.

05:55:40.370 --> 05:55:42.370
I have six videos of evidence so

05:55:43.400 --> 05:55:45.800
I got not guilty not guilty of
rioting and assault on officers

05:55:45.843 --> 05:55:47.843
but how do you take somebody to

05:55:52.717 --> 05:55:55.252
trial with video he was rioting.
Without the video shows I'm

05:55:57.622 --> 05:55:59.622
surrounded by officers because I

05:55:59.690 --> 05:56:01.690
hose to get my video camera to

05:56:04.862 --> 05:56:06.862
stop at abuse real quick I'm

05:56:07.164 --> 05:56:08.698
going to say something about the
poverty line.

05:56:10.100 --> 05:56:12.100
I'm on social security, S.S.I.,

05:56:17.800 --> 05:56:19.843
and annually 9,000 500 -- 9500
approximately.

05:56:22.790 --> 05:56:23.313
Two years that comes out
$19,000.

05:56:26.783 --> 05:56:28.783
Now check this out the ofort

05:56:28.887 --> 05:56:31.388
line on long island is 24,000
for a family and for one person

05:56:33.157 --> 05:56:35.157
it's approximately 13,000 so how

05:56:35.960 --> 05:56:37.960
do you expect somebody that

05:56:39.463 --> 05:56:41.463
comes from the sis system so

05:56:42.433 --> 05:56:45.670
long without education, has to
educate themselves and then go

05:56:46.371 --> 05:56:48.905
out there and you hand them
pennies and tell them to
survive.

05:56:53.144 --> 05:56:55.144
You tell me to survive on what

05:56:55.212 --> 05:56:58.181
you already say is well below
the poverty line but I commit a

05:56:58.382 --> 05:57:00.851
crime trying to get something to
eat and I'm stressed out and I'm

05:57:00.851 --> 05:57:03.188
not just talking about me.
I'm talking about all my people

05:57:03.188 --> 05:57:05.188
out there suffering because I

05:57:05.490 --> 05:57:08.125
have to do this 24/7, go out
there and try to mend things

05:57:11.629 --> 05:57:14.597
together, which is I am
impossible.
I'm done.

05:57:14.632 --> 05:57:16.632
>> thank you, sir.

05:57:19.203 --> 05:57:21.203
I appreciate it.

05:57:21.873 --> 05:57:23.873
Thank you.

05:57:33.250 --> 05:57:36.190
>>
>> I'm a disabled veteran.

05:57:38.123 --> 05:57:40.123
I'm former felon and I'm an

05:57:40.759 --> 05:57:42.893
alienated father.
I understand a lot of what is

05:57:44.796 --> 05:57:46.930
going on here by using different
skills and learning things.

05:57:47.431 --> 05:57:50.000
I don't have time to go to law
school to become a lawyer

05:57:50.670 --> 05:57:52.803
because one lawyer is no the
going to make a significant

05:57:52.803 --> 05:57:55.739
change in relation to what is
going on.

05:57:58.309 --> 05:58:00.844
Like I left off with the blue
ribbon committee recently, I

05:58:01.790 --> 05:58:03.790
think my last words were some

05:58:03.514 --> 05:58:05.514
people need to go to jail.

05:58:05.583 --> 05:58:08.418
Sadly, that's what needs to
happen -- 
>> you are talking about the

05:58:08.786 --> 05:58:09.986
forensic evaluators so I'm
clear?

05:58:11.889 --> 05:58:14.525
>> yeah, I don't -- what I do is
I monitor legislation.

05:58:16.528 --> 05:58:18.528
I also monitor funding towards

05:58:18.930 --> 05:58:21.198
these initiatives and influences
in politics that people in the

05:58:22.660 --> 05:58:24.660
family court and C.P.S.

05:58:24.402 --> 05:58:26.402
Throughout are using.

05:58:26.871 --> 05:58:28.838
And I mean it's pretty much all
the people bringing money and

05:58:30.742 --> 05:58:32.742
have control in the system i

05:58:32.844 --> 05:58:35.379
recently went to missouri where
they had the national council of

05:58:39.417 --> 05:58:41.417
juvenile and family court judges

05:58:42.520 --> 05:58:44.921
coincidentally that year,
guardian ad litems and judges

05:58:46.324 --> 05:58:49.293
joked about selling kids and it
went viral over the internet and

05:58:50.262 --> 05:58:53.163
where they were hiding the money
overseas.
That's where they had their
conference.

05:58:54.990 --> 05:58:55.933
I went there and I brought
native americans with us.

05:58:56.434 --> 05:58:58.434
I went in quickly.

05:58:58.936 --> 05:59:01.538
I was not invited nor could I
afford everything but I gathered
material.

05:59:02.106 --> 05:59:04.700
At the end of the day it was a
big tech expo.

05:59:08.130 --> 05:59:10.130
That's pretty much all it was.

05:59:10.348 --> 05:59:13.150
And what I see going on here and
I have entered into politics

05:59:14.385 --> 05:59:17.354
with a very underfunded campaign
but the candidate for governor

05:59:17.655 --> 05:59:19.423
game gave me a platform to
expose the issues.

05:59:20.725 --> 05:59:23.590
When he went around the city he
sees everybody is affected by

05:59:24.129 --> 05:59:26.129
social services or court system

05:59:29.200 --> 05:59:31.200
that is more oppressive than not

05:59:34.572 --> 05:59:36.572
so what we see here with acs,

05:59:37.708 --> 05:59:39.708
they're the reason can I not see

05:59:42.881 --> 05:59:45.616
my children acs is using a new
name now and you should catch on

05:59:48.853 --> 05:59:50.888
to it, nyc children.
Check the department of state to

05:59:51.990 --> 05:59:53.857
see if it is an entity that is
registered because they're using

05:59:56.360 --> 05:59:58.763
that name with subpoena power I
have a conversation with an

05:59:59.231 --> 06:00:01.231
attorney yesterday.

06:00:01.533 --> 06:00:03.533
I have many complaints.

06:00:04.736 --> 06:00:06.736
These are all factually based, I

06:00:09.974 --> 06:00:11.974
started out with acs in OCTOBER

06:00:12.377 --> 06:00:14.377
of 2018.

06:00:15.547 --> 06:00:18.516
Things were heating up in my
marriage.
They were dissolving.

06:00:19.418 --> 06:00:21.952
I married into a family who
knows how to use the system

06:00:22.888 --> 06:00:25.123
after they get grandchildren and
get you out of the picture.

06:00:25.123 --> 06:00:27.524
They were professionals and
working on this for a while.

06:00:29.894 --> 06:00:32.729
When I first met ac cs after one
incident.
I pushed in a door and grabbed

06:00:34.320 --> 06:00:36.100
my wife by her shoulder.
Am I proud of it?

06:00:36.235 --> 06:00:38.970
Today I am because now I have
all this information and that's

06:00:39.738 --> 06:00:41.738
what it took so I'm not proud of

06:00:42.140 --> 06:00:44.441
it as a character but I never
neglected my children by doing

06:00:50.215 --> 06:00:52.717
so and that's why a lot of these
case laws are outdated.

06:00:52.985 --> 06:00:55.453
No two cases are alike.
When we want to say they're

06:00:56.755 --> 06:00:59.570
alike, I can tell you how
they're alike with constructive

06:00:59.570 --> 06:01:01.570
fraud going on.

06:01:01.493 --> 06:01:03.493
What I would really ultimately

06:01:03.695 --> 06:01:05.695
love to see is for initiatives

06:01:07.990 --> 06:01:09.435
to expedite reunifying families
wrongly separated.

06:01:09.435 --> 06:01:11.435
Office created within the

06:01:12.700 --> 06:01:14.138
government to do this.
That could be things that people

06:01:15.700 --> 06:01:17.975
are promoting in their campaigns
and in the legislature.

06:01:18.477 --> 06:01:20.477
There needs to be some sort of a

06:01:22.130 --> 06:01:24.140
special session so that wk show
you -- we can show you the

06:01:24.717 --> 06:01:27.190
perjury going on.
It's almost as if it's been

06:01:27.190 --> 06:01:29.487
repealed.
And as much as I like people

06:01:32.900 --> 06:01:33.958
having adequate and effective
representation, I also see the

06:01:34.359 --> 06:01:36.527
threat that if we have an
attorney coming to the door with

06:01:37.329 --> 06:01:39.997
C.P.S. Because it's provided for
now, and there is initiatives to

06:01:40.966 --> 06:01:42.966
provide everyone with attorneys

06:01:44.103 --> 06:01:46.103
from when before there is even a

06:01:46.372 --> 06:01:48.773
petition made we don't have
enough attorneys that have the

06:01:49.608 --> 06:01:51.476
fortitude to fight these people.
There are manufacturing of

06:01:52.444 --> 06:01:55.180
records in the so 34s.
trr so many anomalies.

06:01:55.180 --> 06:01:57.180
Photo shop going on.

06:01:57.315 --> 06:01:59.315
There are all sorts of things.

06:01:59.518 --> 06:02:01.518
Forged signatures, torrance

06:02:01.587 --> 06:02:04.155
attorneys in queens are forging
judges signatures.
>> yep.

06:02:05.900 --> 06:02:07.959
>> okay, you have people
impersonating people in jamaica

06:02:09.610 --> 06:02:11.610
queens.

06:02:12.831 --> 06:02:14.831
You have workers who had a

06:02:15.330 --> 06:02:17.134
petition that had david hansel
at the back of it.

06:02:19.205 --> 06:02:21.806
We knead more attention on this
worse than gun violence and when

06:02:25.110 --> 06:02:26.811
it culls to 1024s and in these
impoverished communities and we

06:02:27.179 --> 06:02:29.179
have people of minorities

06:02:30.148 --> 06:02:32.148
working in acs doing these

06:02:33.685 --> 06:02:35.685
1024s, these exigent removals.

06:02:35.721 --> 06:02:38.456
That is black on black violence.
That's horrible.
I have been sigh silent because

06:02:39.910 --> 06:02:41.910
I try to unite people behind me

06:02:41.930 --> 06:02:43.930
and I want to expedite the good

06:02:43.429 --> 06:02:45.429
outcomes in reunifying and

06:02:45.430 --> 06:02:47.398
restoring faith and truth and
justice in our system.

06:02:48.500 --> 06:02:50.601
Without integrity, we could talk
about anything if we keep

06:02:51.904 --> 06:02:53.939
failing to mention the lack of
integrity in the system we can

06:02:54.707 --> 06:02:57.675
talk about this forever and
people who are on the panels,

06:03:00.646 --> 06:03:02.646
they're never going to know for

06:03:02.815 --> 06:03:04.815
themselves we need to have

06:03:05.584 --> 06:03:07.584
projects here.

06:03:08.520 --> 06:03:10.757
State central registry, acs
workers are calling up

06:03:10.757 --> 06:03:13.358
anonymously.
We got that admitted the other
day.

06:03:14.493 --> 06:03:16.493
We need to bat an eye to the

06:03:17.363 --> 06:03:19.363
judiciary, too, and in all these

06:03:19.665 --> 06:03:21.499
states, daily my facebook feeds
are C.P.S. People getting

06:03:21.700 --> 06:03:24.569
arrested and judges getting
caught doing sufficient in

06:03:27.140 --> 06:03:29.508
different states.
GOD forbid it should happen
here.

06:03:29.742 --> 06:03:32.110
There are so many different
pieces of legislation on the
table right now.

06:03:32.745 --> 06:03:34.813
I agreey with a lot of
initiatives to make things

06:03:35.581 --> 06:03:38.249
better but I do believe that a
lot of these things are not

06:03:39.551 --> 06:03:41.551
focusing on the most important

06:03:41.587 --> 06:03:44.210
things last time I checked
perjury section 200 of the

06:03:47.794 --> 06:03:50.395
criminal procedure law it's a
crime to commit perjury but

06:03:51.297 --> 06:03:54.199
without the cases everything
perjury in them, they wouldn't

06:03:54.233 --> 06:03:56.235
exist at all.
They're supposed to be done in

06:03:56.235 --> 06:03:58.536
180 days.
Mine is going on three years and

06:04:00.706 --> 06:04:02.706
what they're doing they need to

06:04:03.576 --> 06:04:06.545
be audited number one by an
independent body, that's for

06:04:09.480 --> 06:04:10.849
sure I don't totally trust the
auditing agencies.

06:04:12.785 --> 06:04:14.520
They need to be done by outside
people.

06:04:17.256 --> 06:04:19.256
>> not to stop you acs is

06:04:20.226 --> 06:04:22.661
audited by the city
comptroller's office an

06:04:23.896 --> 06:04:26.698
independently elected guy.
It's people are getting familiar

06:04:28.901 --> 06:04:30.901
with who acs is giving money to

06:04:31.470 --> 06:04:32.737
they're making really bad
decisions.

06:04:34.873 --> 06:04:37.308
I recall a guy who has been
writing advocacy papers even

06:04:37.877 --> 06:04:40.646
though he says he is not.
He has been writing papers since

06:04:42.815 --> 06:04:44.815
the late 70s, they gave him

06:04:45.718 --> 06:04:48.153
$418,000 to write about lgbtq
foster youth that were

06:04:49.121 --> 06:04:51.121
apparently neglected or abused

06:04:51.223 --> 06:04:53.223
by their parents when we don't

06:04:54.661 --> 06:04:56.995
even see the preponderance of
the evidence standard met or

06:04:57.330 --> 06:04:59.499
satisfied because we have
judicial immunity.

06:04:59.499 --> 06:05:01.499
Absolute immunity and it's not

06:05:01.701 --> 06:05:04.469
just that for the sake of
lawsuits.
it's created as climate where

06:05:04.470 --> 06:05:07.339
everyone knows they're not going
to be held accountable.

06:05:08.107 --> 06:05:10.408
And that's the issue.
So the perjury in the courts is

06:05:10.743 --> 06:05:12.743
the biggest thing.

06:05:12.946 --> 06:05:15.781
As much as I'm a fan of, you
know, shared parenting in

06:05:15.889 --> 06:05:18.217
states, there is initiatives
across the states for that, too

06:05:18.451 --> 06:05:20.451
but I understand if that was to

06:05:20.486 --> 06:05:22.486
be passed tomorrow, but we don't

06:05:23.389 --> 06:05:26.240
bat an eye to the perjury and
the subowner nation of perjury

06:05:28.394 --> 06:05:30.296
and the judges that, it's like
they're absent.

06:05:33.366 --> 06:05:35.334
They don't -- they can't see
clearly perjury because then

06:05:35.868 --> 06:05:37.868
they lose the case and the worst

06:05:38.538 --> 06:05:40.538
judges that we see like in

06:05:40.540 --> 06:05:42.540
queens, they are part of acs,

06:05:44.410 --> 06:05:46.410
they're former acs.

06:05:47.247 --> 06:05:49.548
Like they had someone from the
center of family representation.

06:05:54.587 --> 06:05:56.255
That's who I first had as my
attorney.

06:05:57.223 --> 06:05:59.223
When was frustrated about the

06:05:59.692 --> 06:06:01.692
lies said about me, my former

06:06:02.940 --> 06:06:04.796
federal case way about of but ac
cs and my wife's attorney were

06:06:05.232 --> 06:06:08.000
pandering to to the court that
this was a recent event that

06:06:09.536 --> 06:06:10.936
happened while my child was
alive.

06:06:11.905 --> 06:06:13.905
It happened seven or eight years

06:06:14.974 --> 06:06:16.974
ago when I was interviewed by

06:06:17.176 --> 06:06:19.945
acs, they told me that I didn't
go to the high school that I

06:06:20.880 --> 06:06:23.516
went to and I married one of my
ts teachers.

06:06:23.683 --> 06:06:25.852
This was years later.
I'm not alleging anything

06:06:25.852 --> 06:06:28.555
happened then.
This was years later.
>> thank you for claireing that

06:06:28.555 --> 06:06:30.956
for the record.
>> well sadly when you talk to

06:06:31.958 --> 06:06:34.893
people who are in the spotlight
it has been told to me before,

06:06:34.927 --> 06:06:36.927
hey, you have to lie.

06:06:38.831 --> 06:06:41.000
i don't want to be sued for
libel and slander but what is

06:06:41.468 --> 06:06:43.602
going on is libel and slander in
the courts and we know there are

06:06:44.104 --> 06:06:45.437
two sets of books for
everything.

06:06:46.740 --> 06:06:49.508
That's what is happening here
and with the incentive to

06:06:51.778 --> 06:06:53.145
destroy families and perjury
allowed.

06:06:56.349 --> 06:06:59.285
It's a recipe for disaster the
worse problem is that there is

06:07:00.854 --> 06:07:02.755
no accountability in the
judiciary.

06:07:06.226 --> 06:07:08.600
I believe there are 1 or so
calls, most by teachers.

06:07:08.361 --> 06:07:10.361
Why were they shut down?

06:07:12.980 --> 06:07:14.866
And all the kids that are dying
all these death are getting
covered up.

06:07:15.702 --> 06:07:17.702
Now we have a community of

06:07:18.380 --> 06:07:20.107
people talking about it
happening and we can't contest

06:07:20.107 --> 06:07:22.575
they're not happening.
I don't support these things, of

06:07:23.476 --> 06:07:25.944
course, but I don't actually
believe that people planned on

06:07:26.646 --> 06:07:28.947
killing their children at any
point.
It's the weaponization and

06:07:30.516 --> 06:07:32.516
trauma that is causing the court

06:07:33.153 --> 06:07:35.153
that is causing super narcissism

06:07:36.790 --> 06:07:38.824
in some of these people causing
severe trauma to where they

06:07:39.292 --> 06:07:40.659
think they can do horrible
things.

06:07:41.461 --> 06:07:43.461
I've had people joke that I'm

06:07:43.997 --> 06:07:46.965
not going to know my child's
name until I see it on a order

06:07:50.571 --> 06:07:53.406
of protection opposing counsel.
Opposing counsel was my my

06:07:53.640 --> 06:07:56.800
mother-in-law was the lunch lady
at the school for 20 something

06:07:57.577 --> 06:07:59.979
years but I didn't go to the
high school and that's where I

06:08:00.380 --> 06:08:03.215
saw nine lynch my first week of
high school and my first shop

06:08:05.185 --> 06:08:06.752
teacher by the name, I'll call
him ivan.

06:08:08.455 --> 06:08:10.490
He and I both had a mutual
friend port authority cop who

06:08:11.225 --> 06:08:13.225
died in 9/11.

06:08:13.694 --> 06:08:15.795
He had the same attorney that my
ex-wife had against him and he

06:08:15.929 --> 06:08:17.596
told me about some of the stuff
she does.

06:08:18.431 --> 06:08:20.966
So what we have is we have
certain people doing certain

06:08:21.301 --> 06:08:23.602
things it.
Case workers are bringing

06:08:23.803 --> 06:08:25.803
petitions that are rubber

06:08:28.800 --> 06:08:30.443
stamped with david hansel's name
already.
These are boiler plate things.

06:08:31.110 --> 06:08:33.110
On the bottom of them, it is

06:08:33.113 --> 06:08:35.281
supposed to say the chief clerk
of the court but actually what

06:08:37.117 --> 06:08:39.885
is going on they're getting
notaries.
They removed the clerk of the

06:08:41.956 --> 06:08:44.490
court and that's against the
law.
But all these petitions are

06:08:44.625 --> 06:08:46.625
supposed to be stamped and

06:08:46.693 --> 06:08:48.561
signed by the clerk even if
they're rejected.

06:08:51.331 --> 06:08:53.833
My case worker, maria johnson,
they got rid of her.

06:08:55.335 --> 06:08:57.335
Now the judge has gone way

06:08:57.537 --> 06:09:00.730
beyond above and beyond and has
excused the case worker from the

06:09:00.608 --> 06:09:03.576
case who brought the initial
petition and the derivative

06:09:04.111 --> 06:09:06.646
neglect petition which is ch was
not even the right proper one,

06:09:08.849 --> 06:09:11.684
she did a 1046, I believe no,
no, supposed to be a 1046 but

06:09:12.486 --> 06:09:14.486
this woman lied about how she

06:09:15.155 --> 06:09:17.155
got the petition done, the thing

06:09:18.325 --> 06:09:20.930
is police officered, totally
embellished lied about my

06:09:20.794 --> 06:09:22.996
relationship with my therapist,
lied about my military history

06:09:23.430 --> 06:09:25.430
that I briefly discussed with

06:09:25.432 --> 06:09:27.233
them when I first saw them they
guaranteed me as I walked

06:09:27.868 --> 06:09:30.369
through the door that I would
not see the birth of moo I

06:09:33.426 --> 06:09:34.873
second son.
They guaranteed it.
they told me I didn't go to the
high school I went to.

06:09:36.110 --> 06:09:38.912
And I had two dry erase boards
with strengths and weaknesses

06:09:41.350 --> 06:09:42.548
and there were all weaknesses
listed with things that never

06:09:43.417 --> 06:09:45.184
happened but showed they had
communication with the people

06:09:48.155 --> 06:09:50.155
who were against me and

06:09:50.524 --> 06:09:52.524
continuously I try to put on a

06:09:53.928 --> 06:09:56.829
case the bested I can, you know,
self represented at this point

06:09:59.733 --> 06:10:01.733
but I get constantly subjected

06:10:02.603 --> 06:10:04.738
to attacks nonsensical.
I tried to recuse a judge in my

06:10:04.738 --> 06:10:06.738
case.

06:10:07.808 --> 06:10:09.808
She will not recuse herself but

06:10:10.811 --> 06:10:12.811
she has lost her impartiality if

06:10:14.648 --> 06:10:16.884
she can deny a motion that she
believes I MAY citizen arrest

06:10:16.884 --> 06:10:19.552
her.
We went over this two years ago

06:10:19.987 --> 06:10:22.555
but now that I have lawyers
helping me out.

06:10:24.570 --> 06:10:26.359
Lawyer are sleeping on my sofa
now.
Lawyers are seeing a lot of

06:10:26.594 --> 06:10:29.162
opportunity here, especially in
the reunification.
That's the thing I into ed to

06:10:31.198 --> 06:10:33.233
stress the most and the thing is
we can talk about foster care

06:10:33.300 --> 06:10:36.350
which is the worst part of.
This I've met parents that have

06:10:36.570 --> 06:10:38.570
the children removed after they

06:10:39.440 --> 06:10:41.440
get the other parent out of the

06:10:41.508 --> 06:10:44.477
picture with lies and stuff
through C.P.S., C.P.S. Coerces

06:10:45.546 --> 06:10:47.414
them to lie and claim more
domestic violence and once they

06:10:50.351 --> 06:10:52.351
have the mother isolated, they

06:10:53.687 --> 06:10:56.255
swoop in take the child and put
them out there.
It is horrible.

06:10:58.225 --> 06:11:00.192
We have ac cs workers who are
foster care people working in

06:11:00.627 --> 06:11:03.196
new jersey across the bridge.
They're little working at the

06:11:03.531 --> 06:11:05.866
family of services where
children are getting raped and

06:11:07.969 --> 06:11:09.969
these are the same people whose

06:11:10.271 --> 06:11:12.710
names are on my cases but they
can't come testify.

06:11:13.941 --> 06:11:15.908
We need to face our accusers:
it's so sad when I talk about

06:11:16.243 --> 06:11:17.810
the influence, I'll just be one
more moment.

06:11:20.381 --> 06:11:22.381
When I spoke about the influence

06:11:23.384 --> 06:11:25.384
here, I'm not politically

06:11:26.187 --> 06:11:28.254
driven, I see neither party
truly cares or understands what

06:11:30.758 --> 06:11:32.758
is going on people need to be

06:11:33.270 --> 06:11:35.270
held abilitiable we have a bill

06:11:35.129 --> 06:11:37.129
right now where he wants to

06:11:37.966 --> 06:11:39.966
remove -- repeal citizens arrest.

06:11:41.502 --> 06:11:44.337
Now sadly this is in the same
area where I happen to live in

06:11:45.406 --> 06:11:47.842
queens and the thing was because
I brought intelligent

06:11:47.842 --> 06:11:49.842
conversation to it the fbi is

06:11:51.450 --> 06:11:53.450
not going to help us reverend al

06:11:53.147 --> 06:11:55.147
sharpton made inquiry years ago

06:11:57.218 --> 06:11:59.119
there should be a special
prosecutor to look into what

06:11:59.420 --> 06:12:01.540
they're doing.
Nothing came of that.

06:12:01.656 --> 06:12:03.656
Crimes are being committed.

06:12:04.358 --> 06:12:06.760
And sadly, what I'll leave off
with, when we see the child

06:12:08.696 --> 06:12:10.696
protective services being used,

06:12:11.298 --> 06:12:13.934
most of the time it's oversell
usually and maliciously and

06:12:14.402 --> 06:12:16.402
where they're not needed and

06:12:16.771 --> 06:12:18.771
then when they are needed in the

06:12:20.374 --> 06:12:23.900
most wretched situations as
senator nancy who got murdered

06:12:24.645 --> 06:12:26.645
when she spoke about this in

06:12:27.514 --> 06:12:29.514
georgia they're not needed.

06:12:31.820 --> 06:12:34.522
So it's mind boggling but this
is something that need to be

06:12:34.522 --> 06:12:36.857
comprehensively put together and
need to address all of it

06:12:37.291 --> 06:12:38.492
because this is government
waste.

06:12:39.894 --> 06:12:42.662
This is, you know, this is
misuse of government funds.

06:12:43.631 --> 06:12:45.631
Our tax dollars are going this

06:12:46.133 --> 06:12:48.235
and it's just an abomination so
I'm always going to continue to

06:12:49.104 --> 06:12:51.104
do what have I to do.

06:12:51.172 --> 06:12:53.574
and one of the best things that
I encourage people to do is to

06:12:54.375 --> 06:12:56.375
practice their first amendment

06:12:56.444 --> 06:12:58.444
freedom of speech.

06:12:59.380 --> 06:13:01.514
And because that seems to be the
biggest threat out there to what

06:13:02.650 --> 06:13:05.286
is going on and when I say that,
I don't condone threats or

06:13:05.420 --> 06:13:07.420
violence at all.

06:13:08.990 --> 06:13:10.990
When I was over overseas in

06:13:12.927 --> 06:13:15.428
racetrack we were targeted clead
cells targeting children.

06:13:15.630 --> 06:13:17.630
And while people MAY say I'm

06:13:18.320 --> 06:13:19.432
going to resort to violence, I
haven't.

06:13:20.901 --> 06:13:22.901
I have not even acs got me

06:13:23.305 --> 06:13:25.305
arrested they said I threw a

06:13:25.340 --> 06:13:27.340
brick through the windshield.

06:13:27.575 --> 06:13:29.943
I beat the case on my own with a
30-30 motion to dismiss.

06:13:30.311 --> 06:13:32.479
You would think they would be
interested in what was going on

06:13:32.713 --> 06:13:35.148
and during the course of my
separation from my children,

06:13:35.449 --> 06:13:38.318
they're being driven in car
seats that are sideways not even

06:13:39.955 --> 06:13:42.289
properly secured in the car.
And this is what I'm taunted

06:13:42.657 --> 06:13:44.692
with as I'm kept away from my
children as if I'm a threat

06:13:46.940 --> 06:13:49.620
because I pushed a door in and I
had an episode based on much

06:13:49.330 --> 06:13:51.330
more than what they want to

06:13:53.401 --> 06:13:56.269
bring to the court, all I ask is
that you take us seriously.

06:13:57.873 --> 06:13:59.873
Please I support all the bills

06:14:00.475 --> 06:14:03.243
that are being done here
especially with marijuana being

06:14:05.380 --> 06:14:06.647
an issue that now it is
legalized.

06:14:08.249 --> 06:14:10.249
I faced issues with acs as well.

06:14:10.885 --> 06:14:13.186
I had a medical marijuana card.
I told them that.

06:14:14.790 --> 06:14:16.957
I didn't have the expiration -- I
didn't have the card with me.

06:14:17.425 --> 06:14:20.261
I told them I would provide that
for them at the child safety

06:14:21.730 --> 06:14:24.698
conference when I see them again
sadly they just said that I told

06:14:26.234 --> 06:14:28.234
them that I use elicit

06:14:29.303 --> 06:14:31.303
substances in front of my child.

06:14:32.174 --> 06:14:34.174
>> if you have a card hive.

06:14:36.511 --> 06:14:39.446
>> that's what they said I told
them they also said I see my

06:14:40.415 --> 06:14:42.116
therapist out of his thousands.
That's not true.

06:14:43.184 --> 06:14:45.152
I met my therapist derivative of
my federal case where the judge

06:14:46.154 --> 06:14:48.154
said to protect yourself, you

06:14:48.322 --> 06:14:50.892
should see someone during
supervised release.
Figure out your own schedule so

06:14:51.793 --> 06:14:54.395
this can't happen to you again
but sadly what I saw in the past

06:14:55.864 --> 06:14:58.980
happen to me with these
embellishments and false

06:14:58.199 --> 06:15:00.835
narratives, that's what child
protection looks like here in

06:15:00.835 --> 06:15:02.835
new york and across.

06:15:03.204 --> 06:15:05.204
But we really need an all hands

06:15:06.775 --> 06:15:09.477
on deck approach.
I commend you for being here but

06:15:12.180 --> 06:15:14.180
is some something that this

06:15:14.549 --> 06:15:17.840
issue is the most important
thing if we start addressing

06:15:18.520 --> 06:15:20.621
this as the primary issue and
inject it into the news cycle

06:15:22.423 --> 06:15:24.423
and politics and everything we

06:15:24.793 --> 06:15:26.793
will fix it easily and with that

06:15:27.129 --> 06:15:29.363
I'll leave you off with a big
thank you and hope there I we

06:15:30.232 --> 06:15:32.633
don't have to see each other
again but I probably have seen

06:15:33.234 --> 06:15:35.736
people in this room more than
I've seen my own kids in three

06:15:36.171 --> 06:15:38.171
years because I haven't even met

06:15:38.273 --> 06:15:40.174
my second born son yet.
So thank you.

06:15:42.444 --> 06:15:44.812
>> thank you for testifying.
Appreciate it.

06:15:48.383 --> 06:15:50.684
>> hi, I'mmary tucker.
I just want to say a little

06:15:52.888 --> 06:15:54.888
prayer to all the parents and

06:15:56.191 --> 06:15:59.126
children who sur injustice in
the -- suffer injustice in the
mandz of our government.

06:16:01.964 --> 06:16:04.532
The most who are -- most horrific
of being taken from your parents

06:16:05.267 --> 06:16:07.568
at a very young age and not
seeing your children again.

06:16:08.970 --> 06:16:11.739
they're alive, but to the
parented, they don't exist

06:16:14.809 --> 06:16:16.343
anymore and that is just
unacceptable.

06:16:18.981 --> 06:16:20.981
It's been known for the last 45

06:16:22.284 --> 06:16:25.152
years as we know talking to
devon, tony, he is 45 years old.

06:16:27.856 --> 06:16:29.856
This has been going on forever

06:16:30.191 --> 06:16:31.358
and nothing has been done about
it.

06:16:33.929 --> 06:16:35.929
We have had commissions,

06:16:35.931 --> 06:16:38.333
testimony, reports, everything
and anything out there that

06:16:39.234 --> 06:16:41.234
nothing is being done.

06:16:41.303 --> 06:16:43.304
I have been speaking about it
since 2002.

06:16:44.706 --> 06:16:46.706
I think I also spoke in front of

06:16:53.682 --> 06:16:55.850
you back in DECEMBER of 2013.
DECEMBER 5, 2013.
>> buffalo?

06:16:56.352 --> 06:16:59.320
>> no, here.
I had spoken.
As a matter of fact, you said

06:17:00.188 --> 06:17:02.790
that my case was a criminal case
and you were going to bring to

06:17:03.925 --> 06:17:05.925
the proper authorities.

06:17:06.828 --> 06:17:08.828
But I would like to just say to

06:17:11.300 --> 06:17:13.801
all the parents and judges 612,
the lord is with you plighty

06:17:14.169 --> 06:17:16.169
warrior because all these

06:17:17.773 --> 06:17:19.875
parents are warriors.
They're warriors fighting for

06:17:19.875 --> 06:17:22.770
their children.
They're the blue ribbon

06:17:22.770 --> 06:17:24.145
protectors.
See the blue ribbon?

06:17:26.449 --> 06:17:27.749
You have the blue ribbon
commission.

06:17:29.850 --> 06:17:30.819
That's been around forever.
Governor cuomo made how many

06:17:31.820 --> 06:17:33.820
blue ribbon commissions?

06:17:34.256 --> 06:17:36.256
Nothing has ever come of them

06:17:36.525 --> 06:17:38.525
now you have the forensic

06:17:38.727 --> 06:17:40.628
evaluator blue ribbon
commission; which is a great

06:17:42.497 --> 06:17:45.330
thing that has to be recognized
but again not publicized.

06:17:46.769 --> 06:17:48.103
Nobody knows about these
hearings.

06:17:50.720 --> 06:17:52.607
I happen to hear, I registered,
and they never even sent me the

06:17:53.800 --> 06:17:55.800
link to be part of it when they

06:17:55.711 --> 06:17:57.711
called my name, I wasn't there

06:17:59.481 --> 06:18:01.651
so it looked like.
>> we can make sure you get

06:18:01.651 --> 06:18:03.651
there.

06:18:04.453 --> 06:18:06.688
>> they don't have anymore
hearings so I would appreciate

06:18:07.356 --> 06:18:09.356
if you continue on having these

06:18:09.892 --> 06:18:12.660
hearings like this one here.
This hearing should be

06:18:14.730 --> 06:18:16.730
publicized in every courthouse

06:18:17.866 --> 06:18:19.866
at every door and every

06:18:33.882 --> 06:18:35.882
courtroom.

06:18:36.286 --> 06:18:38.420
Sch woor going to do every
hearings throughout the state.

06:18:38.688 --> 06:18:40.355
We figured to come to
new york city first.

06:18:41.991 --> 06:18:43.991
>> there was one back 2019 and

06:18:45.494 --> 06:18:47.494
that was by here by invitation

06:18:48.998 --> 06:18:50.998
only, and we did cause a little

06:18:51.567 --> 06:18:53.935
ruckus and -- 
>> the prior chair, right?

06:18:54.704 --> 06:18:56.438
>> it was with -- 
>> prior chair.

06:18:58.740 --> 06:19:01.900
>> MISS Walker.
And then they had one in albany,

06:19:01.377 --> 06:19:03.377
which, again, they didn't tell

06:19:04.947 --> 06:19:06.481
us but I was able to get there,
thank GOD.

06:19:07.160 --> 06:19:09.884
>> so we are going to do more of
these but I'm hypersensitive to

06:19:10.319 --> 06:19:12.319
the appearance and reality that

06:19:18.294 --> 06:19:20.495
we are not letting people talk
or give them enough time to talk

06:19:21.330 --> 06:19:23.965
and invitation only is not
right.
It's just wrong.

06:19:27.469 --> 06:19:30.339
There will be more of these and
this is technical but this room

06:19:33.576 --> 06:19:36.440
is not set up for zoom, which is
crazy.

06:19:36.612 --> 06:19:38.612
We are going to do more of these

06:19:38.614 --> 06:19:40.548
and do them by zoom so other
people can get there.

06:19:41.500 --> 06:19:43.500
I hear the point.

06:19:45.521 --> 06:19:47.322
>> I know senator biaggi had one
on sexual harassment.

06:19:48.491 --> 06:19:50.826
It was a 12 hour hearing and
very effective and a lot of

06:19:51.427 --> 06:19:53.729
testimony and things changed.
Great bills were written, and

06:19:54.797 --> 06:19:57.599
I'm very grateful for that.
In this case, how many bills are

06:19:58.167 --> 06:19:59.901
out there?
There are so many bills out

06:20:00.536 --> 06:20:02.536
there, they have been out there,

06:20:02.538 --> 06:20:05.507
our children were already
protected under the laws.

06:20:06.543 --> 06:20:08.543
But nobody abides by the laws.

06:20:09.345 --> 06:20:11.947
Which is very, very sad.
And all these bills that are

06:20:12.148 --> 06:20:14.148
written, there are a lot of good

06:20:14.517 --> 06:20:16.785
points but the most important
point that is not written in any

06:20:18.454 --> 06:20:20.454
of them is the perjury.

06:20:21.191 --> 06:20:23.859
If you prosecute the liar, you
will eliminate children losing

06:20:24.600 --> 06:20:26.361
their parents and parents losing
their children.

06:20:28.564 --> 06:20:30.532
You will save lives by just
prosecuting one liar.

06:20:31.667 --> 06:20:33.667
That would stop anybody from

06:20:34.270 --> 06:20:36.538
putting in a forced complaint if
they know they will be

06:20:40.477 --> 06:20:42.678
prosecuted if they -- if they
lie.
Under oath.

06:20:44.800 --> 06:20:46.882
If they file a false instrument,
a false police report.

06:20:47.250 --> 06:20:49.250
If they stand before you go

06:20:49.786 --> 06:20:51.954
before the judge, I do you swear
or affirm the testimony you are
about to give will be the truth,

06:20:51.954 --> 06:20:53.655
the whole truth and nothing but
the truth, so help you GOD, once

06:20:55.191 --> 06:20:57.191
you lie, prosecution.

06:21:07.360 --> 06:21:09.271
You will save how many lives.
There is a time in every

06:21:09.639 --> 06:21:12.240
generation when GOD calls
servants to rise above the wrong

06:21:12.241 --> 06:21:14.242
to make it right.
That's why we are here today.

06:21:14.344 --> 06:21:16.344
We want to make it right.

06:21:20.784 --> 06:21:22.784
We want to save children.

06:21:22.852 --> 06:21:25.387
The most important grave issue
is protection of our children

06:21:27.924 --> 06:21:29.924
who are not safe in new york

06:21:30.760 --> 06:21:32.995
they're just not safe I have
testified about the crimes

06:21:36.320 --> 06:21:38.100
against our children since 2010.
2002 and saved thousands with

06:21:39.736 --> 06:21:41.970
the grace of GOD.
Until the corrupt criminal

06:21:42.739 --> 06:21:45.674
actors did everything to silence
me.
They killed my animals, stole

06:21:47.877 --> 06:21:50.413
our land and our personal
belongings just so I could
survive.

06:21:51.581 --> 06:21:54.483
Took my freedom and allowed
every criminal thug to terrorize

06:21:55.619 --> 06:21:57.619
our farm, slated to save future

06:21:57.821 --> 06:21:59.821
generations of children that we

06:22:01.570 --> 06:22:03.570
know today are in grave danger.

06:22:03.192 --> 06:22:05.192
The evil doers succeeded for now

06:22:06.263 --> 06:22:07.863
to stop me from saving many
more.

06:22:08.832 --> 06:22:11.567
Even though GOD had mercy on me
and gave me enough strength to

06:22:13.136 --> 06:22:15.136
save my children at a price tag

06:22:15.805 --> 06:22:18.640
of over $100 million and torture
of over 60 animals.

06:22:19.409 --> 06:22:21.409
Under GOD's hand, I do the best

06:22:22.578 --> 06:22:24.480
I can to help save one child at
a time.

06:22:26.717 --> 06:22:29.518
So see, if I didn't have a value
of 100 millions over my head,

06:22:31.721 --> 06:22:33.389
which they got, but I saved my
three sons.

06:22:34.224 --> 06:22:37.920
When they came to take all my
wealth, they said, if you do not

06:22:38.628 --> 06:22:40.628
leave this farm, and sign over

06:22:40.697 --> 06:22:43.299
all the animals, C.P.S. At the
gate will take your three
children.

06:22:43.333 --> 06:22:45.434
Which one do you want.
I stood up.

06:22:46.303 --> 06:22:49.380
I signed and walked away from
everything to save my children.

06:22:50.574 --> 06:22:53.509
But how blessed was I, sir?
How blessed was I that I had

06:22:54.310 --> 06:22:56.411
enough value around me to give
it up to save my children.

06:22:56.913 --> 06:22:58.413
There is a value on our
children?

06:22:59.216 --> 06:23:01.840
There no, sir dollar sign on a
child.

06:23:03.153 --> 06:23:05.888
And how many parents losely
whole life to save their
children?

06:23:05.923 --> 06:23:07.923
They have nothing left.

06:23:08.158 --> 06:23:10.592
They're homeless, in despair.
They're traumatize.

06:23:12.829 --> 06:23:14.829
They can't function: I call it

06:23:15.231 --> 06:23:17.567
invisible disability because we
can't see their sling on their

06:23:22.940 --> 06:23:25.674
arm or their crutch.
Since the establishment who

06:23:25.675 --> 06:23:27.675
collected millions of dollars to

06:23:28.845 --> 06:23:31.580
protect the children of new york
failed with clear evidence that

06:23:33.817 --> 06:23:35.919
they do not care gaining
financially our corrupt, lying

06:23:37.421 --> 06:23:39.421
or have a mental illness or some

06:23:39.523 --> 06:23:41.224
kind of substance addiction.
It's the opposite.

06:23:42.192 --> 06:23:45.270
The people that are in control
of stealing children, they're

06:23:52.236 --> 06:23:55.171
the ones with the mental illness
how many lawyers are alcoholics?

06:23:59.420 --> 06:24:01.420
That the bar association had to

06:24:02.112 --> 06:24:04.112
create a wellness program.

06:24:06.160 --> 06:24:07.916
To combat this whole issue of
alcohol.

06:24:08.953 --> 06:24:11.855
The solution would be to
reinvent the government employed

06:24:12.623 --> 06:24:14.623
by the people and remove all

06:24:15.792 --> 06:24:17.994
from office like the governor
who is part of destroying

06:24:20.130 --> 06:24:22.130
families for decades since it

06:24:22.599 --> 06:24:24.599
would be almost impossible to to

06:24:24.868 --> 06:24:27.103
force removal of all who stayed
silent who watched millions of

06:24:27.371 --> 06:24:29.371
families and children suffer,

06:24:30.474 --> 06:24:32.474
the least we can do is everyone

06:24:32.776 --> 06:24:34.776
in public service needs to be

06:24:35.779 --> 06:24:37.779
drug, alcohol and mental testing

06:24:38.515 --> 06:24:41.250
every six months.
You want to test the parents to

06:24:43.860 --> 06:24:44.354
see if they have drugs in their
system.

06:24:45.189 --> 06:24:47.957
The person stealing the child
needs a drug test and mental

06:24:48.259 --> 06:24:50.259
evaluation if they're capable of

06:24:50.861 --> 06:24:53.730
taking a child that would be the
right thing to do, right?

06:24:54.565 --> 06:24:56.832
Anyone who files a false
instrument or police report

06:24:58.935 --> 06:25:01.337
needs to be prosecuted.
anyone who destroys someone's

06:25:02.673 --> 06:25:04.673
life on a lie needs to go to

06:25:05.643 --> 06:25:07.643
jail for a long time.

06:25:07.645 --> 06:25:09.645
This will never happen if we do

06:25:09.813 --> 06:25:11.813
not prosecute a liar.

06:25:12.416 --> 06:25:14.650
Lives are destroyed because law
enforcement has assisted these

06:25:15.819 --> 06:25:17.520
crimes against families for
decades.

06:25:19.991 --> 06:25:21.991
All this evil behavior has

06:25:22.260 --> 06:25:24.260
destroyed society.

06:25:24.695 --> 06:25:26.695
It's destroyed from within by a

06:25:26.997 --> 06:25:29.832
lie and filing -- and filling our
country with so many drugs

06:25:31.602 --> 06:25:33.602
people have become dysfunctional

06:25:34.137 --> 06:25:35.504
and mental illness is a
pandemic.

06:25:36.707 --> 06:25:38.707
For decades when a child is high

06:25:39.644 --> 06:25:41.644
energy or anxious, the

06:25:42.413 --> 06:25:44.280
establishment band-aid was a
drug.

06:25:51.210 --> 06:25:53.210
Like prozac, ritalin, adderall

06:25:53.791 --> 06:25:55.492
which causes children to be drug
addicts.

06:25:56.827 --> 06:25:58.827
Society is falling apart by a

06:26:01.532 --> 06:26:03.532
lie and a pill.

06:26:03.901 --> 06:26:05.901
And every part written, nowhere

06:26:06.136 --> 06:26:08.136
does it address this nightmare.

06:26:08.906 --> 06:26:11.540
Many reports and statistics of
removing children from parents
is drug use.

06:26:12.760 --> 06:26:14.760
Since the corrupt public actors

06:26:14.879 --> 06:26:16.879
are to blame for this horrific

06:26:17.114 --> 06:26:20.830
epidemic, children should not be
punished.
There should be housing
facilities where the children

06:26:20.818 --> 06:26:23.353
stay with their parents while
under supervised treatment of

06:26:23.787 --> 06:26:26.456
their addiction.
Separating children from their

06:26:28.927 --> 06:26:30.894
parents causes more harm and
it's irreparable.

06:26:32.997 --> 06:26:34.997
It cannot be fixed.

06:26:35.199 --> 06:26:37.867
You cannot fix time.
The influx of immigration coming

06:26:38.702 --> 06:26:41.571
into our country is proof of
this horror show.

06:26:41.939 --> 06:26:44.907
The world talked about how
horrible it was to separate

06:26:45.543 --> 06:26:46.877
immigrant children from their
parents.

06:26:48.790 --> 06:26:50.790
But no one talks about children

06:26:51.150 --> 06:26:53.116
being kidnapped by corrupt
judiciary.

06:26:53.684 --> 06:26:55.684
Lawyers C.P.S. Workers, law

06:26:57.210 --> 06:26:59.210
enforcement and prosecutors like

06:27:00.658 --> 06:27:02.658
convicted former da spoda, all

06:27:03.962 --> 06:27:05.962
done under the color of law in

06:27:07.980 --> 06:27:09.566
suffolk county we had a da
convicted of covering up crimes

06:27:10.268 --> 06:27:13.136
against families and children.
And he is still not in jail.

06:27:14.972 --> 06:27:17.874
He got convicted two years ago.
But when somebody has a false

06:27:18.642 --> 06:27:21.545
claim against a parent, they
immediately take the child.

06:27:22.414 --> 06:27:24.414
There is no due process.

06:27:24.415 --> 06:27:26.415
There is no protection.

06:27:27.852 --> 06:27:30.387
We should not have any one
corrupt judge taking a child
away.

06:27:33.557 --> 06:27:35.860
It should be a jury of our
peers.
That's it.

06:27:35.860 --> 06:27:37.860
Always.

06:27:38.229 --> 06:27:40.731
12 to 13 people should have the
say if a child should be taken

06:27:41.320 --> 06:27:43.834
from their parent.
Not one judge who is getting
paid off.

06:27:46.404 --> 06:27:48.404
And we all know about the

06:27:52.343 --> 06:27:54.343
briberies.

06:27:54.845 --> 06:27:56.845
The 10 commandments from GOD and

06:27:57.148 --> 06:27:59.983
and our constitution says it
all.
Sadly the corrupt is slowly

06:28:00.685 --> 06:28:03.387
removing GOD and our human
rights from every person who is

06:28:06.257 --> 06:28:08.257
dragged into the unstoppable

06:28:11.662 --> 06:28:13.596
money machine.
New york state unified court

06:28:15.800 --> 06:28:18.435
system, the judge janet defory
calls the court family.

06:28:19.871 --> 06:28:21.871
My GOD, the court family?

06:28:21.940 --> 06:28:23.940
Where is the separation?

06:28:25.143 --> 06:28:27.143
How can we ever get due process

06:28:29.713 --> 06:28:31.916
when our chief judge calls the
administration of new york's

06:28:33.485 --> 06:28:36.120
court system a court family.
there is no protection.

06:28:37.922 --> 06:28:39.922
We do not have any protection

06:28:41.326 --> 06:28:43.260
they're all close knit
comfortable family.

06:28:45.563 --> 06:28:47.563
We are not getting in even

06:28:48.266 --> 06:28:50.668
when -- 99% of the time people
are right, okay.

06:28:52.871 --> 06:28:55.406
A court family, that's
outrageous.
The facts are clear.

06:28:56.307 --> 06:28:58.307
If our justice system is a

06:28:59.243 --> 06:29:00.744
family, then justice does not
exist.

06:29:01.846 --> 06:29:03.380
We the people of new york trust
GOD.

06:29:05.717 --> 06:29:08.219
The corrupt has caused
irreparable harm to our youth by

06:29:09.221 --> 06:29:11.789
stealing them from one parent
drugging abusing torturing

06:29:12.957 --> 06:29:14.957
raping and murdering children.

06:29:16.561 --> 06:29:19.960
The horror must be our top
priority to investigate and

06:29:19.831 --> 06:29:21.831
prosecute the bad actors to

06:29:24.703 --> 06:29:27.371
protect all children it's the
baaed actors we have to
prosecute.

06:29:28.390 --> 06:29:30.390
Not the child and the parent.

06:29:32.210 --> 06:29:34.210
It's the evil person with the

06:29:34.312 --> 06:29:36.312
lie the corrupt judge, the

06:29:38.616 --> 06:29:40.616
lawyer who delays dilatory

06:29:40.619 --> 06:29:43.487
tactic so that the money machine
keeps coming 350 and hour, 450

06:29:44.690 --> 06:29:46.690
an hour, 750 an hour.

06:29:46.958 --> 06:29:48.993
Next thing you know they have a
30,000 dollar bill and the

06:29:53.631 --> 06:29:55.631
parent is losing their house.

06:29:55.833 --> 06:29:58.268
All you guys do is waste time
creating more separation by

06:29:58.570 --> 06:30:00.872
reprotecting the corrupt with
another hearing, meeting report

06:30:01.139 --> 06:30:03.139
that goes nowhere.

06:30:03.175 --> 06:30:05.810
For decades parents lose their
whole life fighting for our

06:30:07.112 --> 06:30:09.847
children who are in grave danger
using the police as their

06:30:11.683 --> 06:30:14.170
private gatekeepers against us
for exposing injustice.

06:30:14.319 --> 06:30:17.880
When we speak out, we are in
contempt of court.

06:30:19.591 --> 06:30:21.591
If we talk, how many parents

06:30:22.194 --> 06:30:24.194
said they were put in jail

06:30:25.497 --> 06:30:27.497
because they were outspoken that

06:30:29.567 --> 06:30:31.567
one woman sitting here.

06:30:31.636 --> 06:30:33.636
For decades children were being

06:30:34.173 --> 06:30:36.340
raped in churches, boy scouts,
foster care and from their own

06:30:37.420 --> 06:30:39.420
parents all covered up by

06:30:39.770 --> 06:30:41.450
powerful people.
Black children traded for white

06:30:41.913 --> 06:30:43.913
in the criminal justice system

06:30:46.217 --> 06:30:48.652
is enough proof many of people
stayed silent until one of you

06:30:49.387 --> 06:30:51.387
get caught like governor cuomo

06:30:52.858 --> 06:30:55.393
who started the mooreland
commission and shut it down when

06:30:56.595 --> 06:30:58.996
hundreds of parents stood in
line to testify against their

06:30:59.631 --> 06:31:01.732
children all covered up by the
corrupt establishment.

06:31:05.737 --> 06:31:07.737
Hundreds of people, sir.

06:31:08.207 --> 06:31:09.807
SEPTEMBER 17, 2013 at pace
university.

06:31:10.743 --> 06:31:12.977
A selected few of us, I happen
to testify.

06:31:13.780 --> 06:31:14.579
We were able to get through
those doors.

06:31:15.614 --> 06:31:17.614
When I came out, I was

06:31:19.351 --> 06:31:21.886
surrounded by parents who lost
their children.

06:31:22.870 --> 06:31:24.870
I was dysfunctional.

06:31:24.122 --> 06:31:25.789
I was dysfunctional hearing
their stories.

06:31:26.525 --> 06:31:27.992
Can you imagine their
dysfunction?

06:31:29.495 --> 06:31:31.495
And then we discriminate against

06:31:31.930 --> 06:31:33.930
them, call them mental and put

06:31:34.333 --> 06:31:36.167
them in mental institutions?
What are we doing?

06:31:36.702 --> 06:31:39.336
What are we doing?
Any parent who fights for their

06:31:40.472 --> 06:31:43.700
child is normal.
That's a sane individual when

06:31:43.375 --> 06:31:45.900
they stand strong and fight for
their child.

06:31:45.477 --> 06:31:47.477
Look at nature.

06:31:47.680 --> 06:31:49.680
Animals, do they not fight for

06:31:50.783 --> 06:31:52.783
their cubs, deuce a lion does a

06:31:52.851 --> 06:31:55.200
lion not fight for their can you
bees are they considered crazy?

06:31:55.200 --> 06:31:57.555
That's outrageous.
that's enough now with these

06:31:58.290 --> 06:32:00.391
forensic evaluators and these
forensic evaluators are all

06:32:01.560 --> 06:32:03.560
connected to each other.

06:32:03.562 --> 06:32:05.562
They're all connected.

06:32:07.399 --> 06:32:09.399
The psych evaluation, the law

06:32:10.235 --> 06:32:12.235
guardian, the attorney for the

06:32:12.838 --> 06:32:15.606
child, the 18b attorney, the
judge, they're all connected.

06:32:19.945 --> 06:32:21.945
There is no separation at all.

06:32:23.215 --> 06:32:25.215
And C.P.S.

06:32:25.417 --> 06:32:28.190
See sex trafficking children
still exists.

06:32:29.421 --> 06:32:32.230
It hasn't stopped.
The worse coverup in suffolk

06:32:33.325 --> 06:32:35.325
county is the murder of thomas

06:32:35.695 --> 06:32:38.363
valva tortured to him and his
brothers anthony andrew by their

06:32:38.564 --> 06:32:40.564
own father, a police officer who

06:32:40.633 --> 06:32:43.334
was protected by the blue.
Big issue that we are talking

06:32:43.936 --> 06:32:46.237
about, reinventing and
reinforming the police and

06:32:48.407 --> 06:32:50.407
making them a protective class.

06:32:50.842 --> 06:32:52.842
We got big issues.

06:32:54.247 --> 06:32:56.114
Anyone in law enforcement gets a
special treatment.

06:32:56.315 --> 06:32:58.818
Oh the children?
Oh he's a cop.

06:32:58.818 --> 06:33:01.786
He must be okay.
We are not going to go to C.P.S.

06:33:02.870 --> 06:33:04.870
We're going walk away because

06:33:05.858 --> 06:33:07.858
he's a cop.

06:33:07.926 --> 06:33:10.561
No law enforcement, the da,
C.P.S. Workers, attorney or

06:33:12.532 --> 06:33:14.532
judge was ever prosecuted of

06:33:14.567 --> 06:33:16.167
taking part not torturing of
these boys.

06:33:18.370 --> 06:33:20.370
If the police did not protect

06:33:20.673 --> 06:33:22.673
michael valva, justina would

06:33:23.142 --> 06:33:25.142
have saved her children.

06:33:25.677 --> 06:33:27.677
Nobody listened.

06:33:29.882 --> 06:33:32.217
She went everywhere.
There is enough material

06:33:33.919 --> 06:33:35.919
evidence to fill this room with

06:33:37.189 --> 06:33:39.591
proof the corrupt protect the
corrupt.
Leaving parents with nowhere to

06:33:40.125 --> 06:33:42.125
go to protect their family.

06:33:42.427 --> 06:33:44.427
They have nowhere to go.

06:33:45.265 --> 06:33:46.765
game over for us.
Look.

06:33:47.467 --> 06:33:49.467
How do we survive?

06:33:51.337 --> 06:33:53.337
How do we survive?

06:33:53.472 --> 06:33:55.472
Nothing will ever change if we

06:33:55.774 --> 06:33:57.774
do not start prosecuting under

06:33:59.345 --> 06:34:01.379
the penal law of perjury and
filing of false reports with

06:34:02.347 --> 06:34:04.416
lawmaker and the new york
unified court system.

06:34:06.752 --> 06:34:09.721
When a judge lies and he does
something wrong, get him off the

06:34:09.889 --> 06:34:11.456
bench.
That's enough.

06:34:18.964 --> 06:34:21.500
Get rid of qualified immunity.
Absolute and qualified immunity.

06:34:25.104 --> 06:34:27.104
Thank you sir for correcting me.

06:34:28.400 --> 06:34:30.141
Governor cuomo started the blue
ribbon commission on

06:34:30.776 --> 06:34:33.378
investigating forensic
evaluators.
This commission had two hearings

06:34:39.452 --> 06:34:41.452
for the public that no one knew

06:34:41.521 --> 06:34:43.889
about.
I am requesting this committee

06:34:45.124 --> 06:34:47.792
to talk to the new governor and
all involved having many more

06:34:48.194 --> 06:34:51.960
hearings with the topic of
families and children so you can

06:34:51.931 --> 06:34:53.931
allow all to testify to really

06:34:55.101 --> 06:34:57.101
protect our children from this

06:34:57.203 --> 06:34:59.304
corrupt world these hearings
need to be advertised in all

06:35:04.577 --> 06:35:06.577
court buildings.

06:35:08.470 --> 06:35:10.470
Parents are the blue ribbon

06:35:11.784 --> 06:35:13.784
protectors: we are the

06:35:13.787 --> 06:35:16.488
protectors opposite of these
made up the commission of the

06:35:17.123 --> 06:35:19.123
same old boys club of covering

06:35:19.592 --> 06:35:21.592
up grave issues facing society

06:35:22.829 --> 06:35:24.829
when we do not protect our

06:35:26.565 --> 06:35:28.565
children, society crumbles so I

06:35:29.680 --> 06:35:31.503
want to leave you with a very
strong prayer for all of us.

06:35:32.505 --> 06:35:34.505
Our father, who art in heaven,

06:35:34.541 --> 06:35:36.541
hallow it be thy name.

06:35:36.976 --> 06:35:38.610
Thy kingdom come, thy will be
done on empire state development

06:35:40.713 --> 06:35:42.681
as it is in heaven -- on earth as
it is in heaven.

06:35:44.160 --> 06:35:46.160
give us our daily bread and

06:35:46.285 --> 06:35:49.540
forgive us our trespasses as we
forgive those who trespass

06:35:50.123 --> 06:35:52.625
against us and lead us not into
temptation but deliver us from
evil.

06:35:52.625 --> 06:35:53.992
Amen.
Thank you, sir.

06:36:03.200 --> 06:36:05.539
Thank you so much for this.
>> I'm the mother of two boys

06:36:05.539 --> 06:36:08.174
luke and ray.
My expertise for over a decade

06:36:08.174 --> 06:36:10.174
is accounting.

06:36:10.810 --> 06:36:12.811
I do both forensic and auditing,
dealt with the I.R.S. And I

06:36:14.881 --> 06:36:16.949
dealt with starms.
State departmented on

06:36:16.949 --> 06:36:18.949
SEPTEMBER 19, 2018 I was

06:36:19.252 --> 06:36:21.687
assaulted in my apartment by my
former partner holding my

06:36:21.687 --> 06:36:23.687
newborn baby.

06:36:25.525 --> 06:36:27.660
On DECEMBER 13, 2018, a family
court investigation was ordered

06:36:28.728 --> 06:36:30.728
by the family court referee

06:36:30.797 --> 06:36:32.797
because he filed for custody

06:36:33.566 --> 06:36:35.566
even though he had I had an

06:36:36.569 --> 06:36:38.569
order of protection issued

06:36:43.777 --> 06:36:45.811
against him then I got involved
with acs.

06:36:49.616 --> 06:36:51.616
And due to that

06:36:53.486 --> 06:36:56.880
and due to that family court at
acs was unleashed unto my

06:36:56.880 --> 06:36:58.880
children and me.

06:37:00.160 --> 06:37:02.795
I live in suffolk county and I
lived in suffolk county, he
could file in queens because

06:37:05.532 --> 06:37:07.532
that's where he lived, and so

06:37:08.168 --> 06:37:10.402
while suffolk county dss who was
given second primary because

06:37:11.804 --> 06:37:13.804
that's where I lived, indicated

06:37:14.307 --> 06:37:16.307
him for domestic violence, the

06:37:17.377 --> 06:37:19.450
acs saw fit to influence his
criminal court proceedings to

06:37:20.514 --> 06:37:23.315
have my baby removed from the
order of protection.

06:37:26.386 --> 06:37:28.386
And they redrafted their 1034

06:37:28.988 --> 06:37:31.890
report so that it could show -- 
it could be shown to the

06:37:31.524 --> 06:37:34.260
criminal court judge that there
was nothing wrong.
he was fine.

06:37:37.798 --> 06:37:40.633
No damage was done that day.
And then two more violations of

06:37:41.935 --> 06:37:44.703
my order of protection, suffolk
county dss obtained an order of

06:37:45.400 --> 06:37:47.306
protection for my baby because
he had been removed.

06:37:47.307 --> 06:37:49.307
Acs did nothing.

06:37:49.475 --> 06:37:51.475
They were quiet.

06:37:52.790 --> 06:37:54.790
Two more indicated findings of

06:37:54.147 --> 06:37:56.582
maltreatment and inadequate
guardianship against him.

06:37:57.884 --> 06:37:59.884
Acs did nothing.

06:38:00.520 --> 06:38:02.520
To conceal they are egregious

06:38:02.822 --> 06:38:05.791
negligence, they begin
fabricating the 1034 reports

06:38:08.162 --> 06:38:10.930
that the referee was ordering.
So here's a fun fact.

06:38:12.232 --> 06:38:14.232
When a referee or you a judge

06:38:14.234 --> 06:38:16.234
issues a 1034 investigation,

06:38:17.437 --> 06:38:19.437
it's a court order, and acs has

06:38:19.472 --> 06:38:21.473
to go and register it with the
state's central edge industry.

06:38:22.208 --> 06:38:24.843
You get your letter in the mail
from albany that a report has

06:38:25.446 --> 06:38:27.680
been registered.
I didn't know that at the time.

06:38:28.148 --> 06:38:30.616
There were no letters in the
mail.
They weren't registering the

06:38:31.118 --> 06:38:33.118
court orders.

06:38:33.387 --> 06:38:35.387
They were forging the signatures

06:38:36.857 --> 06:38:39.525
in the reports and then photo
shopping fax information on top

06:38:40.930 --> 06:38:42.828
of each page to say that suffolk
county was sending them through

06:38:43.264 --> 06:38:45.465
fax, and it was interesting
because their supervising

06:38:45.866 --> 06:38:47.866
attorney would come into comport

06:38:48.735 --> 06:38:50.735
and point to the fax information

06:38:52.973 --> 06:38:55.407
that said "from suffolk dfs."
this way she wouldn't have to
lie.

06:38:55.976 --> 06:38:57.976
She would just be pointing to

06:38:58.311 --> 06:39:00.311
it.

06:39:00.881 --> 06:39:02.749
So that's how they took my
baby.

06:39:05.586 --> 06:39:07.586
On AUGUST 27, 2019, the social

06:39:07.888 --> 06:39:10.523
worker from acs made an
anonymous report against me.

06:39:12.392 --> 06:39:15.270
he called in anonymously.
For two years I had been saying

06:39:16.296 --> 06:39:18.798
that it was him who called, and
then finally he admitted it

06:39:21.902 --> 06:39:24.537
because he had no other choice.
That's how they got my baby out

06:39:25.739 --> 06:39:27.739
of suffolk county.

06:39:29.910 --> 06:39:31.910
On the 29th -- that same night

06:39:32.712 --> 06:39:34.712
at 6:10 P.M. He calls me to tell

06:39:34.815 --> 06:39:36.820
me that I need to be at a cse
meeting.

06:39:37.818 --> 06:39:39.752
I tell him, what's a cse
meeting, I ask him.

06:39:40.220 --> 06:39:41.754
The if you want your baby back,
you'll be there.

06:39:42.723 --> 06:39:44.791
Of course I want my baby back.
I go.

06:39:45.250 --> 06:39:47.593
And it's an ambush.
They give me a piece of paper

06:39:52.433 --> 06:39:54.935
and they tell me, "sign it."
say that you never saw bruises

06:39:55.403 --> 06:39:57.504
on your baby and that doctors
never reported it or you're

06:39:58.572 --> 06:40:01.140
going to go to jail."
I said, "no.

06:40:02.843 --> 06:40:05.578
We're going to take your other
son and put him in foster care

06:40:05.879 --> 06:40:07.879
if you don't sign it and the

06:40:07.881 --> 06:40:10.150
judge will put you in jail
because she's done it before.

06:40:11.352 --> 06:40:13.920
I didn't want to sign it.
Suffolk county dss happened to

06:40:14.121 --> 06:40:16.222
call me during that meeting.
They wanted to know what it was

06:40:17.910 --> 06:40:19.910
about because they were asking

06:40:19.493 --> 06:40:21.861
acs because the report came in
anonymously, not that acs

06:40:22.462 --> 06:40:25.197
called.
They told me not to sign
anything.

06:40:25.966 --> 06:40:27.233
They said, "don't sign
anything.

06:40:29.237 --> 06:40:31.400
Tell them you with an a
lawyer."
I did.

06:40:31.672 --> 06:40:33.672
It was the best advise they gave

06:40:33.908 --> 06:40:36.576
me because they actually let me
keep a copy of what they wanted

06:40:39.279 --> 06:40:41.279
me to sign, which said that no

06:40:41.715 --> 06:40:43.715
doctors saw bruises on my baby

06:40:45.190 --> 06:40:47.530
and that I didn't, either.
So -- 

06:40:48.856 --> 06:40:51.324
>> by the way, sorry, how can
you testify on behalf of a

06:40:52.426 --> 06:40:54.194
doctor and what he saw or signed
that?
The whole thing is -- 

06:40:56.263 --> 06:40:58.498
>> they never spoke to any
doctors.
>> please continue.
I'm sorry.

06:41:00.670 --> 06:41:02.670
>> because they had no hippa and

06:41:04.238 --> 06:41:06.340
they were secondary, so they
didn't.

06:41:06.340 --> 06:41:08.340
The suffolk county social worker

06:41:08.376 --> 06:41:10.944
has want was sending information
from the doctors who were

06:41:11.345 --> 06:41:13.446
reporting bruises on a child who
did not walk.

06:41:14.682 --> 06:41:17.170
So acs was closing the
investigations.
They were closing them.

06:41:17.170 --> 06:41:19.185
As soon as they were reported,
they were closing them.

06:41:21.550 --> 06:41:23.590
And in court, they were 15ing -- 
I don't know -- she's crazy.

06:41:24.492 --> 06:41:27.360
She's taking the baby to the
doctor, and this is the
supervising attorney.

06:41:27.495 --> 06:41:29.896
She's taking the baby to the
doctor, and the doctors are

06:41:31.832 --> 06:41:34.168
saying there's nothing there.
Well, yeah, because your closing

06:41:34.168 --> 06:41:36.969
the investigations.
And then they were opening up

06:41:37.872 --> 06:41:39.840
new ones in my name to defer
that responsibility back to

06:41:40.742 --> 06:41:43.677
suffolk county who was saying
the bruises didn't happen when

06:41:43.911 --> 06:41:46.120
she had the baby.
They happened when he had the

06:41:46.947 --> 06:41:49.616
baby.
But that's not how acs was

06:41:50.818 --> 06:41:52.818
saying it in court, which is why

06:41:53.530 --> 06:41:55.756
they were fabricating the 1034
reports.

06:42:01.529 --> 06:42:04.431
On AUGUST 30th acs filed an
article 10 against me for what

06:42:04.532 --> 06:42:06.866
the doctors reported because I
refused to sign the false

06:42:09.770 --> 06:42:12.438
confession.
And then they gave my baby over

06:42:15.276 --> 06:42:17.276
to his abuser.

06:42:18.446 --> 06:42:20.446
And then as soon as I got to see

06:42:20.781 --> 06:42:23.516
my baby, bruises again all
over.
Do you think it went on any

06:42:23.718 --> 06:42:26.453
report?
Nope.
That's the social worker.

06:42:28.389 --> 06:42:31.580
Those are fingerprints on my
baby's arms.
Somebody was grabbing him.

06:42:31.693 --> 06:42:33.693
His father.

06:42:35.960 --> 06:42:37.960
Again, when he didn't walk, same

06:42:37.198 --> 06:42:39.198
bruises, arms and legs,

06:42:39.433 --> 06:42:41.340
fingerprint marks.
Okay?

06:42:41.936 --> 06:42:43.936
That's an upper cut to a baby's

06:42:45.739 --> 06:42:47.974
jaw.
It's written nowhere.

06:42:50.780 --> 06:42:52.780
And when I was asking the social

06:42:52.347 --> 06:42:55.820
worker, what happened to my
baby?
He kept screaming at me, stop

06:42:56.384 --> 06:42:58.384
asking me questions.

06:43:00.254 --> 06:43:01.688
I don't have the answers to.
Okay?

06:43:03.724 --> 06:43:06.594
To this day they say, nope,
there's no reports of abuse,

06:43:07.796 --> 06:43:10.130
there's no more doctors'
reporting it.
There's nobody.

06:43:10.965 --> 06:43:13.834
In fact, they said in court that
I was calling in pretending to

06:43:13.835 --> 06:43:15.835
be different people.

06:43:16.337 --> 06:43:18.337
Mind you, I have hundreds of

06:43:19.307 --> 06:43:22.242
pages of medical records that
show doctors were reporting and

06:43:23.545 --> 06:43:25.545
documenting bruises on my baby,

06:43:28.249 --> 06:43:30.170
but acs said it never happened.
Yep.

06:43:31.552 --> 06:43:33.552
And today over six months now my

06:43:34.422 --> 06:43:37.230
baby has been in albania with a
fraudulent U.S. Passport that

06:43:37.224 --> 06:43:40.126
acs helped him get.
In fact, when the fbi called

06:43:44.699 --> 06:43:46.699
asking for where's my baby, they

06:43:48.756 --> 06:43:50.504
handed the agent a fake order of
custody on my docket number that

06:43:51.239 --> 06:43:53.607
was dismissed and then they
subsequently deleted it from the

06:43:56.770 --> 06:43:58.814
system.
Martha stewart went to jail for

06:43:58.814 --> 06:44:01.315
lying to the fbi.
These people are still walking

06:44:03.652 --> 06:44:05.652
free.

06:44:06.154 --> 06:44:09.220
And so now they want to hold a
trial, they want to go ahead and

06:44:09.390 --> 06:44:11.525
continue with their article 10
trial, but they don't like to

06:44:13.600 --> 06:44:15.696
put on the record that he's in
albania.

06:44:16.665 --> 06:44:18.665
If it weren't for covid, he'd

06:44:20.680 --> 06:44:22.680
have to be here.

06:44:22.737 --> 06:44:24.710
But any time I ask, how is my
baby?

06:44:26.407 --> 06:44:28.407
Where is my baby?

06:44:29.610 --> 06:44:31.610
The judge hides her voice and

06:44:32.214 --> 06:44:34.649
shuts off her camera and objects
to my question, and then

06:44:36.852 --> 06:44:39.587
sustains it with a higher
voice.
I have witnesses, because I'm

06:44:40.922 --> 06:44:43.290
saying this stuff is going on,
the judge is concealing her

06:44:43.725 --> 06:44:45.725
voice and then sustaining her

06:44:46.127 --> 06:44:48.127
own objections.

06:44:50.933 --> 06:44:52.933
How do you fight that?

06:44:54.996 --> 06:44:56.971
And, yeah, like he said, acs,
the supervising attorney is

06:44:57.739 --> 06:44:59.739
using her new name, her new

06:45:00.410 --> 06:45:02.410
agency is called nyc children,

06:45:03.578 --> 06:45:04.845
and that's the name they use on
subpoenas.

06:45:06.381 --> 06:45:08.381
And the subpoenas aren't even

06:45:08.951 --> 06:45:11.519
sent to real email addresses.
They're not even sent to real

06:45:12.354 --> 06:45:15.220
people.
But the records and the

06:45:15.230 --> 06:45:17.230
witnesses still manage to show

06:45:17.892 --> 06:45:19.892
up in court.

06:45:20.562 --> 06:45:22.562
When I call -- I mean, they have

06:45:22.830 --> 06:45:25.633
these affidavits of service to
the same email address that if

06:45:26.268 --> 06:45:28.268
you type in and send something

06:45:30.872 --> 06:45:32.872
to, comes back undeliverable.

06:45:33.708 --> 06:45:35.708
Then you have a cop show up in

06:45:36.144 --> 06:45:38.144
court, and you find out from

06:45:38.646 --> 06:45:41.480
headquarters they had no idea.
his supervisors didn't know he

06:45:41.282 --> 06:45:43.282
was in court.

06:45:43.285 --> 06:45:44.585
Nobody knew because nobody got a
subpoena.

06:45:45.287 --> 06:45:46.788
How did he know to come to
court?

06:45:47.556 --> 06:45:49.857
Judge wouldn't let me ask him.
But when I kept repeatedly

06:45:50.959 --> 06:45:52.827
asking him, how did you know to
come to court?

06:45:53.361 --> 06:45:56.300
Because I didn't even know you
were coming to court.

06:45:59.670 --> 06:46:01.670
The judge said, stop badgering

06:46:01.837 --> 06:46:04.572
my witness.
Well, I said to her, your

06:46:06.308 --> 06:46:08.308
witness is a liar.

06:46:08.377 --> 06:46:10.377
Never corrected me.

06:46:11.546 --> 06:46:14.415
The judges in court do the job
for acs.

06:46:17.686 --> 06:46:19.686
And that came out in all of

06:46:20.522 --> 06:46:22.757
their audits, from the
comptroller's office.

06:46:23.225 --> 06:46:25.693
She pulled I a. An discuss for
all of it.

06:46:26.161 --> 06:46:28.161
Well, once a family court judge

06:46:28.196 --> 06:46:29.556
takes it over, my hands are
tied.

06:46:30.232 --> 06:46:32.600
There's nothing I can do.
It's not anything I can do.

06:46:34.350 --> 06:46:36.704
I can't overrule a judge.
That's right, you can't overrule

06:46:37.940 --> 06:46:39.940
a judge, but you can make sure

06:46:41.910 --> 06:46:43.911
that acs and cps is doing their
job.

06:46:45.470 --> 06:46:47.470
And so when each time these

06:46:49.151 --> 06:46:51.151
auditors come in and audit these

06:46:52.988 --> 06:46:54.988
random records, they can't use

06:46:56.158 --> 06:46:57.992
the billion dollar state central
register program where all of

06:47:00.229 --> 06:47:02.630
these things are supposed to be,
everything.
If there's any family in the

06:47:04.232 --> 06:47:07.168
system, it comes into the state
central register.

06:47:09.304 --> 06:47:11.706
But what most people have gotten
or realized what a lot of other

06:47:12.608 --> 06:47:14.608
families are saying is that acs

06:47:15.770 --> 06:47:17.178
is bypassing the state central
register, so if you really want

06:47:19.748 --> 06:47:21.916
to screw with somebody, you call
them directly and they'll come

06:47:24.520 --> 06:47:26.520
to your house and they'll bring

06:47:26.254 --> 06:47:28.254
their nypd cops that are inside

06:47:28.991 --> 06:47:31.759
those cac centers, those
community centers that they work

06:47:33.529 --> 06:47:35.129
out of, and they'll come to your
home.

06:47:35.731 --> 06:47:38.366
The child advocacy centers,
yep.
They'll come to your home,

06:47:39.100 --> 06:47:41.169
they'll bang on your door, and
you'll hear them.

06:47:41.169 --> 06:47:44.106
They forgot their warrant.
How did you get the cop to come

06:47:44.106 --> 06:47:46.141
to their house if you didn't
have a warrant?

06:47:46.242 --> 06:47:48.877
What did you show them?
What did you tell them?

06:47:50.746 --> 06:47:52.746
And so there's no history in the

06:47:52.748 --> 06:47:54.782
state central register that any
report was made because it was

06:47:59.210 --> 06:48:01.622
made directly to acs.
And they couple with the other

06:48:02.125 --> 06:48:04.626
end letter of indicated finding
which is basically something

06:48:05.561 --> 06:48:07.561
similar to what you would get

06:48:07.897 --> 06:48:10.765
from the state central register
except for the fact that the

06:48:12.670 --> 06:48:14.100
entire top half doesn't have the
seal, didn't you doesn't have

06:48:14.336 --> 06:48:16.771
the governor's name, doesn't
have the commissioner's name
here.

06:48:17.139 --> 06:48:19.139
They print it out and they

06:48:19.609 --> 06:48:22.244
create their own.
And they'll send it the to you

06:48:23.779 --> 06:48:25.779
from herr office or they'll come

06:48:26.649 --> 06:48:29.384
and they'll just drop it off.
>> thank you for your
testimony.

06:48:29.752 --> 06:48:31.519
I really appreciate it.
Thank you.

06:48:35.824 --> 06:48:38.794
>> hi, my name is robert burke.
I just wanted to touch on what

06:48:39.195 --> 06:48:41.296
marie said about knowing about
this hearing.

06:48:41.864 --> 06:48:43.932
I only found out about it the
other day, and I didn't have

06:48:44.667 --> 06:48:47.469
time to prepare.
I had to work last night.

06:48:48.437 --> 06:48:50.437
i only got like two hours sleep

06:48:51.306 --> 06:48:52.907
last night, so I have a small
preparation.

06:48:54.243 --> 06:48:56.878
>> and, by the way, so that's on
me.
We got the hearing notice

06:48:57.180 --> 06:48:59.180
approved like a week before the

06:48:59.182 --> 06:49:01.383
actual hearing, so I apologize
for the short notice.

06:49:01.684 --> 06:49:03.685
We'll try to do better next
time, you the about we'll if I

06:49:03.919 --> 06:49:05.954
have more opportunities or take
as much time as you need.

06:49:06.188 --> 06:49:08.188
>> thank you.

06:49:08.190 --> 06:49:10.191
Once again, hello.
My name is robert burke.

06:49:11.460 --> 06:49:13.161
I'm a loving father whose
relationships was severely

06:49:13.830 --> 06:49:15.797
damaged with my son due the to
broken family law system.

06:49:16.399 --> 06:49:19.367
From the beginning of my
divorce, I had asked for a

06:49:19.569 --> 06:49:21.369
guardian and a forensic
psychologist because of things

06:49:23.339 --> 06:49:25.306
that were taking place.
I'm not going to talk bad about

06:49:27.420 --> 06:49:29.100
my son's mother, but I will say
that things weren't properly

06:49:31.514 --> 06:49:34.820
being done.
It was after I switched to my

06:49:35.618 --> 06:49:38.353
second attorney that I finally
found out -- finally had a law

06:49:39.589 --> 06:49:42.570
guardian appointed, so I
thought.
I later found out that there are

06:49:42.725 --> 06:49:45.426
no longer law guardians in new
york, but it is now attorneys

06:49:46.462 --> 06:49:48.230
for the child that have taken
their place.

06:49:49.532 --> 06:49:51.733
Little did I know was that
attorney for the child does not

06:49:52.368 --> 06:49:55.337
represent what's in the child's
best interests but rather what

06:49:56.772 --> 06:49:59.274
is -- what the child wants.
What child wouldn't rather live

06:49:59.608 --> 06:50:02.343
with the parent that is not
being a parent with letting them

06:50:03.112 --> 06:50:06.810
do what they want, eat what they
want, let them feel like they

06:50:07.217 --> 06:50:10.180
are literally the boss.
after realizing how biased the

06:50:10.586 --> 06:50:12.586
attorney for the child was, I

06:50:12.588 --> 06:50:13.922
put a motion in to have her
removed.

06:50:15.658 --> 06:50:18.493
She was not removed and had even
more hatred towards me

06:50:19.462 --> 06:50:22.397
afterwards.
After I found out that the

06:50:22.933 --> 06:50:24.933
attorney for the child

06:50:24.968 --> 06:50:27.236
represented what the child
wants, rather than what's in the

06:50:27.670 --> 06:50:29.670
child's best interests, amongst

06:50:29.872 --> 06:50:32.541
other things, I fired my second
attorney.
My second attorney should have

06:50:33.676 --> 06:50:35.978
never allowed me to request for
an attorney for the child but

06:50:35.978 --> 06:50:38.513
rather should have advised
against it.

06:50:39.349 --> 06:50:41.349
With my third attorney, I

06:50:43.186 --> 06:50:45.721
requested a forensic
psychological evaluation once

06:50:47.257 --> 06:50:49.992
again and was appointed by the
court.
The attorney for the child

06:50:50.526 --> 06:50:52.861
outright lied and deceived the
court and led the court to

06:50:53.696 --> 06:50:55.696
believe that I was just asking

06:50:55.731 --> 06:50:58.534
for the forensics years later.
I was asking for the forensics

06:51:00.300 --> 06:51:02.300
from day one.

06:51:02.380 --> 06:51:04.390
It wasn't until almost five, six
years later that they were

06:51:05.241 --> 06:51:07.241
finally appointed.

06:51:07.977 --> 06:51:09.977
I have emails that confirm

06:51:10.379 --> 06:51:13.480
evidence that I was asking for
the forensic evaluator from the

06:51:13.649 --> 06:51:16.619
very beginning, approving that
the attorney for the child
lied.

06:51:17.320 --> 06:51:19.588
My third attorney knew that the
attorney for the child was

06:51:21.224 --> 06:51:23.792
continuing to do wrong and also
told me that the court saw what

06:51:24.594 --> 06:51:27.129
she was doing was wrong, but he
refused to put in a motion to

06:51:29.980 --> 06:51:31.980
have the afc removed.

06:51:31.467 --> 06:51:34.303
I went for approximately seven
years seeing my son min natural

06:51:35.572 --> 06:51:38.407
malley throughout the doors
proceedings which severely hurt
my relationship with him.

06:51:39.420 --> 06:51:41.977
Before the divorce proceedings
started, we had a dynamite
relationship.

06:51:43.212 --> 06:51:45.212
We used to go dirt bike riding,

06:51:45.314 --> 06:51:47.315
jet skiing, we had -- I had a
dynamite relationship with my

06:51:51.655 --> 06:51:53.522
son.
.

06:51:54.191 --> 06:51:56.191
By the time the court finally

06:51:56.526 --> 06:51:59.328
appointed the 14ics psychologist
it was too late because my son

06:52:01.564 --> 06:52:03.699
had already been manipulated and
believed things that were

06:52:03.700 --> 06:52:05.700
unfru.

06:52:06.200 --> 06:52:08.137
I was also -- I had also
presented to the court with a

06:52:09.740 --> 06:52:12.475
letter written by the apa, the
american psychological

06:52:12.476 --> 06:52:14.476
association, to PRESIDENT Trump

06:52:15.445 --> 06:52:18.213
stating how damaging it is to
children, keeping them from

06:52:18.748 --> 06:52:20.849
their parents at the border.
Meanwhile it's been happening

06:52:22.485 --> 06:52:24.853
here to our own children every
day in the united states for

06:52:25.656 --> 06:52:27.656
decades.

06:52:29.393 --> 06:52:31.393
If attached a copy of the report

06:52:32.162 --> 06:52:34.162
in its entirety, but I will

06:52:34.531 --> 06:52:36.199
briefly read the highlights,
what I have highlighted in the

06:52:44.740 --> 06:52:46.740
report.

06:52:46.476 --> 06:52:48.411
Decade of psychological research
have determined that it is in

06:52:49.312 --> 06:52:51.312
the best interests of the child

06:52:51.748 --> 06:52:54.350
and family to keep families
together.

06:52:55.885 --> 06:52:58.754
Research also suggests that the
longer parents and child are

06:52:59.290 --> 06:53:01.290
separated, the greater the

06:53:01.291 --> 06:53:03.291
reported symptoms of anxiety,

06:53:04.328 --> 06:53:06.328
depression for the child.

06:53:06.830 --> 06:53:09.365
Adverse chude experiences such
as -- childhood experiences such

06:53:11.340 --> 06:53:13.736
as parent-child confrontation
are important social detriment

06:53:15.805 --> 06:53:18.508
of mental disorders.
For children traumatic events

06:53:19.343 --> 06:53:22.790
can lead to the development
post-traumatic stress disorder

06:53:22.790 --> 06:53:24.790
and mental health disorders that

06:53:25.682 --> 06:53:27.682
can cause long lasting effects.

06:53:28.685 --> 06:53:30.886
As psychologists, we have
documented multiple harmful

06:53:32.388 --> 06:53:34.388
effects of parent-child

06:53:35.459 --> 06:53:36.959
separation on children's
emotional, psychological

06:53:38.429 --> 06:53:40.429
development and well-being and

06:53:40.931 --> 06:53:42.931
urge the current policy of the

06:53:44.000 --> 06:53:46.000
family separation be reversed.

06:53:47.938 --> 06:53:50.839
>> thank you very much.
Thank you.
I person it.

06:53:51.407 --> 06:53:53.943
Also, just for the record, I
agree with the scientists on
this one.

06:53:55.212 --> 06:53:56.946
Family separation is an adverse
childhood experience.

06:53:57.948 --> 06:54:00.117
It causes harm to the kids,
obviously causes harm to the

06:54:00.117 --> 06:54:02.218
family.
We're hearing you.

06:54:03.860 --> 06:54:05.860
So I want to thank all of you

06:54:05.722 --> 06:54:07.756
for taking the time to testify.
I'm not disappearing.

06:54:08.240 --> 06:54:10.693
>> I'm still not done.
>> oh, go ahead.

06:54:11.562 --> 06:54:14.630
Let him finish and then I'll get
back to you.
Yes, sir.

06:54:16.600 --> 06:54:19.135
>> okay.
I also have a good friend.

06:54:20.437 --> 06:54:22.437
Her name is juice tina.

06:54:26.677 --> 06:54:28.677
I spoke to her the other kay day

06:54:28.846 --> 06:54:31.515
and justina was kept from their
her three children for three

06:54:33.584 --> 06:54:35.619
years until her son was murder
justina has proofread this

06:54:35.619 --> 06:54:37.619
testimony and I have her

06:54:39.723 --> 06:54:42.658
permission to present it today.
It wasn't until her son tommy

06:54:44.195 --> 06:54:46.830
died that he got -- that she got
her other two children, andrew

06:54:47.798 --> 06:54:50.199
and anthony, back.
The children's father is in jail

06:54:50.601 --> 06:54:52.601
right now and charged with the

06:54:53.203 --> 06:54:55.203
murder of their son tommy.

06:54:55.873 --> 06:54:58.774
There are also numerous other
allegations, including sexual

06:54:59.476 --> 06:55:01.913
abuse that the court is fully
aware of but not pursuing.

06:55:01.913 --> 06:55:03.913
There is evidence that the

06:55:04.810 --> 06:55:06.810
children were going to school in

06:55:06.183 --> 06:55:08.652
clothes soaked in urine.
They were also going to school

06:55:08.652 --> 06:55:10.652
starving.

06:55:11.522 --> 06:55:13.156
And they were eating out of the
garbage.

06:55:14.570 --> 06:55:16.425
Many were made aware about the
abuse of the children, including

06:55:18.628 --> 06:55:20.697
the school, cps, attorneys and
judges.

06:55:20.965 --> 06:55:23.233
Justina filed complaints with
the suffolk county district

06:55:23.634 --> 06:55:25.634
attorney's office, nassau county

06:55:26.170 --> 06:55:28.170
district attorney's office, fbi,

06:55:28.706 --> 06:55:30.840
attorney general, white house,
cps hotline.

06:55:34.277 --> 06:55:36.277
Those reports on the cps hotline

06:55:38.820 --> 06:55:40.820
were closed -- were closed the

06:55:40.251 --> 06:55:42.919
next day without any
investigation and swiped under

06:55:42.920 --> 06:55:45.789
the rug.
This case was filed with

06:55:46.557 --> 06:55:48.658
enormous corruption,
manipulation and injustice and

06:55:51.261 --> 06:55:53.129
even until this day, non-those
individuals involved in covering

06:55:53.998 --> 06:55:55.998
up the crimes against my

06:55:56.400 --> 06:55:58.400
children were held criminally

06:55:59.603 --> 06:56:00.837
responsible for their unlawful
actions.

06:56:02.206 --> 06:56:05.740
They still kept their jobs,
potentially harming other
children.

06:56:06.577 --> 06:56:08.778
In this case, as in many,
children are kept from the

06:56:09.213 --> 06:56:11.213
loving parents and actually put

06:56:11.649 --> 06:56:12.950
into the hands of the abusive
parents.

06:56:14.552 --> 06:56:16.987
As the apa said in its report to
PRESIDENT Trump, children need

06:56:17.989 --> 06:56:19.989
their parents, both of them, not

06:56:20.825 --> 06:56:23.793
just one, after divorce.
About three years ago, kentucky

06:56:24.762 --> 06:56:26.762
passed a shared parenting bill

06:56:26.930 --> 06:56:28.930
and since that bill passed, it

06:56:28.967 --> 06:56:30.968
has been reported that claims of
domestic violence have dropped

06:56:31.903 --> 06:56:34.771
by the 30% and divorce filings
dropped by 10%.

06:56:35.306 --> 06:56:37.306
Think about how many children

06:56:39.430 --> 06:56:41.811
have not been damaged or killed
because of this shared parenting

06:56:42.446 --> 06:56:44.981
bill in kentucky.
We need a shared parenting bill

06:56:47.352 --> 06:56:49.352
to help our children.

06:56:50.455 --> 06:56:52.589
There are several states that
have shared parenting bills in

06:56:53.240 --> 06:56:54.958
legislation right now, although
shared parenting is not always

06:56:56.594 --> 06:56:58.561
in the best interests of the
child, as it than the woo have

06:57:00.397 --> 06:57:02.398
been in justina's case, it is in
the best interests of the

06:57:02.966 --> 06:57:04.966
children in most cases.

06:57:05.837 --> 06:57:08.205
And like I said earlier, in
justina's case her children were

06:57:09.400 --> 06:57:11.400
actually given to the wrong

06:57:11.776 --> 06:57:14.744
parent, the abusive parent.
The system, the way it is, is

06:57:16.981 --> 06:57:18.248
severely damaging and killing
children.

06:57:19.550 --> 06:57:21.550
Also, the rules of evidence need

06:57:22.887 --> 06:57:24.588
to be changed for the family in
matrimonial courts.

06:57:25.189 --> 06:57:28.158
It is not in the children's best
interests when a relative or

06:57:28.893 --> 06:57:30.994
imperative evidence is kept out
of evidence because of the

06:57:32.163 --> 06:57:34.163
current rules of evidence.

06:57:34.165 --> 06:57:36.165
All evidence in regards to the

06:57:36.667 --> 06:57:39.435
children should be accepted.
It's time for new york to step

06:57:40.839 --> 06:57:43.400
up and be a leader and support
shared parenting.

06:57:43.575 --> 06:57:45.575
Protect our children.

06:57:46.978 --> 06:57:48.978
On a final note in regards to my

06:57:49.714 --> 06:57:52.148
case, my forensic psychologist
recommended that my son and

06:57:53.584 --> 06:57:56.286
myself see a therapist to repair
our relationship.

06:57:57.522 --> 06:57:59.522
My son and I did see a

06:57:59.557 --> 06:58:01.458
therapist, and she recommended
and wrote several letters

06:58:02.527 --> 06:58:04.394
stating that I should be seeing
my son more.

06:58:04.962 --> 06:58:06.962
Each and every letter was

06:58:11.235 --> 06:58:13.870
ignored and disregarded.
the court in the forensics

06:58:15.607 --> 06:58:17.607
report, it said to the judge

06:58:17.676 --> 06:58:19.676
should go by what the next

06:58:19.677 --> 06:58:22.346
therapist said.
The judge completely ignored

06:58:26.250 --> 06:58:28.985
what the next therapist said.
There's a currently a

06:58:29.987 --> 06:58:31.987
documentary by ginger gentile

06:58:33.858 --> 06:58:35.858
calls "erasing family."

06:58:41.566 --> 06:58:44.201
it's something that I recommend.
My case is basically over.

06:58:45.603 --> 06:58:47.603
My son is almost 17.

06:58:48.390 --> 06:58:50.574
I'm here for our children and
for their children so that they

06:58:51.760 --> 06:58:53.760
don't ever have to go thereon

06:58:53.912 --> 06:58:55.912
what we through.

06:58:57.448 --> 06:59:00.183
I'm here on two hours sleep, a
day's notice, and that's what my

06:59:00.451 --> 06:59:02.753
children mean to me.
That's what everyone's child

06:59:03.154 --> 06:59:05.154
means to me.

06:59:05.590 --> 06:59:08.192
I don't ever want to see any one
of them go through it.

06:59:08.593 --> 06:59:11.228
I don't want to see your
children go through it.

06:59:12.364 --> 06:59:14.364
>> amen.

06:59:14.999 --> 06:59:16.999
>> yeah, clap.

06:59:17.502 --> 06:59:19.502
[Applause]

06:59:21.500 --> 06:59:23.500
MR. Burke, MS. Tucker,

06:59:23.400 --> 06:59:25.876
MR. Cibelli -- MS. Tony, do you
have a question?
>> yes.

06:59:28.113 --> 06:59:30.113
>> please feel free.

06:59:30.649 --> 06:59:33.150
>> this is a question.
I heard you say that you MAY

06:59:33.618 --> 06:59:35.619
talk to a couple of teem people
after this is done.

06:59:36.120 --> 06:59:38.120
So I have a question, then, and

06:59:42.494 --> 06:59:44.161
I would like to have it
practical, something done about

06:59:46.331 --> 06:59:48.331
it.

06:59:48.833 --> 06:59:50.833
From 45 years old now, and I

06:59:52.971 --> 06:59:55.305
came home from prison in 2013.
Remember, three years old is

06:59:56.307 --> 06:59:59.242
when they snatched me up.
I got let from foster care at

07:00:00.345 --> 07:00:02.345
14, and I didn't get let go from

07:00:03.915 --> 07:00:05.915
the system until I was 18, and I

07:00:07.419 --> 07:00:09.320
was sent home to my mother's
twin sister.

07:00:11.423 --> 07:00:13.423
my mother died of hiv and aids

07:00:15.727 --> 07:00:18.496
and so did her twin sister from
intravenous drug use and he was

07:00:19.531 --> 07:00:21.232
sick when they sent me home at
18 years old.

07:00:21.533 --> 07:00:23.834
Think about this.
You send a child home.

07:00:24.136 --> 07:00:26.136
She dies a month later.

07:00:26.338 --> 07:00:29.390
So I had to take care of myself
myself and her two children that

07:00:30.108 --> 07:00:32.643
was somewhere around my age, 13
and I think 18, also.

07:00:34.413 --> 07:00:36.413
Now, I want to know if there's

07:00:37.349 --> 07:00:39.116
anything that can be done
practically right now because I

07:00:39.751 --> 07:00:41.751
have a long history, and I still

07:00:43.688 --> 07:00:46.523
work with one of my -- one of my
therapists when I came home in

07:00:47.425 --> 07:00:49.960
2013 from prison, so they send
me down to the department of

07:00:50.295 --> 07:00:52.697
social services and give me a
doctor's letter saying MR. Tony

07:00:55.400 --> 07:00:58.202
is only eligible for a
motel/hotel placement because of

07:00:59.304 --> 07:01:01.500
his mental health disabilities.
My mental health disabilities

07:01:03.308 --> 07:01:05.308
was caused by trauma.

07:01:06.177 --> 07:01:08.278
Now I have a judge actually
stamping, saying the same thing,

07:01:09.248 --> 07:01:12.830
but the department of social
services refused to move me

07:01:13.485 --> 07:01:15.485
there so they kept moving me

07:01:15.988 --> 07:01:18.756
into shelters.
So now, because I'm a little

07:01:20.158 --> 07:01:22.593
tine bit articulate, it seems
like I don't have no issues to

07:01:22.727 --> 07:01:24.727
the people that I associate

07:01:25.530 --> 07:01:27.765
myself with out there, but
actually I'my homelessness still

07:01:28.267 --> 07:01:30.267
to this day, and they still to

07:01:31.103 --> 07:01:33.571
this day refuse to put me in a
hotel/hotel placement even

07:01:34.106 --> 07:01:36.106
though an administrative judge

07:01:37.900 --> 07:01:39.511
said put me there.
So I'm asking why do I have to

07:01:39.511 --> 07:01:40.744
continue to go through this
trauma.

07:01:41.579 --> 07:01:43.781
I want to know when somebody's
going to do something literally

07:01:44.316 --> 07:01:46.316
practically about it because I'm

07:01:47.720 --> 07:01:50.388
on the verge of, in their eyes,
which is why they watch me so

07:01:50.823 --> 07:01:52.823
much, of committing crimes

07:01:54.660 --> 07:01:56.660
because if a past history,

07:01:56.695 --> 07:01:58.362
because the complexion of my
skin, I have mental health

07:01:59.300 --> 07:02:00.264
disabilities, I came home from
prison.

07:02:01.300 --> 07:02:03.301
I have a lot of strikes against
me when you ask the law.

07:02:04.136 --> 07:02:06.905
But nobody is doing anything
practical about it.

07:02:07.339 --> 07:02:09.774
They're allowing the district
attorney and the police to keep

07:02:10.442 --> 07:02:13.211
coming after me as if I'm a
criminal when I'm telling them,

07:02:13.945 --> 07:02:16.514
house me so I don't have to be
in a park or on the streets for

07:02:17.182 --> 07:02:20.190
police to harasses me, to watch
me.
>> but it's go to shelter is

07:02:20.190 --> 07:02:22.190
what you're being told?

07:02:22.721 --> 07:02:25.623
>> yeah, go to a shelter or I
have to go down every day or

07:02:26.292 --> 07:02:29.930
every few days and they move me
from one shelter to another, but

07:02:31.630 --> 07:02:34.365
what would make me the stablest
is if they move me where the

07:02:36.235 --> 07:02:38.235
doctors and the therapist said

07:02:38.771 --> 07:02:41.639
would be beneficial and
conductive for me, conducive for

07:02:42.410 --> 07:02:44.709
me.
So I need, before I leave, I

07:02:45.811 --> 07:02:48.713
would like to have some
practical, some practical
answers.
>> here's what I got.

07:02:48.814 --> 07:02:50.648
I don't have the answer because
I don't know the case.

07:02:51.383 --> 07:02:53.684
I want to be completely honest.
After, let's talk.

07:02:55.121 --> 07:02:56.621
This is my guys ab alexa and
kevin.

07:02:57.490 --> 07:03:00.126
Megan is in the middle, but
alexa and kevin are mine.

07:03:00.126 --> 07:03:02.760
Actually talk to you about your
case and reach out to the dss

07:03:03.128 --> 07:03:05.329
and have a conversation.
I don't know enough about it but

07:03:05.764 --> 07:03:08.233
we are going to try to do
something practical.

07:03:08.233 --> 07:03:11.135
>> yes, sir, thank you.
>> just on a personal note, it

07:03:11.838 --> 07:03:14.406
does not escape me how brutal it
must to be sit up here and talk

07:03:14.574 --> 07:03:17.509
about these issues, soy I am
grateful to all of you.
Thank you.
I appreciate it.

07:03:18.144 --> 07:03:19.811
>> thank you.
>> yes, please.

07:03:22.381 --> 07:03:24.482
>> most people don't realize the
boilerplate pre-signed forms

07:03:26.318 --> 07:03:28.853
that acs uses and they call
petitions, they're not

07:03:29.489 --> 07:03:32.240
petitions, they're affidavits,
and under the code of federal

07:03:32.240 --> 07:03:34.240
regulations, which is the

07:03:34.427 --> 07:03:36.594
standard under title 4e for
reimbursement claims, they're

07:03:36.962 --> 07:03:38.962
not allowed.

07:03:40.766 --> 07:03:43.234
There's no affidavits allowed in
91 pro tunk orders and yet

07:03:43.535 --> 07:03:45.939
that's what they're using and it
seems to me that that's not what

07:03:45.939 --> 07:03:47.739
they're filing.
>> thank you for that.

07:03:49.709 --> 07:03:52.111
Thank you to everybody on this
panel.
So, my friends, we're nearing

07:03:52.111 --> 07:03:54.946
the end of it.
I think there's only two people

07:03:56.810 --> 07:03:58.383
on my list if I am correct who
have not yet testified.

07:03:59.785 --> 07:04:01.785
Robert -- I'm going to mess up

07:04:05.391 --> 07:04:08.326
this name -- greibesland.
From mid-hudson new york

07:04:08.928 --> 07:04:11.396
families for tomorrow and robert
malek, if we can do both.

07:04:12.631 --> 07:04:14.631
Sir, please.

07:04:16.502 --> 07:04:19.437
Is that okay?
Gentlemen.
Sir, please.

07:04:19.438 --> 07:04:21.839
The floor is yours.
>> mice to see you again.

07:04:22.308 --> 07:04:25.177
Actually I saw in 2019.
I wasn't able to speak but I

07:04:25.678 --> 07:04:27.846
stayed after and we got to speak
for a minute.
>> in this room.

07:04:28.800 --> 07:04:30.800
>> yes.

07:04:35.821 --> 07:04:37.821
Exactly.

07:04:38.190 --> 07:04:40.190
My name is robert greibesland.

07:04:40.460 --> 07:04:41.960
You did pretty well with my last
name.
>> thanks.

07:04:42.528 --> 07:04:44.528
>> with the new york families

07:04:45.465 --> 07:04:47.465
for tomorrow.

07:04:47.767 --> 07:04:50.468
And so I didn't have much time.
I just found out about this
yesterday.

07:04:51.637 --> 07:04:52.871
I'm hoping to come to future
events.

07:04:54.506 --> 07:04:57.376
I know there's other members of
my organization who is up in

07:04:57.410 --> 07:04:59.611
rochester right now and they
weren't able to get here today.

07:05:03.516 --> 07:05:05.483
>> we're going to do upstate,
so,y yeah.

07:05:06.352 --> 07:05:08.688
>> first and foremost, I just
wanted to say that after

07:05:08.688 --> 07:05:11.122
listening to everything that was
going on today, I myself have a

07:05:11.924 --> 07:05:14.920
lot to unpack, so I can only
imagine what you guys are going

07:05:14.961 --> 07:05:16.961
to be walking away from this

07:05:18.765 --> 07:05:20.765
with.

07:05:21.267 --> 07:05:23.935
But going along with what
anthony cibelli was saying

07:05:24.570 --> 07:05:26.571
earlier, bun of the first
mechanisms that really need to

07:05:27.640 --> 07:05:30.508
be utilized that's already in
existence with this system is

07:05:31.478 --> 07:05:33.478
purge ri.

07:05:34.314 --> 07:05:36.314
Purge ri perjury must be punched

07:05:37.830 --> 07:05:39.718
and any judge that you speak to
be, family court judge or family

07:05:40.530 --> 07:05:42.354
court attorney throughout the
entire state would tell you they

07:05:43.289 --> 07:05:45.289
don't do it, and it's of their

07:05:46.859 --> 07:05:48.859
opinion that by punishing

07:05:49.896 --> 07:05:51.896
perjury, they would open the

07:05:52.980 --> 07:05:54.833
floodgates and cause more issues
with parents.

07:05:54.968 --> 07:05:56.968
I think we're here today because

07:05:57.236 --> 07:05:59.838
of the fact that there is too
many issues already happening

07:06:00.606 --> 07:06:02.606
with the targeting of acs

07:06:03.109 --> 07:06:05.109
workers, with how they are

07:06:09.516 --> 07:06:12.351
operating without much guidance,
i guess would be the way to put

07:06:12.919 --> 07:06:14.919
it, and I agree and I appreciate

07:06:15.154 --> 07:06:17.154
what you guys are trying to do

07:06:17.857 --> 07:06:19.825
with the information -- 
gathering the information and

07:06:20.193 --> 07:06:22.827
trying to get rid of the
mandated reporting and things of

07:06:23.363 --> 07:06:25.363
that nature that have been

07:06:26.299 --> 07:06:28.968
really affecting parents.
And I think what I found

07:06:30.837 --> 07:06:32.837
interesting was I hear a lot of

07:06:34.107 --> 07:06:36.942
stories today with how people
are directly affected, and I

07:06:36.943 --> 07:06:39.578
think some of the stories that
we MAY be missing is how many

07:06:39.645 --> 07:06:42.181
people are affected because of
the use of fear.

07:06:43.350 --> 07:06:45.551
Fear tactics are being used
continuously throughout the

07:06:46.419 --> 07:06:48.419
state, particularly with the

07:06:49.322 --> 07:06:51.824
courts, especially with
attorneys, and they are creating

07:06:54.930 --> 07:06:56.930
an environment where two people

07:06:56.262 --> 07:06:58.597
who are come to the end of their
relationship don't know how they

07:06:59.366 --> 07:07:01.366
want to go about separating, and

07:07:01.635 --> 07:07:04.203
now they went from a -- what
could have been a peaceful

07:07:04.237 --> 07:07:06.237
separation with children where

07:07:07.707 --> 07:07:09.707
they could coparent and coexist

07:07:12.445 --> 07:07:14.445
to now hating each other and

07:07:15.414 --> 07:07:17.414
putting themselves in a more

07:07:17.818 --> 07:07:19.818
terrible position, and it's

07:07:21.154 --> 07:07:24.560
really hard to get past that.
You know, and I'm only

07:07:25.158 --> 07:07:26.792
mentioning this because this is
unbefore the things that I

07:07:28.294 --> 07:07:30.962
haven't heard yet today, but
for -- one of the things that I

07:07:31.597 --> 07:07:34.100
haven'ty heard yet today, but
for many fathers out there and

07:07:34.100 --> 07:07:36.102
many mothers out there, what
happens in the court, what

07:07:36.436 --> 07:07:38.436
happens with the process, what

07:07:38.605 --> 07:07:41.400
happens with the involvement acs
workers, cps workers, with the

07:07:42.209 --> 07:07:43.542
attorneys, there's a lot of
unforgivables.

07:07:44.544 --> 07:07:47.279
And when you're trying to create
an environment where you're

07:07:47.380 --> 07:07:49.581
putting parents together and
saying, look, you got to work

07:07:52.219 --> 07:07:54.219
this out for your kids but you

07:07:54.755 --> 07:07:57.423
just gave them a whole -- a lot
more reasons to hate each other,

07:07:59.259 --> 07:08:00.526
I just don't see how that can be
effective.

07:08:02.262 --> 07:08:04.663
It's just not possible.
Now, I'm actually going to try

07:08:05.965 --> 07:08:08.300
to get back over to my notes
here.

07:08:11.872 --> 07:08:13.872
>> please.

07:08:14.541 --> 07:08:16.909
>> so aside from perjury, I also
want to talk about false

07:08:17.911 --> 07:08:20.346
statements made to authorities.
And looking through the reports,

07:08:21.481 --> 07:08:24.383
it was very odd to me that in
2019 there were zero false

07:08:26.253 --> 07:08:28.755
reports as eps listed in their
finding.
Zero.

07:08:29.890 --> 07:08:31.890
That just makes absolutely no

07:08:32.893 --> 07:08:34.893
sense.

07:08:35.929 --> 07:08:37.929
I agree with this committee,

07:08:37.931 --> 07:08:40.265
courts need to be prioritized
placing children with kin.

07:08:40.467 --> 07:08:42.467
The foster system should be a

07:08:42.869 --> 07:08:45.605
last resort for children -- or
child placement.

07:08:46.707 --> 07:08:48.707
And I've spoken to so many, so

07:08:48.942 --> 07:08:50.942
many children or adults now who

07:08:52.790 --> 07:08:54.580
have gone through the system,
and one of the most shocking

07:08:55.480 --> 07:08:57.480
ones was from a girl that I

07:08:57.500 --> 07:08:59.885
spoke to a few years ago.
She does modeling in new york
city.

07:09:01.222 --> 07:09:02.455
She grew up in the foster
system.

07:09:04.591 --> 07:09:06.591
It started with her mother

07:09:08.195 --> 07:09:10.195
divorcing her father, winning

07:09:10.397 --> 07:09:12.397
custody and then about a year or

07:09:12.599 --> 07:09:14.599
so later I guess cps got

07:09:14.668 --> 07:09:16.668
involved in their life because

07:09:17.704 --> 07:09:19.704
mom had a drinking problem.

07:09:20.474 --> 07:09:22.474
And so she went and she agreed

07:09:24.311 --> 07:09:27.460
to terminate her parental rights
as long as the courts would not

07:09:28.682 --> 07:09:30.950
give the father any rights to
the children even though there

07:09:32.319 --> 07:09:34.853
was nothing wrong with him.
And that was something that

07:09:34.955 --> 07:09:36.955
happened probably about 30 years

07:09:37.158 --> 07:09:40.126
ago now.
But growing up in the foster

07:09:41.280 --> 07:09:43.280
care system, her and her two

07:09:44.531 --> 07:09:46.299
siblings realized when they
became teenagers that the

07:09:46.834 --> 07:09:48.834
parents that were fostering them

07:09:50.300 --> 07:09:52.300
were being paid by the state.

07:09:54.175 --> 07:09:56.943
This became very -- a very harsh
reality for them when her older

07:09:57.912 --> 07:10:00.790
brother turned 18 and they were
no longer college money and he

07:10:00.948 --> 07:10:03.383
was kicked out of the house.
Then she was told at 16 to go

07:10:04.170 --> 07:10:06.118
get a job, and that she was
going to pay rent on top of the

07:10:07.220 --> 07:10:09.221
money that she was collecting -- 
that they were collecting from

07:10:10.560 --> 07:10:12.580
the state in order to make up
the difference because there was

07:10:13.261 --> 07:10:15.261
no longer -- it no longer made

07:10:16.764 --> 07:10:18.764
sense for them to house her and

07:10:18.832 --> 07:10:20.832
her younger brother, so because

07:10:21.969 --> 07:10:23.969
of this threat, she went ahead

07:10:24.671 --> 07:10:27.440
and got the job and paid the
parents so that she could keep

07:10:27.874 --> 07:10:30.443
in contact with the younger
brother out of threat of

07:10:32.380 --> 07:10:34.380
separation between her and him.

07:10:35.516 --> 07:10:37.984
So she's much happier now not
being a part of that

07:10:39.219 --> 07:10:41.219
environment.

07:10:41.221 --> 07:10:43.456
She was able to find people that
actually cared and weren't

07:10:44.524 --> 07:10:46.524
looking for financial gain with

07:10:47.161 --> 07:10:50.300
that system.
And I know it's been a very hard

07:10:51.132 --> 07:10:53.433
story for her.
She hasn't actually come out in

07:10:53.634 --> 07:10:56.200
the open with it, and I won't
share her name or any of those

07:10:56.637 --> 07:10:59.205
things, but I thought it was a
story worth telling and having
on the record.

07:11:02.142 --> 07:11:04.142
>> thank you.

07:11:04.379 --> 07:11:06.846
>> so I also think we need to
look at eliminating the

07:11:07.281 --> 07:11:10.150
punishment on families by making
expectations that would not

07:11:11.252 --> 07:11:13.252
otherwise be expected by parents

07:11:13.654 --> 07:11:15.922
who have not gone to court.
I think that's a big one.

07:11:16.230 --> 07:11:18.925
I think when you walk into
family court, suddenly there's

07:11:19.459 --> 07:11:22.950
this layer of expectations being
placed on you that if you never

07:11:22.964 --> 07:11:24.964
had to go to court, would never

07:11:25.990 --> 07:11:27.990
have been there to begin with

07:11:28.602 --> 07:11:31.471
and you're really fighting
through, for lack of a better

07:11:34.274 --> 07:11:36.274
word, people judging you.

07:11:36.944 --> 07:11:38.644
So prioritizing distribution of
labor among willing parents

07:11:39.480 --> 07:11:42.182
rather than just dollar amounts
to be redirected I think would

07:11:42.650 --> 07:11:44.851
help a lot.
When you go into courts, they

07:11:45.319 --> 07:11:47.921
really, really care a lot about
the money and the wealth

07:11:48.756 --> 07:11:50.756
redistribution and they don't

07:11:52.559 --> 07:11:54.559
seem to have any tools or even

07:11:56.970 --> 07:11:58.499
care to help parents create a
healthy environment in which

07:11:59.133 --> 07:12:01.133
they can really coparent with

07:12:02.170 --> 07:12:03.670
their chairin.
Children.

07:12:06.941 --> 07:12:08.941
I took an excerpt from the 320

07:12:09.476 --> 07:12:11.476
pages that I saw that was -- 

07:12:12.479 --> 07:12:13.713
that you guys had listed on the
website.

07:12:15.817 --> 07:12:17.817
I forget the name of it.

07:12:18.186 --> 07:12:20.320
But the child maltreatment in
2019 report by the U.S.

07:12:21.550 --> 07:12:22.989
Department of health and human
services administration for

07:12:23.900 --> 07:12:25.959
children and families
administration on children,

07:12:27.928 --> 07:12:29.928
youth and families children's

07:12:30.130 --> 07:12:32.933
bureau -- wild name -- listed
that the educational
professionals were the first

07:12:33.668 --> 07:12:35.669
line of defense in reporting
maltreatment, and that parents

07:12:36.404 --> 07:12:38.171
were the top targets in
maltreatment with mothers

07:12:39.173 --> 07:12:42.142
slightly more likely to abuse
their children than fathers.

07:12:43.844 --> 07:12:45.844
And I found that statement to be

07:12:47.481 --> 07:12:49.481
kind of interesting because yet

07:12:51.753 --> 07:12:53.654
again you have -- you have these
statistics where they're saying

07:12:55.590 --> 07:12:57.658
or suggesting or -- yeah,
they're saying that the mothers

07:12:57.658 --> 07:12:59.994
are slightly more likely to
abuse their children than

07:12:59.994 --> 07:13:02.562
fathers.
I don't see the point in these

07:13:03.164 --> 07:13:05.164
things anymore.

07:13:06.568 --> 07:13:08.936
The numbers are almost so even,
it doesn't even make sense.

07:13:10.305 --> 07:13:12.305
It's a misrepresentation to even

07:13:12.740 --> 07:13:15.175
state it like that, in my
opinion.

07:13:15.343 --> 07:13:17.343
I think that when efforts are

07:13:17.745 --> 07:13:20.280
being made by both parents to
accommodate the childbearing

07:13:20.481 --> 07:13:22.515
process, it would be the
responsibility of both parents

07:13:23.685 --> 07:13:25.419
to limit the stress and need for
extra services.

07:13:26.287 --> 07:13:29.122
The court should be seeking to
encourage coparenting by driving

07:13:30.491 --> 07:13:32.926
for a 50/50 agreement with chun
can can made rather than

07:13:33.270 --> 07:13:35.270
creating more conflict through

07:13:35.930 --> 07:13:38.865
the existing adversarial
process.
Currently judges in now, are

07:13:38.966 --> 07:13:40.967
nervous about the idea of having
jury trials.

07:13:42.437 --> 07:13:44.437
They don't want to be dubbed the

07:13:44.839 --> 07:13:46.839
trailblazing judge who used an

07:13:47.442 --> 07:13:49.420
oh vores absented in the court
arena.

07:13:50.144 --> 07:13:52.679
Right now many bench there is
perceived generate bias toward

07:13:53.147 --> 07:13:55.147
one party or another which

07:13:57.518 --> 07:13:59.687
should not happen in a law that
equates generate equality.

07:13:59.955 --> 07:14:02.230
I'm fawning all biases.
Each judge has their own

07:14:02.230 --> 07:14:04.191
perceived bias.
You this might walk into the

07:14:04.959 --> 07:14:06.959
court of and they don't like the

07:14:07.280 --> 07:14:09.429
guy that day, maybe the girl.
Could be because their tall.

07:14:11.499 --> 07:14:13.499
Could be because they're short,

07:14:13.568 --> 07:14:16.337
black, ugly, whatever the case
is.
There's some sort of perceived

07:14:16.438 --> 07:14:19.206
bias that's happening in these
cases, and I've been a witness

07:14:19.941 --> 07:14:22.710
to enough of them now to
recognize a biased judge, and

07:14:23.912 --> 07:14:26.747
they're all biased, and there
needs to be some sort of

07:14:27.649 --> 07:14:29.649
guidance put in place to help

07:14:30.752 --> 07:14:32.752
them achieve better outcomes

07:14:36.725 --> 07:14:39.260
than what they're getting now.
Also, all the discretion judges

07:14:41.620 --> 07:14:43.997
will not currently grant an ell
equal parenting agreement where

07:14:44.432 --> 07:14:46.733
officially one party doesn't
agree yet there are two willing

07:14:48.200 --> 07:14:50.937
and available parents.
Right there in itself I have

07:14:53.275 --> 07:14:55.676
seen countless times you have
two parents who want to be a

07:14:56.278 --> 07:14:58.846
part of their children's live,
that want to have the

07:15:01.820 --> 07:15:03.717
responsibilities of their
children.
They would have that if they

07:15:05.186 --> 07:15:08.121
weren't going through this
process.
And for no other reason than a

07:15:09.391 --> 07:15:11.926
judge sitting there and saying,
I just don't believe in that,

07:15:12.694 --> 07:15:14.694
and I hear that all the time.

07:15:15.230 --> 07:15:17.230
I just do not believe in that.

07:15:17.399 --> 07:15:19.399
So you don't believe in the

07:15:19.601 --> 07:15:21.601
concept of shared parenting, so

07:15:22.370 --> 07:15:24.604
we're just going to make that
gospel here.

07:15:26.942 --> 07:15:28.843
Okay.
Cameras in the courts.

07:15:29.878 --> 07:15:32.813
The appellate and federal courts
have either audio or video

07:15:32.981 --> 07:15:34.981
equipment that broadcasts to the

07:15:35.830 --> 07:15:37.418
public.
This is a must.

07:15:38.219 --> 07:15:39.620
I don't know why we don't have
that.

07:15:41.890 --> 07:15:43.992
The federal court has it.
The appellate court has it.

07:15:44.660 --> 07:15:47.228
They have audio recording.
The federal has video recording,

07:15:47.663 --> 07:15:50.598
and the family court has
neither, and the expense that

07:15:52.234 --> 07:15:54.234
goes along with getting the

07:15:55.470 --> 07:15:57.470
transcription that could be

07:15:57.906 --> 07:15:59.906
easily falsified, doctored, any

07:16:00.476 --> 07:16:02.476
of the above, they're incredibly

07:16:02.644 --> 07:16:04.644
difficult to get.

07:16:06.915 --> 07:16:09.150
Transcripts are expensive.
, and courts don't want to give

07:16:09.251 --> 07:16:12.119
them up.
It's really hard to get through

07:16:14.155 --> 07:16:16.155
to the court clerk and navigate

07:16:17.250 --> 07:16:19.600
the system to get your own
transcripts, and yet I have a

07:16:19.828 --> 07:16:22.310
phone in my hand where I can
make my own recording of my own

07:16:22.310 --> 07:16:24.365
case.
I'm not allowed to do that.

07:16:24.766 --> 07:16:27.100
They'll take it away from me if
I try to do that.

07:16:35.110 --> 07:16:37.110
That's insane.

07:16:37.279 --> 07:16:39.279
Given the increased calls from

07:16:39.481 --> 07:16:41.315
2019 to present regarding child
maltreatment, when you have a

07:16:42.500 --> 07:16:44.485
court system where third parties
are routinely encouraging

07:16:45.454 --> 07:16:47.988
parents to attack their child
rearing partners in order to

07:16:48.924 --> 07:16:51.358
gain an upper hand you can't
expect fear driven parents to

07:16:52.930 --> 07:16:54.295
not go after any resources
offered by the government that

07:16:54.763 --> 07:16:57.432
can take ensure protection from
an winner take all system.

07:16:57.599 --> 07:16:59.701
I think that's something that
really needs to be thought about

07:17:02.738 --> 07:17:04.738
here with any time that we're

07:17:06.174 --> 07:17:08.275
looking to provide resources and
funding, and I think in order to

07:17:10.780 --> 07:17:12.780
acquire that funding, those

07:17:14.650 --> 07:17:16.650
resources have to be either

07:17:16.652 --> 07:17:19.420
available to everybody or just
not exist.

07:17:23.425 --> 07:17:25.493
I think that the -- the
resources that are currently

07:17:26.394 --> 07:17:28.394
available are being used, people

07:17:28.464 --> 07:17:30.464
are making false statements,

07:17:30.966 --> 07:17:33.301
people are perjuring themselves,
people are blatantly lying so

07:17:33.636 --> 07:17:36.400
they can have these resources
available for them, so that they

07:17:36.405 --> 07:17:38.405
can have the upper hand, and I

07:17:38.474 --> 07:17:40.575
don't even blame them.
Hoe wouldn't want the upper hand

07:17:41.900 --> 07:17:43.811
when it comes to children,
having access to their
children.

07:17:50.520 --> 07:17:51.386
I mean, it's insanity.
Yeah.

07:17:53.220 --> 07:17:55.757
I'd like to see a future courts
prioritize helping our parents

07:17:56.291 --> 07:17:58.726
so they can raise healthy
children.
That can't happen until we

07:17:58.860 --> 07:18:01.395
change our view of parenthood
and understand in most cases

07:18:01.763 --> 07:18:03.763
parents should have right to

07:18:03.766 --> 07:18:05.667
have equal access to their
children with the exception, of

07:18:05.868 --> 07:18:07.868
course, of the parents who are

07:18:09.305 --> 07:18:11.440
deemed unwilling or unfit to
make ensure their presence in

07:18:11.440 --> 07:18:13.875
the process.
>> thank you.

07:18:13.876 --> 07:18:15.876
I really appreciate it.

07:18:16.578 --> 07:18:19.140
I would love to ask questions
but there's so much to unpack

07:18:19.140 --> 07:18:20.314
there.
>> there is.

07:18:22.819 --> 07:18:25.553
And my organization is has tried
reaching out to your office over

07:18:25.688 --> 07:18:28.390
the last three months.
I can now see why you guys have

07:18:28.390 --> 07:18:31.259
been so busy.
The amount of unpacking, like I

07:18:32.561 --> 07:18:34.561
said, you have to do just

07:18:34.897 --> 07:18:36.998
dealing with the acs part of
this is astronomical, and I

07:18:37.990 --> 07:18:39.668
appreciate the work that you
guys are doing to do this, but I

07:18:40.403 --> 07:18:43.271
would like in the future when
there is availability to be able

07:18:43.806 --> 07:18:46.241
to meet with you guys and talk
further on the subject.

07:18:49.144 --> 07:18:50.578
I'd also like to try to inter29
the 2 subjects.

07:18:53.820 --> 07:18:55.820
I know it feels like it's two

07:18:55.485 --> 07:18:57.485
separate matters but I think

07:18:58.454 --> 07:19:00.454
there's a lot of commonalities

07:19:01.157 --> 07:19:03.157
there with the way acs is

07:19:04.600 --> 07:19:06.861
operating and causing these
potential damages and also how

07:19:09.565 --> 07:19:11.766
family court is operating.
So I greatly appreciate that.

07:19:13.470 --> 07:19:16.138
>> I appreciate it.
We'll be looking at those two,

07:19:17.373 --> 07:19:19.373
just to tell you, any government

07:19:19.442 --> 07:19:21.743
system that is engaged in
childhood trauma, and I'm not

07:19:23.746 --> 07:19:25.880
pointing fingers, but any
government institution that is

07:19:27.383 --> 07:19:29.517
winding up, their actions are
perpetuating or causing more

07:19:29.618 --> 07:19:31.621
childhood trauma, we're going to
take a real look at.

07:19:31.621 --> 07:19:34.189
>> thank you so much.
>> thank you very much.
>> thanks for having me.

07:19:34.190 --> 07:19:36.190
>> thank you.

07:19:37.793 --> 07:19:39.793
[Applause]

07:19:40.863 --> 07:19:42.932
Finally last but not least,
MR. Malek.
How are you, sir?

07:19:42.932 --> 07:19:45.534
>> good.
I was last at the city council

07:19:45.534 --> 07:19:47.570
hearing.
There must be something to it.

07:19:47.570 --> 07:19:49.637
>> really?
Completely -- 
>> yes.

07:19:49.806 --> 07:19:51.806
>> thanks for being so patient.

07:19:52.575 --> 07:19:55.277
>> sure, sure.
The first thing I'd like to ask

07:19:55.812 --> 07:19:57.579
is is there anyone left here
from acs?

07:19:58.547 --> 07:20:00.415
>> I know that they were
watching all day.

07:20:02.170 --> 07:20:03.451
I know cfs.
So, yes.

07:20:04.486 --> 07:20:06.221
>> there is.
Okay.
All right.

07:20:08.291 --> 07:20:10.291
That's good to hear, but you

07:20:11.894 --> 07:20:13.894
know what really disappoints me

07:20:14.197 --> 07:20:16.197
is why didn't different david

07:20:16.265 --> 07:20:19.234
hansell stay and iy when spoke
with other people here they were

07:20:19.368 --> 07:20:21.503
upset about that too.
Wouldn't it be great for

07:20:21.770 --> 07:20:24.239
david -- 
>> do me a favor.

07:20:24.441 --> 07:20:26.942
if you could sit -- because
you're not on camera.

07:20:27.810 --> 07:20:30.279
It's a great shot of your shirt
but we want the rest of you.

07:20:32.448 --> 07:20:35.417
>> all right.
Wouldn't it be great for

07:20:37.253 --> 07:20:39.354
MR. Hansell to come here and
say, you know, I'm not here to

07:20:41.124 --> 07:20:43.124
tell you how right I am.

07:20:43.226 --> 07:20:45.828
I'm here to find out how wrong I
am.
And I'm going to be here from

07:20:48.898 --> 07:20:50.898
start to finish.

07:20:53.769 --> 07:20:55.769
Greet us, get to choice and know

07:20:56.172 --> 07:20:58.139
us and realize as a public
official that's he's supposed to

07:21:01.344 --> 07:21:03.344
be serving us.

07:21:05.848 --> 07:21:08.517
And in addition, are there any
judges here?

07:21:09.520 --> 07:21:11.520
I don't think so.

07:21:12.588 --> 07:21:15.223
No judges knew about this?
The problem that we have, and I

07:21:15.759 --> 07:21:17.759
brought this up at the city

07:21:19.863 --> 07:21:21.863
council hearing, is that you

07:21:22.432 --> 07:21:24.432
can't legislate morality.

07:21:24.434 --> 07:21:27.350
You can polish a lamborghini all
you with an, but if there's no

07:21:28.710 --> 07:21:30.710
engine under the hood, you can

07:21:30.439 --> 07:21:32.439
talk about all these fancy

07:21:32.709 --> 07:21:35.678
things, but when it comes down
to it, if you have to write a

07:21:39.416 --> 07:21:41.416
law to make acs tell someone

07:21:41.818 --> 07:21:43.818
their rights, you have to write

07:21:44.887 --> 07:21:47.689
a law to make me not steal
something from you right now?

07:21:48.124 --> 07:21:50.124
And if you did, would you want

07:21:50.827 --> 07:21:52.827
me in charge?

07:21:53.563 --> 07:21:55.798
The fish rots with their head
down one thing told city

07:21:56.233 --> 07:21:58.233
council, I told my friends, you

07:21:59.135 --> 07:22:00.369
know, you got to offend to
defend.

07:22:01.204 --> 07:22:03.204
If you're not offending someone,

07:22:04.173 --> 07:22:05.440
you're not defending, so start
offending.

07:22:07.760 --> 07:22:09.760
I told city council, I said,

07:22:09.790 --> 07:22:12.140
everyone here is criticizing
manhattan special victims,

07:22:12.682 --> 07:22:14.682
they're not spending enough time

07:22:15.619 --> 07:22:17.619
with the victims or the people

07:22:18.521 --> 07:22:20.521
that come in.

07:22:25.696 --> 07:22:27.931
[Inaudible]
Aren't you doing the same
thing?

07:22:27.931 --> 07:22:30.733
>> with the clock?
>> no, no, not you.

07:22:31.835 --> 07:22:34.436
I was talking to them.
>> hypothey thecly.

07:22:35.205 --> 07:22:37.873
>> not hypothetically.
With them you are being very,

07:22:39.800 --> 07:22:41.910
very kind and judicious with the
clock almost like there's no
clock.

07:22:42.880 --> 07:22:44.847
With them it's more like -- it's
held to it.

07:22:47.250 --> 07:22:49.885
So I said to them, I said, look,
on your serving us and we're
here.

07:22:50.520 --> 07:22:52.520
If you want to police to give

07:22:53.790 --> 07:22:56.458
their time and you're here
you're serving the public, then

07:22:56.493 --> 07:22:58.493
why are you putting that clock

07:22:58.928 --> 07:23:01.564
up there?
And I put that to them, and I

07:23:03.133 --> 07:23:05.133
think it made a lot of sense to

07:23:05.469 --> 07:23:07.469
them that we need people that

07:23:09.940 --> 07:23:12.775
hear and that are public
servants and do what they do for

07:23:14.644 --> 07:23:16.644
a living for the right reason.

07:23:16.779 --> 07:23:18.815
If you have to write a law to
make someone tellen someone

07:23:19.616 --> 07:23:22.585
their rights, if I was david
hansell I would say, hey,

07:23:23.120 --> 07:23:25.120
andrew, today, today I'm going

07:23:25.555 --> 07:23:28.457
to tell all my workers today you
read everyone their rights
rights.

07:23:28.658 --> 07:23:30.658
You can write the law but it's

07:23:30.894 --> 07:23:32.894
going to be done today as far as

07:23:33.296 --> 07:23:35.799
everyone is to be read your
writes.
You're so right.
I'm sorry.

07:23:35.799 --> 07:23:37.867
It's going to be done today.
Why doesn't that happen?

07:23:38.936 --> 07:23:41.537
So if you don't have the
right -- the fish rots from the
head down.

07:23:42.673 --> 07:23:45.141
If I try to tell the council -- 
what I tried to tell the council

07:23:46.109 --> 07:23:47.543
is what example are you
showing?

07:23:48.111 --> 07:23:50.747
And this is something that I
learned.
It was really great in the sco

07:23:50.747 --> 07:23:53.182
parenting program.
The importance of being a role

07:23:54.840 --> 07:23:55.985
model, and we all hear about it
but we don't realize the

07:23:56.954 --> 07:23:59.188
importance of it, is that if
you're someone in authority, you

07:24:00.157 --> 07:24:02.157
are a role model, and if you are

07:24:02.292 --> 07:24:04.292
not an exemplary role model,

07:24:07.964 --> 07:24:09.964
you're not going to have clem

07:24:10.101 --> 07:24:12.869
exemplary role models
independent underneath.
You so when hansell walks out,

07:24:13.170 --> 07:24:15.505
now you know what you're got,
and that's the problem because

07:24:16.373 --> 07:24:18.508
until you have people like
yourself that clearly have put

07:24:20.777 --> 07:24:23.120
in a tremendous amount of
effort, your focused for the

07:24:24.414 --> 07:24:26.414
whole day, you're going to be

07:24:28.819 --> 07:24:30.819
spinning your wheels.

07:24:33.230 --> 07:24:35.792
So I twain to make that I want
to make that point.
That's the core.

07:24:36.260 --> 07:24:38.127
But you've got to have people on
top in management.

07:24:38.328 --> 07:24:40.796
Even in any business that you
have, if you do not have top

07:24:42.699 --> 07:24:45.668
people running the business,
then the business is not going
to run right.

07:24:47.838 --> 07:24:50.373
You can write all the rules and
regulations.
If you have people at the top

07:24:50.908 --> 07:24:53.109
messing it up, it's gone.
The business is dead.

07:24:54.110 --> 07:24:56.412
Let's move on from there because
you got to point.

07:24:56.947 --> 07:24:58.947
I'd also like to discuss the

07:25:00.650 --> 07:25:03.486
issue of judicial immunity
because -- goodbye, meg.

07:25:04.121 --> 07:25:06.121
You're the best.

07:25:06.624 --> 07:25:09.559
She's grabbing a train.
Thanks, meg.
>> I bring up these things

07:25:10.961 --> 07:25:13.596
because, andrew, you can work as
hard as you want and these are

07:25:14.932 --> 07:25:16.999
things that will sabotage up.
That will sabotage you is

07:25:17.501 --> 07:25:19.501
someone coming in and they come

07:25:20.505 --> 07:25:23.206
out and do something else.
It's called judicial immunity.

07:25:23.274 --> 07:25:25.975
I don't know if you're a lawyer
but I would think you are.
>> I am not.

07:25:26.677 --> 07:25:28.745
>> you're not.
All right.

07:25:31.715 --> 07:25:33.715
E. Judicial immunity, a judge in

07:25:33.884 --> 07:25:36.419
the scope, when they're on the
stand and when they're handling

07:25:37.321 --> 07:25:39.321
the law and everything, judicial

07:25:40.910 --> 07:25:42.492
immunity means, and I've studied
this, is that as long as they

07:25:44.728 --> 07:25:47.196
are functioning within, like,
interpreting the law, whatever,

07:25:47.631 --> 07:25:49.631
they are immune.

07:25:50.734 --> 07:25:52.734
They can ignore what you

07:25:53.337 --> 07:25:55.337
legislate.

07:25:55.607 --> 07:25:57.607
If you don't address that, you

07:26:01.312 --> 07:26:03.312
have your second problem because

07:26:03.314 --> 07:26:06.216
if there's no -- absolutely
power.
You know this because you're

07:26:06.884 --> 07:26:09.553
probably as old as I am.
Who knows.
Maybe I'm older.

07:26:09.553 --> 07:26:11.621
>> I got it.
I got it.

07:26:13.291 --> 07:26:15.291
>> a little bit of dye, right?

07:26:18.262 --> 07:26:19.562
But, anyway, you know, if -- all
right.

07:26:20.364 --> 07:26:23.333
There's a term I learned in
school that's called absolutely

07:26:23.634 --> 07:26:25.634
power corrupts absolutely, so if

07:26:25.836 --> 07:26:28.671
you don't have someone above the
judges to say, you can't do

07:26:29.106 --> 07:26:31.308
that, then you're pretty much
wasting your time.

07:26:31.409 --> 07:26:33.276
That's problem number two.
All right.

07:26:36.130 --> 07:26:38.348
Now, I can -- now we've got -- I
will the you about problem

07:26:39.183 --> 07:26:41.951
number three, which
unfortunately I've experienced.
Someone there to defendant these

07:26:42.386 --> 07:26:44.386
judges in family court.

07:26:44.388 --> 07:26:47.156
and I've experienced it
personally as a pro se in

07:26:47.458 --> 07:26:49.458
federal court.

07:26:51.996 --> 07:26:54.564
Guess who is the fed for federal
judges?
Would you believe me as a pro se

07:26:55.700 --> 07:26:57.700
to go up against xi xi wang as

07:26:58.436 --> 07:27:00.270
the attorney general to come up
against the federal judge?

07:27:02.806 --> 07:27:04.974
Do you think that xi xi james
had commie in concern for what

07:27:08.713 --> 07:27:10.847
the judge did and didn't do?
No.
These judges, we're immune.

07:27:11.480 --> 07:27:12.816
You can't do this.
They're immune.

07:27:14.510 --> 07:27:16.386
Not what they did and didn't
do.
They are immune.

07:27:17.988 --> 07:27:19.988
Now, something about me is -- 

07:27:22.293 --> 07:27:25.162
about my background, okay,
mississippi private investigator

07:27:25.897 --> 07:27:28.232
investigator, notary public,
process server, a lot of

07:27:28.233 --> 07:27:30.233
different things.

07:27:32.690 --> 07:27:34.690
I've done some investigation.

07:27:35.573 --> 07:27:37.573
Leticia james, what she's doing

07:27:38.576 --> 07:27:40.576
is she's protecting the judges

07:27:41.450 --> 07:27:43.213
by day and then litigating in
front of them by night.

07:27:45.783 --> 07:27:47.783
What I found out, if you go on

07:27:49.120 --> 07:27:51.120
leticia amos linkedin page is

07:27:51.289 --> 07:27:53.123
that she's associated with
stutman, stut minnesota and

07:27:54.910 --> 07:27:56.392
licht end stine, an advocate.
They are referred to as a

07:27:57.829 --> 07:27:59.829
boutique family law firm,

07:27:59.998 --> 07:28:02.866
boutique means high dollar
value, boutique family law firm

07:28:03.301 --> 07:28:05.969
who lilt gates in front of
family court judges.

07:28:06.170 --> 07:28:08.271
So isn't this great.
Now judges have immunity and

07:28:09.730 --> 07:28:11.730
james is going to defend the

07:28:12.410 --> 07:28:14.410
judges who she then litigates in

07:28:14.846 --> 07:28:16.846
front of.

07:28:17.248 --> 07:28:19.583
I mean, how does this -- so you
see how this works.

07:28:20.652 --> 07:28:22.853
I protect you from your
misconduct and then I come

07:28:23.154 --> 07:28:25.122
around the back door and I
litigate in front of you, and,

07:28:25.456 --> 07:28:27.858
of course, I am going to win,
right?
And this is part of the

07:28:28.292 --> 07:28:31.270
corruption that has gone right
up to james, which is why I

07:28:33.899 --> 07:28:36.000
bought the domain name of -- 
looking for james.Com.

07:28:36.701 --> 07:28:38.769
I'm sorry.
I'm off topic.

07:28:40.271 --> 07:28:41.738
>> this is not helpful for me.
Please.

07:28:42.507 --> 07:28:45.342
>> so we get into the
different -- I'll move forward.
>> I appreciate it.

07:28:47.211 --> 07:28:49.211
>> so we're getting into things

07:28:49.881 --> 07:28:51.749
that could happen or things that
are happening are experiences

07:28:54.919 --> 07:28:56.987
that erode your work, and this
is a problem.

07:28:59.524 --> 07:29:01.792
Now, let me just move on to at
this point my shirt.

07:29:04.162 --> 07:29:06.162
My shirt is very special, and

07:29:06.597 --> 07:29:08.597
what's very special about this

07:29:09.901 --> 07:29:11.168
shirt is that this started with
me.

07:29:13.338 --> 07:29:15.873
How did it start with you?
Because I was at visitation with

07:29:16.207 --> 07:29:19.760
my daughter.
My daughter was injured.

07:29:19.477 --> 07:29:21.477
And she told me what had

07:29:22.113 --> 07:29:24.113
happened to her, that john

07:29:24.683 --> 07:29:26.683
doe -- I can't say it, right? -- 

07:29:26.785 --> 07:29:28.785
john doe had thrown her, and I

07:29:29.855 --> 07:29:32.723
was recording this, and I have
on tape where acs was not

07:29:33.124 --> 07:29:35.125
concerned about my daughter,
they were concerned about

07:29:35.860 --> 07:29:38.729
whether or not I was recording,
and the supervisor is telling

07:29:39.464 --> 07:29:41.798
the acs worker to take away my
phone.

07:29:42.501 --> 07:29:45.236
I have that on tape.
Then my daughter said again what

07:29:46.438 --> 07:29:48.438
happened to her.

07:29:49.107 --> 07:29:50.507
And I called 911 for my
daughter.

07:29:52.143 --> 07:29:55.780
What do you think acs did when I
called 911?

07:29:55.847 --> 07:29:57.847
in reference to a child that's

07:29:58.516 --> 07:30:00.918
under their jurisdiction.
I know I've got so much.

07:30:02.200 --> 07:30:04.889
So what they did was they went
to court to stop visitation with

07:30:07.192 --> 07:30:09.192
my daughter to punish me for

07:30:09.961 --> 07:30:12.729
calling 911 and for recording,
and they requested of the judge

07:30:12.797 --> 07:30:15.632
that there be an order that I
not be able to record to have

07:30:16.267 --> 07:30:18.636
further evidence of my
daughter's abuse.

07:30:20.239 --> 07:30:22.239
I'm not kidding you.

07:30:22.274 --> 07:30:24.809
I have the order to show cause
which I can send to you.

07:30:27.112 --> 07:30:28.846
So the judge then -- could I say
her name or no?

07:30:29.647 --> 07:30:31.647
>> I would prefer you didn't.

07:30:32.768 --> 07:30:34.351
>> the judge then obligees and
obligees even more so.

07:30:35.187 --> 07:30:37.188
You know what the judge did?
No recording.

07:30:37.389 --> 07:30:39.657
No note taking.
You can't write anything.

07:30:39.858 --> 07:30:42.930
And no witnesses.
One, two, three.

07:30:43.395 --> 07:30:45.996
I had that order, and it's up on
my website.
Didn't stop there.

07:30:46.698 --> 07:30:48.999
Another order, no unnecessary
complaints or reports.

07:30:50.869 --> 07:30:52.869
Don't go to the police, either.

07:30:55.607 --> 07:30:58.442
I have that order, too.
Acs then decides, after acs goes

07:30:59.478 --> 07:31:02.346
to the judge for the order,
that's where this sign came

07:31:03.215 --> 07:31:05.215
from, that they decided to put

07:31:06.685 --> 07:31:09.219
up this sign at 19 rogers and
1274 bedford and over at their

07:31:10.389 --> 07:31:13.358
location in linden to stop me
and all parents to have any

07:31:16.610 --> 07:31:18.610
evidence of their child's abuse

07:31:20.265 --> 07:31:22.265
as well as, as well as the

07:31:22.767 --> 07:31:24.680
parent's conduct a supervised
visitation.

07:31:24.803 --> 07:31:27.738
So if afscme has a case against
you, being a guardian as they

07:31:31.210 --> 07:31:33.210
manufactured against me, then

07:31:33.312 --> 07:31:35.413
they can claim that your
behavior, what you did is

07:31:37.916 --> 07:31:39.916
anything they wish to state, so

07:31:39.918 --> 07:31:42.686
that they wish to state, and you
have no ability to produce in

07:31:44.220 --> 07:31:46.591
you evidence in your defense.
As a matter of fact, one day

07:31:47.193 --> 07:31:49.193
they had said that I was rolling

07:31:51.263 --> 07:31:53.263
around the floor hysterical and

07:31:53.999 --> 07:31:55.999
parents couldn't come into the

07:31:56.702 --> 07:31:59.300
room and I was having some type
of lunacy attack.

07:31:59.400 --> 07:32:01.400
How do you defend against this

07:32:01.640 --> 07:32:03.640
if you don't have any evidence

07:32:03.776 --> 07:32:05.443
to evidence defend against it?
So part of what I would ask you

07:32:06.679 --> 07:32:08.679
is make sure there is

07:32:10.282 --> 07:32:12.282
transparency so that they cannot

07:32:12.918 --> 07:32:14.918
do that to parents where if they

07:32:16.688 --> 07:32:19.123
are the petitioner, they can
guarantee themselves to win

07:32:20.626 --> 07:32:22.626
every single time because they

07:32:25.231 --> 07:32:27.565
can say you can do anything in
visitation and they just won

07:32:27.833 --> 07:32:30.268
their case.
Now, this actually -- I'm going

07:32:31.360 --> 07:32:33.771
to till something that is
shocking.
It gets worse than this and I

07:32:34.873 --> 07:32:36.873
can send you this document.

07:32:37.176 --> 07:32:39.176
So you MAY say to me, all right,

07:32:39.712 --> 07:32:41.712
so what if the judges follow the

07:32:42.915 --> 07:32:44.915
laws that we write and then like

07:32:44.950 --> 07:32:46.950
acs -- so that acs will then

07:32:47.386 --> 07:32:50.221
follow it, too, right?
Well, I can forward you an order

07:32:52.658 --> 07:32:54.658
to show cause where acs actually

07:32:57.363 --> 07:32:59.431
put in writing, "we are an
executive enterprise and you

07:33:00.766 --> 07:33:02.766
can't order us to do anything.

07:33:03.535 --> 07:33:06.700
You can't write an order on us
because we are an executive

07:33:07.372 --> 07:33:09.907
enterprise and we do what we
want to do," and they actually

07:33:09.975 --> 07:33:12.276
put this in writing.
I like this one.

07:33:13.579 --> 07:33:16.548
Bogus case law, which didn't
even fit -- to back up what they

07:33:18.317 --> 07:33:20.317
were saying.

07:33:21.487 --> 07:33:23.487
So here we have that issue, too,

07:33:24.220 --> 07:33:26.220
where acs has taken the position

07:33:26.910 --> 07:33:28.910
of you can't -- you can't even

07:33:28.360 --> 07:33:30.829
write a law that a judge can
abide by to bound them to do

07:33:32.331 --> 07:33:34.331
anything.

07:33:34.500 --> 07:33:36.301
The insanity of this.
And -- 

07:33:37.200 --> 07:33:39.200
>> by the way, I don't want to

07:33:39.400 --> 07:33:41.400
add to this, but it gets worse.

07:33:41.400 --> 07:33:43.400
I got it.

07:33:44.900 --> 07:33:46.100
I am having my own experience
now.
>> you are.

07:33:46.780 --> 07:33:48.780
Okay.

07:33:48.147 --> 07:33:50.147
All right.

07:33:50.883 --> 07:33:52.883
Now let me tell you something as

07:33:55.955 --> 07:33:58.189
I move forward here.
Acs, which no one here was

07:33:58.324 --> 07:34:01.920
brought up yet but I have been
the victim of this, is that acs

07:34:02.327 --> 07:34:04.762
new york city is taking part of
part in false background checks

07:34:07.333 --> 07:34:09.701
on parents with their
investigative consultants.

07:34:10.536 --> 07:34:12.536
Such consultants claim to be

07:34:13.706 --> 07:34:15.774
able to access e-justice
records without fingerprints and

07:34:16.942 --> 07:34:19.143
go backwards in time on
e-court's records.

07:34:21.547 --> 07:34:23.982
Such investigation is a fraud.
E-courts is present into the

07:34:25.852 --> 07:34:28.487
future and e-justice is for
fingerprints only unless you are

07:34:29.689 --> 07:34:31.689
nypd and even then without

07:34:32.240 --> 07:34:34.240
fingerprints it isn't accurate.

07:34:34.393 --> 07:34:36.393
>> those consultant get nypd

07:34:36.428 --> 07:34:39.970
stat to us view those records?
>> no.

07:34:41.568 --> 07:34:43.569
No, they don't.
And lisa -- I think I could

07:34:43.569 --> 07:34:45.771
say -- all right.
I'll just -- 
>> I appreciate it.

07:34:45.771 --> 07:34:47.771
Thank you.

07:34:49.208 --> 07:34:51.208
>> lmc, manager of e-justice

07:34:52.878 --> 07:34:55.514
has assured me neither acs for
nor their investigative

07:34:55.514 --> 07:34:57.716
consultants obtain records from
them, that they can't do that,

07:34:57.851 --> 07:34:59.785
so anything that they're
claiming that they're saying

07:35:00.320 --> 07:35:02.588
that they're able to have these
records is a fraud.

07:35:04.570 --> 07:35:06.570
So what we have here is not just

07:35:06.125 --> 07:35:09.940
fraught upon parents but fraught
upon new york city to fire

07:35:09.395 --> 07:35:11.930
investigations that are total
frauds e I will have request ent

07:35:12.932 --> 07:35:14.932
to tare ott card readings.

07:35:15.669 --> 07:35:17.780
Now, me being an investigate in
mississippi, analyzes cibelli if

07:35:19.239 --> 07:35:21.273
he's still here and victoria
navarro, I think they would

07:35:21.708 --> 07:35:24.142
attest to the fact that they had
heard on tape that I recorded

07:35:25.978 --> 07:35:27.978
that they were very excited in

07:35:29.110 --> 07:35:31.110
hiring me and saying that, oh,

07:35:31.885 --> 07:35:33.519
yeah, you're one of the
hard-to-recruit investigators,

07:35:35.155 --> 07:35:37.356
and they wanted to take me in as
far as being in mississippi, and

07:35:42.462 --> 07:35:44.462
if you look on indeed as far as

07:35:44.764 --> 07:35:46.764
their job posting, they are

07:35:46.799 --> 07:35:49.267
hiring PIs from throughout the
united states of america so if

07:35:50.503 --> 07:35:52.471
you try to run from them, they
will track you down in any state

07:35:52.839 --> 07:35:55.774
in the united states of america
like this.
Isn't it true that you heard

07:35:56.409 --> 07:35:58.409
them on tape actually saying

07:35:58.878 --> 07:36:01.380
that, oh, yeah, you're hard to
recruit.
They like me, right?

07:36:01.447 --> 07:36:03.949
You heard that.
I'm telling you the truth as far

07:36:06.953 --> 07:36:08.854
as how far and wide they go.
Now, okay.

07:36:10.724 --> 07:36:12.625
In my case what they did to me,
which it could be possibly

07:36:13.260 --> 07:36:15.260
because I'm a target to them

07:36:15.361 --> 07:36:17.996
because of the acs complaints -- 
I don't know, but they target a

07:36:19.599 --> 07:36:21.320
lot of people so that's just
hypothetical.

07:36:21.667 --> 07:36:24.436
I don't know if they've gone
after me worse.

07:36:24.504 --> 07:36:26.405
From hawaiiered ha of the
stories, probably not.

07:36:28.410 --> 07:36:30.900
If my case such corrupt
consultants reported to that it

07:36:30.944 --> 07:36:32.944
an extensive criminal background

07:36:33.313 --> 07:36:35.313
and pled guilty and they plainly

07:36:35.582 --> 07:36:38.483
found such records in akron and
e-justice.
No such records existed.

07:36:39.510 --> 07:36:41.354
They used false records to
obtain an order of protection

07:36:41.354 --> 07:36:43.656
against me.
Acs did not serve it.

07:36:43.957 --> 07:36:46.192
The judge did not inform me.
And then they tried to have me

07:36:46.793 --> 07:36:49.950
arrested for trying to visit by
daughter at the end of her

07:36:49.950 --> 07:36:52.640
school day.
On such day my daughter was

07:36:53.299 --> 07:36:56.168
absent, and ongoing currents
just as with her step-brother

07:36:57.103 --> 07:36:59.471
who went to school 11 times in
six months claiming tock sick.

07:37:00.240 --> 07:37:02.240
My child's mother henceforth

07:37:02.809 --> 07:37:05.678
takes the action if one child is
supposedly sick, she keeps the

07:37:06.313 --> 07:37:08.580
other child home as well so both
can get sick.

07:37:09.849 --> 07:37:11.849
So that was part of the federal

07:37:13.186 --> 07:37:15.921
case that the attorney general
filed against against judges

07:37:18.959 --> 07:37:20.959
because the judges knew what was

07:37:21.928 --> 07:37:24.730
going on here, that I was
clearly set nip fabricated a

07:37:25.665 --> 07:37:27.933
false criminal background, used
it had to get an order of

07:37:29.636 --> 07:37:32.505
protection and then they don't
allow me to see my on a child.

07:37:32.505 --> 07:37:34.372
The evil of this.
It was amazing.

07:37:37.311 --> 07:37:39.945
Now, as I just go forward, I'm
just -- some of this I'm sharing

07:37:40.470 --> 07:37:42.615
a little bit as far as how
severe and corrupt acs is as far

07:37:44.117 --> 07:37:46.985
as child abuse and I feared my
daughter dying.

07:37:50.256 --> 07:37:52.625
Now, here it says -- all right.
As a matter of fact, I was meads

07:37:54.394 --> 07:37:56.394
to see now how my daughter and

07:37:56.396 --> 07:37:58.396
step-brother had equal dates

07:37:59.499 --> 07:38:01.499
absent from school and acs

07:38:02.369 --> 07:38:05.700
caught the mother who had a son
11-year-old old in the same
bed.

07:38:06.406 --> 07:38:09.700
I lost my daughter to amore hoo
has has a two time article 20

07:38:10.644 --> 07:38:13.412
abuse of her son who was then
henceforth placed placed with

07:38:14.481 --> 07:38:16.481
his father.

07:38:17.170 --> 07:38:19.752
14-year-old john doe was sent to
live twos in 2018 with my

07:38:20.530 --> 07:38:22.530
three-year-old daughter after

07:38:22.555 --> 07:38:24.623
high was leased for battling his
father unconscious and died

07:38:25.525 --> 07:38:28.361
shortly after and his mother
said he had it coming to him.

07:38:28.696 --> 07:38:31.464
Before his father died he did
not want to continue with the

07:38:31.832 --> 07:38:33.832
prosecution of his son and the

07:38:34.701 --> 07:38:36.435
son got away about with
manslaughter.

07:38:37.838 --> 07:38:39.838
The son who killed his father

07:38:40.573 --> 07:38:42.573
and mother a known abuser told

07:38:42.642 --> 07:38:44.944
acs I was verbally abusive to
them and threatened them.

07:38:45.679 --> 07:38:48.648
The petition is neither signed
or notarized, either.

07:38:49.817 --> 07:38:51.817
The with this acs decided to

07:38:52.853 --> 07:38:55.821
place my 35-pound three-year-old
with a mother and her 250-pound

07:38:57.390 --> 07:38:58.691
son, the business abuser and the
killer.

07:38:59.559 --> 07:39:02.161
If net result is the following
as written in the final report

07:39:02.596 --> 07:39:04.596
from melissa friedberg.

07:39:06.533 --> 07:39:08.835
This is a piece of the work.
15-year-old -- please.

07:39:11.838 --> 07:39:14.707
This is my child.
15-year-old subject child is

07:39:15.709 --> 07:39:18.111
diagnosed with bipolar disorder
and as a history of being

07:39:18.111 --> 07:39:20.111
extremely violent.

07:39:20.748 --> 07:39:22.748
On or about 12/31/2017 subject

07:39:22.950 --> 07:39:25.510
child was arrested after
assaulting father to the point

07:39:26.353 --> 07:39:28.621
of unconsciousness the father is
now currently deceased.

07:39:28.956 --> 07:39:30.956
The child was hospitalized in

07:39:31.792 --> 07:39:34.460
MAY of 2018 for psychiatric
reasons.
Biological mother is aware of

07:39:34.895 --> 07:39:36.962
and failed to follow through
with the recommended medical and

07:39:37.640 --> 07:39:39.399
mental health treatment.
The subject child has no

07:39:39.967 --> 07:39:41.967
received his medication for con

07:39:41.969 --> 07:39:44.304
for recommended counseling since
SEPTEMBER 20 un18.

07:39:45.139 --> 07:39:47.140
As a result subject child has
shown physical violence toward

07:39:47.841 --> 07:39:50.309
the five-year-old subject child
which is my daughter some time

07:39:52.120 --> 07:39:54.981
in FEBRUARY 2019 the 15-year-old
threw the sub child forcing her

07:39:55.983 --> 07:39:57.417
to bite her tongue which bled as
a result.

07:39:58.652 --> 07:40:01.454
In MARCH of 2019 five-year-old
subject child sustained an

07:40:02.189 --> 07:40:04.290
unexplained red mark and
scratches other cheek.

07:40:05.325 --> 07:40:07.325
In JUNE 2019 five-year-old

07:40:07.327 --> 07:40:09.228
subject child sustained a 1-1/2
inch laceration to the back of

07:40:09.529 --> 07:40:11.529
her head.

07:40:13.301 --> 07:40:15.301
On AUGUST 9, 2019 the

07:40:15.836 --> 07:40:18.705
15-year-old child threw the
five-year-old child resulting in
force result in head pain.

07:40:19.640 --> 07:40:21.640
Five-year-old child wa open

07:40:21.775 --> 07:40:23.775
hospitalized on OCTOBER 11, 2018

07:40:23.844 --> 07:40:25.845
after being thrown by
15-year-old subject child,

07:40:27.214 --> 07:40:29.214
further details unknown known.

07:40:30.418 --> 07:40:32.385
On OCTOBER 18, 2018 biological
mother held five-year-old sub

07:40:33.788 --> 07:40:35.788
child down and loudly

07:40:35.790 --> 07:40:37.992
15-year-old to bite the child's
toenail off causing to it

07:40:37.992 --> 07:40:39.992
bleed.

07:40:40.394 --> 07:40:42.394
Five-year-old child has

07:40:43.230 --> 07:40:45.230
sustained injuries that are

07:40:45.399 --> 07:40:47.299
inconsistent with the explains.
Unexplained bruising around her

07:40:49.300 --> 07:40:51.300
neck consist of with me go

07:40:51.500 --> 07:40:53.500
choked.

07:40:53.708 --> 07:40:56.242
In 2018 five-year-old child
sustained unexplained bruising

07:40:56.977 --> 07:40:58.977
to her left check.

07:40:59.279 --> 07:41:01.279
The biological mother refused

07:41:01.915 --> 07:41:03.950
to -- biological mother is aware
of 15-year-old child violent and

07:41:04.419 --> 07:41:06.520
out of control behavior and
continues.

07:41:06.621 --> 07:41:08.622
To allow him around the
five-year-old subject child,

07:41:09.991 --> 07:41:11.991
which is my daughter.

07:41:12.393 --> 07:41:14.393
Oblige child has a histories of

07:41:14.728 --> 07:41:17.300
being verbally abusive.
Due to the miles an hour abuse,

07:41:18.666 --> 07:41:21.534
five-year-old subject child has
been exhibiting anxious behavior

07:41:21.836 --> 07:41:23.836
and acts fearful of the

07:41:25.940 --> 07:41:27.940
biological mother and the

07:41:28.709 --> 07:41:30.709
15-year-old subject child.

07:41:30.778 --> 07:41:32.778
Now, would you believe after all

07:41:33.614 --> 07:41:35.614
this -- right? -- acs decides to

07:41:35.849 --> 07:41:37.849
amend their petition and claim

07:41:39.530 --> 07:41:41.530
that all my calls to the fcr

07:41:41.155 --> 07:41:43.323
were false and meant to harasses
the mother.

07:41:43.858 --> 07:41:45.858
They indicated on two of my

07:41:47.662 --> 07:41:49.662
calls evidence with ocfs, scr

07:41:50.531 --> 07:41:52.531
forrionic illicit neglect

07:41:56.103 --> 07:41:58.338
against the mother, but even
still, they tamed petition and

07:41:58.840 --> 07:42:00.840
they have a cause of action

07:42:00.875 --> 07:42:03.610
saying every one of my calls is
false.

07:42:04.478 --> 07:42:06.478
Meanwhile my daughter -- now we

07:42:06.781 --> 07:42:08.781
have a mother who is a two-time

07:42:08.816 --> 07:42:10.816
ashley 10 loss are of a parent

07:42:10.885 --> 07:42:13.753
for abuse of her son now being
education neglect and chronic

07:42:14.289 --> 07:42:16.289
illness raising my daughter with

07:42:16.958 --> 07:42:18.993
a killer while I have no
criminal background, acs

07:42:18.993 --> 07:42:21.280
background either and I have
stripped of my parental rights.

07:42:21.280 --> 07:42:23.280
Why?

07:42:23.931 --> 07:42:26.633
Because I dared to report acs to
ocfs upon those who are under

07:42:27.368 --> 07:42:30.103
their jurisdiction and make they
are precious workers look bad.

07:42:32.707 --> 07:42:34.707
Not to get ocfs off the hook

07:42:36.744 --> 07:42:38.744
here, ocfs also filed upon me,

07:42:38.813 --> 07:42:40.813
intended to go to trial against

07:42:41.249 --> 07:42:42.782
me next week and I I don't have
discovery yet.

07:42:44.685 --> 07:42:46.820
Neither will pletlet me tell if
I'm defending on the original

07:42:47.788 --> 07:42:49.788
petition or the amended one.

07:42:50.959 --> 07:42:52.959
So, you know, we have a

07:42:53.261 --> 07:42:55.261
situation here that it's

07:42:56.664 --> 07:42:58.664
unbelievable, and just so you

07:42:59.634 --> 07:43:01.634
know, I move forward over here,

07:43:02.470 --> 07:43:04.470
i want to fry and move this

07:43:04.872 --> 07:43:07.173
forward -- try and move this
forward western but it is very

07:43:08.143 --> 07:43:10.110
clear that it's one thing about
reporting injury tie child, but

07:43:10.745 --> 07:43:13.480
if you report a injury to a
child while that child is under

07:43:14.349 --> 07:43:17.217
acs jurisdiction, that really
pisses them off because now they

07:43:20.154 --> 07:43:22.154
get in trouble for that, so -- 

07:43:22.423 --> 07:43:24.390
now, I'm moving this forward.
>> it's okay.

07:43:25.930 --> 07:43:27.228
By the way, I know it's been a
long day but we want to hear you

07:43:27.228 --> 07:43:29.496
in full.
>> thank you.

07:43:30.980 --> 07:43:32.980
That's very kind.

07:43:32.200 --> 07:43:34.200
Thank you.

07:43:34.268 --> 07:43:36.937
Okay.
So now, as far as what happens

07:43:37.972 --> 07:43:40.807
in acs court, I know there was a
claim that if you have a lawyer,

07:43:41.343 --> 07:43:43.343
70% I heard, you know, maybe

07:43:44.412 --> 07:43:46.412
that's a different borough but I

07:43:47.715 --> 07:43:49.715
can tell you without question

07:43:50.919 --> 07:43:53.200
that I was told by five
lawyers -- unfortunately I guess

07:43:54.288 --> 07:43:56.288
I should not name them, but I

07:43:57.558 --> 07:43:59.558
was told my five lawyers and one

07:43:59.861 --> 07:44:02.496
if I named his name he's known
by all other lawyers, and I

07:44:03.640 --> 07:44:05.532
received like quicksand, just
ask you them what you want and

07:44:05.600 --> 07:44:08.435
you have no chance.
There has to be a political

07:44:08.670 --> 07:44:10.871
change and even in federal court
you will not previle.

07:44:11.720 --> 07:44:13.273
If you do everything right and
she does everything wrong, I can

07:44:15.343 --> 07:44:17.511
get you your child back,
otherwise the judge has to do

07:44:18.146 --> 07:44:20.810
with the acs does or she will
lose her job.

07:44:20.582 --> 07:44:22.582
Another told me you can't

07:44:24.850 --> 07:44:26.193
prevail in court against acs.
So all right.

07:44:27.355 --> 07:44:30.123
And then I wrote over here as
well, you know, what's a problem

07:44:31.959 --> 07:44:34.361
is that in the 7th amendment
any claim over $20 you could

07:44:37.699 --> 07:44:40.201
have a injury a jury.
Aren't our children worth more

07:44:40.936 --> 07:44:43.170
than 20?
Dollars we have one judge, no

07:44:44.506 --> 07:44:46.626
jury and no crime to even be
committed and rights terminated

07:44:46.875 --> 07:44:48.875
and never see your child again

07:44:48.876 --> 07:44:50.477
as evidenced between my daughter
and I.

07:44:52.114 --> 07:44:54.615
I haven't seen her in a year and
a half.

07:44:55.784 --> 07:44:57.784
I'll move forward over here.

07:44:57.953 --> 07:44:59.186
>> del him about the criminal
charges.

07:45:00.210 --> 07:45:02.323
>> I think I brought up the
criminal charges like the

07:45:02.991 --> 07:45:05.626
false -- like the false
criminal?
I brought that up.

07:45:06.961 --> 07:45:08.961
I brought that up.

07:45:09.131 --> 07:45:11.599
>> what were they?
>> oh, oh, I'm sorry.

07:45:15.237 --> 07:45:17.237
The false criminal charges was

07:45:17.706 --> 07:45:19.706
auto stripping, burglary, all

07:45:22.977 --> 07:45:24.778
sorts of really weird stuff on a
day -- thank you, victoria,

07:45:26.470 --> 07:45:28.583
thank you -- on a day that I
actually had visitation.

07:45:29.651 --> 07:45:32.520
>> this is a panel.
I didn't know it.
This is a panel.

07:45:34.990 --> 07:45:36.990
>> with my daughter.

07:45:37.826 --> 07:45:39.826
And I pled guilty on 4/19/20 and

07:45:40.361 --> 07:45:43.960
that was the last day I saw my
daughter so that was their way

07:45:43.398 --> 07:45:45.398
to convict me.

07:45:45.601 --> 07:45:47.601
In it was also a day they filed

07:45:48.203 --> 07:45:50.338
an order to show cause to stop
seeing my daughter because I was

07:45:52.574 --> 07:45:54.574
making the calls to acr.

07:45:55.100 --> 07:45:57.100
The day in 2020 was the day they

07:45:57.512 --> 07:45:59.512
tried to put me in jail for

07:45:59.614 --> 07:46:02.216
false calls to the scr so they
made up the false criminal

07:46:02.351 --> 07:46:04.351
background for that day, and

07:46:06.221 --> 07:46:08.756
then my day of conviction on
4/19/20 when they said I pled

07:46:10.492 --> 07:46:13.360
guilty to these auto automatic
crimes that has the last day I

07:46:13.929 --> 07:46:16.664
saw my daughter.
that was how they convicted me.

07:46:18.701 --> 07:46:20.701
>> possession of particularly.

07:46:21.470 --> 07:46:22.837
>> that's right, possession of
burglary tools.

07:46:24.139 --> 07:46:26.139
It's crazy.

07:46:26.408 --> 07:46:28.276
It's just -- so I think pretty
much I'm finished.

07:46:29.911 --> 07:46:31.579
I'd just like to say something
additional about the situation

07:46:33.615 --> 07:46:35.615
is that when the 7.7 responded

07:46:35.617 --> 07:46:37.552
on OCTOBER 11, they took my
daughter to the hospital, and

07:46:39.121 --> 07:46:41.121
what you will see on my website

07:46:42.391 --> 07:46:45.259
is that the 7.7, the sergeant
never investigated the crime and

07:46:46.461 --> 07:46:49.230
it was shut down in 24 hours.
He closed the investigation to

07:46:50.980 --> 07:46:52.933
protect acs.
And it wasn't picked up until a

07:46:53.435 --> 07:46:55.435
month and a half later by the

07:46:55.738 --> 07:46:57.738
brooklyn child abuse squad.

07:46:57.907 --> 07:47:00.541
And they never contacted me for
any evidence.

07:47:02.945 --> 07:47:04.945
As a matter of fact, when I

07:47:07.416 --> 07:47:10.170
found out about it, I saw a
child abuse squad, I went to

07:47:10.218 --> 07:47:12.218
toronto and I said, hey, I have

07:47:12.254 --> 07:47:14.789
this evidence.
You know, I have my daughter's

07:47:15.124 --> 07:47:17.124
recorded statements on this.

07:47:18.761 --> 07:47:21.596
And he said to me, we can't
accept -- we only work with

07:47:21.663 --> 07:47:23.663
government evidence.

07:47:23.899 --> 07:47:26.300
We can only accept government
evidence.
I'm not kidding up.

07:47:28.336 --> 07:47:30.972
And I have this in writing from
defect girardi as well.

07:47:31.207 --> 07:47:33.541
We can't accept your evidence
because you're a parent, and we

07:47:34.376 --> 07:47:36.577
were told by eric gonzalez, da
of brooklyn, that parents'

07:47:37.680 --> 07:47:39.680
evidence can be a fraud, so we

07:47:42.217 --> 07:47:45.152
don't accept it, so we have to
only work with our evidence that

07:47:45.453 --> 07:47:47.656
we can structure.
All right?

07:47:48.357 --> 07:47:50.357
And I have the documents that

07:47:50.526 --> 07:47:52.526
actually back up what I'm -- you

07:47:53.462 --> 07:47:55.462
know what I'm saying.

07:47:56.598 --> 07:47:58.598
so it's just simply, it's

07:47:59.668 --> 07:48:02.136
unbelievable what has occurred.
And one last thing before I go

07:48:03.739 --> 07:48:05.273
here is that there was an
investigation -- this will

07:48:06.108 --> 07:48:07.976
really shock you and it's on my
website -- there was one

07:48:08.744 --> 07:48:10.744
investigation that came up as

07:48:12.681 --> 07:48:14.681
being inconclusive.

07:48:15.584 --> 07:48:17.618
Inconclusive with nypd, special
victims.

07:48:18.620 --> 07:48:20.620
Well, would you believe acs held

07:48:21.357 --> 07:48:23.592
the the evidence of how,
withheld the evidence of how

07:48:25.294 --> 07:48:28.263
that crime happened when my
daughter said, jay hit her,

07:48:28.931 --> 07:48:31.633
would you believe my daughter
was questioned in front of her

07:48:32.101 --> 07:48:35.200
attackers?
Would you question a child in

07:48:35.370 --> 07:48:38.105
front of her attackers, and she
had the courage, my little girl,

07:48:40.576 --> 07:48:43.245
to say, "he hit me," and they
left my daughter with them.

07:48:44.313 --> 07:48:46.381
And my child's mother called her
a liar.

07:48:48.384 --> 07:48:51.352
So the next day she was brought
to manhattan special victims in
this investigation, and that

07:48:52.870 --> 07:48:55.560
investigation came up incolon
inclusive because my daughter

07:48:55.457 --> 07:48:57.457
wouldn't say what hit her and

07:48:58.940 --> 07:49:00.940
how it hit her or who hit her.

07:49:00.960 --> 07:49:02.960
So check this out.

07:49:02.898 --> 07:49:04.898
Would you believe two years and

07:49:06.735 --> 07:49:08.735
one month later, one month

07:49:10.390 --> 07:49:11.572
afteree a statute of limitations
expires.

07:49:12.241 --> 07:49:14.241
Acs decides to provide to me,

07:49:14.377 --> 07:49:16.445
which I have the evidence on my
website, their investigation

07:49:16.879 --> 07:49:18.879
materials as far as how my

07:49:19.480 --> 07:49:21.480
daughter was injured.

07:49:22.318 --> 07:49:24.318
And withheld it until they

07:49:24.854 --> 07:49:26.854
coveredy themselves.

07:49:27.560 --> 07:49:29.560
And then I took that and I went

07:49:29.491 --> 07:49:31.491
to manhattan special victims and

07:49:31.594 --> 07:49:33.729
said, guys, I got it.
They withheld this.

07:49:36.466 --> 07:49:39.434
Move forward.
zero.
Nothing.

07:49:39.835 --> 07:49:42.700
They're all part of it.
The city covers up for the

07:49:42.371 --> 07:49:44.371
city.

07:49:44.773 --> 07:49:46.942
So that's pretty much -- I mean
and, of course, I can keep

07:49:46.942 --> 07:49:49.145
going.
I'm going to put all this up on

07:49:49.145 --> 07:49:51.313
my website.
But I think it's enough, and I

07:49:51.848 --> 07:49:54.149
don't know how someone like
yourself is actually going to

07:49:54.250 --> 07:49:56.885
assist through all this but I
think a great thing 6 assistive

07:49:57.853 --> 07:49:59.853
through all this but it seems

07:50:01.123 --> 07:50:03.424
like you have company that we
also want to help you come up

07:50:03.726 --> 07:50:05.726
with solutions rather than

07:50:06.229 --> 07:50:09.980
saying, come on, andrew, fix
this, that we want to try to

07:50:09.165 --> 07:50:11.165
come up with solutions and work

07:50:13.360 --> 07:50:15.705
with you, and I just want to say
that, you know, we aren't

07:50:15.705 --> 07:50:17.806
necessarily child protection
specialists but it seems a lot

07:50:19.408 --> 07:50:21.408
of us have a lot of good heart

07:50:21.677 --> 07:50:22.911
ask and we'd make some great acs
workers.

07:50:24.470 --> 07:50:26.282
At least we've got heart.
We've got heart and we've got

07:50:26.282 --> 07:50:28.282
morality.

07:50:28.918 --> 07:50:30.953
I think we need more of people
like that in the system because

07:50:31.654 --> 07:50:33.755
if you don't have good people in
anything, in government,

07:50:35.570 --> 07:50:37.927
anything, you could have all the
laws in the world, it don't make

07:50:37.927 --> 07:50:39.627
a difference.
And that said -- 

07:50:39.995 --> 07:50:41.995
>> I appreciate it.

07:50:42.599 --> 07:50:45.534
Just a great way to end.
[Applause]
>> yes.

07:50:46.803 --> 07:50:49.538
Thank you to everybody who
testified.
It was brutal.

07:50:51.541 --> 07:50:52.774
It's a way to end this on a good
note.

07:50:53.910 --> 07:50:55.910
And I just want to thank my two

07:50:56.345 --> 07:50:58.813
guys, alexa and kevin.
[Applause]

07:50:59.683 --> 07:51:02.418
They're awesome.
And to all of the assembly staff

07:51:02.952 --> 07:51:04.952
that put this together.

07:51:05.288 --> 07:51:07.523
Steve, thank you to nighta, to
everybody here, I really

07:51:07.523 --> 07:51:09.523
appreciate it.

07:51:11.260 --> 07:51:13.260
And on a brutal topic, we got

07:51:13.863 --> 07:51:15.863
into this in a pretty good way,

07:51:16.967 --> 07:51:19.168
and there's tons of this to pour
through and unpack, and I

07:51:19.803 --> 07:51:22.237
learned a lot, and I want to
thank all of you personally.

07:51:22.539 --> 07:51:24.539
Telling those stories must have

07:51:25.740 --> 07:51:27.709
been brutal.
And I'm really grateful to each

07:51:28.277 --> 07:51:31.113
of you for telling your
stories.
Thank you, everybody.

07:51:32.140 --> 07:51:34.140
Get home safe.